 Poster: A snowHead
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FAO Snowheads that are BASI qualified or have knowledge of....BASI GAP courses.
I have recently been having a look into BASI GAP courses as a future possibility for meself. Has anyone got their BASI 2 (former BASI 3) qualification by going on a GAP and can make any recommendations for any of the courses (either run by BASI itself or its EBP) in particular? Would consider Europe, USA or Canada but preferably Europe.
I see Snoworks do a GAP course in the Autumn months in Tignes, the advantage of that being able to qualify to BASI 2 level before the start of the main ski season. Also based on their/Phil Smith's reputation it is sure to be fab, and having the Snoworks i-skiing courses to shadow for the 70 hrs Ski School Shadowing is a real plus too.
However I am thinking that an alternative GAP course running from January-March might be better as, being in the "normal" ski season there will be more than just the glacier and a bit besides available to ski on, I've not been skiing to Tignes in the Autumn months before so I can't say what it is like (no offence intended if I am wrong) but obviously there will be a lot more skiing available especially for during free ski/practice times in a resort with a course running January-March?
I have also heard that the Warren Smith GAP course in Verbier has received good reviews. Side note-how come Snoworks and Warren Smith aren't listed on the BASI website as available courses incidentally? ICE Val d'Isere and New Gen are the listed EBP for Europe.
What do those SH that are in the know think?
Also-question! After BASI 2 obtained, how much time and money does it take to reach ISIA and then ISTD after that? Out of interest.
Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
Also-question! After BASI 2 obtained, how much time and money does it take to reach ISIA and then ISTD after that? Out of interest. |
For the ISIA, the last time I added it up I'm fairly sure it was well over £5k in courses (including accommodation etc.) but excluding extra training and any resit(s) but based on living in the UK. Just checking on the web site there are 8 to pass.
For the ISTD you will need to pass your speed test, which will probably require lots of race training which will add up, unless you are already a handy GS racer.
I'll drop you a PM with an alternative to the gap year option.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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david@mediacopy,
Thanks for PM and I have responded.
Ok, so lets say the average GAP course to get to BASI 2 costs £7,000 from what I have seen, some are around £6,000 some are over £7,000. Plus another £7,000 to allow for accomodation/flights/extra training and resits based on living in the UK to get to ISIA, plus what sort of money to train and pass Eurotest for ISTD? £5000 again? So thats a total of £19,000 erring on the side of caution. Do you reckon a total of £20,000 should cover the lot? Or more like £25,000? Also whats the quickest time you (or anyone else) has known anyone get from ordinary skier to ISTD assuming there are zero time or money constraints?
Thanks for the info so far, much appreciated.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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VolklAttivaS5, I did a BASI Gap course a few years back in Pila with Interski. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
However, looking back I would rather have done it a different way, just doing the Trainee (now level 1) and Instructor (now level 2) courses during my uni holidays and spent my Gap year post uni working at a ski school and training for my ISIA. I was already pretty much at the level needed for Level 2 at the start of the course, so although all the training on the Gap course was useful, I didn't need it to pass. Not knowing much about Basi or instructor training before, i thought you needed to be a ski god to pass, when the reality is you don't.
So before signing up for a Gap course I'd first ask why you want to do it? If it's to get your instructor qualifications quickly and you're already near that level there are quicker ways. If on the otherhand you need to do a lot of training to get to that level, or you just want to spend a season training to be an instructor, Gap year courses are great.
The second part of your question - depends how good you are! Some people (i.e. ex national team racers) whizz through within a couple of years. Most mere mortals will take a number of years full time training, particularly for the Eurotest (part of ISTD) if you don't have a racing background. Cost of courses from start to finish approx £10k, excluding training, resits etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VolklAttivaS5, Don't forget to factor in living expenses. If you do the Warren Smith Verbier course you'll need to budget £100 or so a day to get off your face on champagne and coke in the farinet every nite 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd say zero to ISTD, going the individual course rather than GAP route would cost about £30,000. If you're a good skier I really can't see the point of going the GAP route. All you're doing is lining someone's pockets.
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The Gap courses build in the shadowing that you need to do between the L1 and L2 courses. Getting this in another way in such a short time is difficult.
A friend is currently doing the gap course run by Dave Beattie (of Skivolution, Courcheval) and thinks it brilliant: http://www.mountainlodge.co.uk/
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Spyderman,
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I'd say zero to ISTD, going the individual course rather than GAP route would cost about £30,000.
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Sorry Spyderman how do you mean you'd say zero to ISTD, I don't get what you mean? Do you mean its better value to do the courses gradually through BASI at the various locations they offer ranging from Snowdomes for Level 1 and 2 to resorts in Europe eg Zermatt etc to do the whole hog gradually over a couple of years? And the whole lot from start to ISTD is £30,000?
RobW,
Yes I worked out that the 35 hours for Level 1 and another 35 hours for Level 2 would take a fair time doing it on dry slopes and snowdomes. Plus being in resort abroad is an entirely different experience. Your mate.....who has gone with Skivolution...what age is he i.e is he a uni gapper or a career break bloke scenario. Also what level was he when he went, intermediate level or what?
Thank you everybody! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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VolklAttivaS5, Zero -starting as a good skier, do the L1 at a UK slope £375 shadow for free, L2 £500 for course, I'd say £2000 all in for the 2 weeks, accommodation, lift pass, getting there, membership fees, etc.
A very good friend who is ISTD Trainer assessed the total cost for him to get to ISTD from the start was £30,000, doing it by individual courses.
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RobW,
See my message above asking about your mate but also.....thank you so much for your post alerting me to Mountain Lodge. They look like just what I'm after and I might not have seen them online had you not said. So thanks very much.
Emma
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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VolklAttivaS5, you pose a very big question.. before it can be replied to in detail some more info is required.
How many weeks have you skied?
what do you want to do once you finish your L2?
Why does a GAP course appeal to you?
If you want to teach skiing, where do you want to teach?
do you want to teach part or full time?
etc.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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VolklAttivaS5,
I’ve posted my answers to your PM on the forum so others can benefit.
The Gap course I did was run directly by BASI. The entry requirement was 16 weeks skiing on snow, be able to link turns in the fall line on black runs and you had to attend a pre-selection day on a dry slope. There was one person on my course who did not meet the standard, however at the selection day he begged and pleaded to be allowed to do it. He did struggle a bit but he trained his back bottom off throughout the course (he’d be on the lift at 8am every Sunday whilst others were still in bed / having a day off) and he managed to pass. He was very sporty – black belt and instructor in several martial arts, so had excellent balance.
As I understand it, Gap courses run by other providers may not be so strict in the pre-selection criteria or require you to attend a selection day, others may have more info on this.
If I’m reading your PM correctly you say you can carve on black runs in the fall line?! If this is true after 7 weeks skiing then you must be exceptionally talented, as for sure this is not something I can do, and you are not expected to be able to do this until ISTD level!
To answer your question re quicker way to qualify: If you look at the BASI website you will see you can just book on the individual courses – 5 day Level 1 Instructor course, then hours shadowing ski school, then 10 day Level 2 Instructor course. Level 1 + shadowing qualifies you to teach on artificial slopes in the UK and can be undertaken on said slopes. Level 2 qualifies you to teach in the mountains, in certain countries.
If you are doing a course with Snoworks next month I would ask their view on your skiing ability, i.e. if you’re good enough to qualify the quick way, or if you’d need more training by doing a Gap year course before you’d be at the required level.
To answer your questions on ISIA / ISTD teaching level. ISTD is BASI trainer level (a trainer is a an appointment, not a level), but ISIAs will often also do a lot of instructor training, and teach higher end skiing. Instructor level tend to teach more beginners and intermediates, but this isn’t set in stone and really depends on the instructor’s individual experience, where they work etc. You cannot teach in France just with ISIA (suggest you search forum if you want more detailed info on this) and yes you must get the Eurotest to pass the ISTD. I am a Level 2 Instructor, but currently working towards my ISIA.
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VolklAttivaS5, Where is your nearest artificial slope ? Why not spend some time there, you can do BASI L1, or SnowSport England CI course, and find out what teaching is like before spending huge sums on a GAP course.
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You know it makes sense.
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beanie1,
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If I’m reading your PM correctly you say you can carve on black runs in the fall line?! If this is true after 7 weeks skiing then you must be exceptionally talented, as for sure this is not something I can do, and you are not expected to be able to do this until ISTD level!
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 Lol. Yes if only I could I'd be very happy with that and would indeed be some kind of miracle skier! I did put "short turns close to the fall line-ok" (but not necessarily on black runs though, didn't put that as was trying to summarise as much as poss as my PM to you was pretty long!) and that was very close to the carving bit on a pisted smooth black run so perhaps thats where the misunderstanding has occurred and the two have been linked together.
I haven't kept my PM to you so couldn't re-read it so sorry if I have misled you. I don't know the name of the black run I was thinking of but it was in Courchevel-could have been that it used to be a red and has been reclassified to a black perhaps. Who knows but it was great fun though from memory, I enjoyed it.  Of course as we all know then the grading of runs changes with conditions and from resort to resort so it can all get a bit woolly when trying to give an example.
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To answer your question re quicker way to qualify: If you look at the BASI website you will see you can just book on the individual courses – 5 day Level 1 Instructor course, then hours shadowing ski school, then 10 day Level 2 Instructor course. Level 1 + shadowing qualifies you to teach on artificial slopes in the UK and can be undertaken on said slopes. Level 2 qualifies you to teach in the mountains, in certain countries
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Yep have had a nosy at that before now.
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If you are doing a course with Snoworks next month I would ask their view on your skiing ability, i.e. if you’re good enough to qualify the quick way, or if you’d need more training by doing a Gap year course before you’d be at the required level.
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Yeah that is the plan. I have already asked them about their Autumn GAP anyway so it will be a prime opportunity to find out if and how and whether it is definitely what I want to do.
Thanks everyone I've got more than enough things to have a think about now....cheers.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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On the ICE Val d'Isere GAP course notes it says
A BASI qualification allows you to teach anywhere in the world, including Europe, New
Zealand and the Americas. Whilst you have to be a BASI ISIA to work in France, you can
work elsewhere with a BASI level 2 Instructor.
Is this not right or not up to date from what you said in your post earlier on beanie1?
Also-forgot to ask in earlier post-are you working as a Level 2 instructor abroad at the moment? If so then where?
Thanks beanie1,
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Poster: A snowHead
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VolklAttivaS5, there are other very long threads that outline what's needed to work in France, suggest you do a search for them.
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Also-forgot to ask in earlier post-are you working as a Level 2 instructor abroad at the moment? If so then where?
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No, I work part time in the UK. However I do know many people with L2 Instructor that are working full time in Switzerland, Austria, America, Canada, NZ and Australia, so plenty of opportunities to work abroad with this qualification.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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VolklAttivaS5, would be worth going to your local dry slope or snowdome as ski, suggests to both get an honest appraisal of your skiing as well as some training to CI level to see if you actually enjoy teaching people how to ski...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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VolklAttivaS5, If you do a search on this site, you'll find plenty of discussion about what a BASI qualification will let you do. To be clear the L2 qualification is what used to called Grade 3 or Ski instructor. ISIA - Grade 2 and ISTD Grade 1.
If you are looking at a career in ski teaching, you should be aiming for ISTD. The Speed Test is best attempted when you are young 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ski,
Thanks, yes have just been having a look at the past discussions on what's needed for France and having a read of those.
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The Speed Test is best attempted when you are young
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I've just turned 29 am pretty fit and pretty strong but could be a whole lot fitter and stronger at the same time......am I too old for Eurotest?
Ah it will all come out in the wash....! Another option instead of the spending the money for GAP would be to get and ski everywhere I can throughout the world....I see on a previous post that someone wanted to ski lots and improve their skiing ability without necessarily wanting to become an instructor and do the qualification and the likes of the Snoworks Adventure courses/holidays was mentioned to Chile/Japan and the like, although these sorts of trips are nearly the same money as for GAP and shorter in ski time although clearly wonderful and unique experiences. I have seen those before so going on stuff like that could be an option, become a "seasoned" skier with lots of experience in different places/conditions and then if I want do the L1/L2/ISIA courses later on and gradually through BASI direct instead of GAP I can.
Although as you say to get to ISTD and pass the Eurotest then it must surely get harder as the years go by.
Thanks ski,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VolklAttivaS5, One thing to bear in mind is that the instructor courses will spend a lot of time teaching you how to snow plough and how to teach, as well as working on your own performance skiing. So you need to be interested in teaching, even if you don't intend to do it as a career.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
| A BASI qualification allows you to teach anywhere in the world, including Europe, New Zealand and the Americas. Whilst you have to be a BASI ISIA to work in France, you can work elsewhere with a BASI level 2 Instructor. |
Whilst undoubtedly true, the thing to consider is how much you'll get paid unless you get an ISTD.
Few ISIAs I know do anything other than break even (Warren Smith being a notable exception!). Not all of them even manage to break even.
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beanie1, VolklAttivaS5, One thing to bear in mind is that the instructor courses will spend a lot of time teaching you how to snow plough and how to teach, as well as working on your own performance skiing. So you need to be interested in teaching, even if you don't intend to do it as a career.
Yes beanie1, you are very right on that score.
PhillipStanton,
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Whilst undoubtedly true, the thing to consider is how much you'll get paid unless you get an ISTD.
Few ISIAs I know do anything other than break even (Warren Smith being a notable exception!). Not all of them even manage to break even
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Again that is also a consideration. The crux of it all is that you have to want to teach skiing rather than just wanting to go ski for 10 weeks and meet people. I have given it all a great deal of thought and, yes, I want to improve my own skiing, yes, I would enjoy the GAP experience of being in a resort for 10 or so weeks, yes it would be nice to have an extra qualification at the end of it but whether I would use that qualification and/or pursue it further is questionable. Also, my last post says it all really......
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Another option instead of the spending the money for GAP would be to get and ski everywhere I can throughout the world....I see on a previous post that someone wanted to ski lots and improve their skiing ability without necessarily wanting to become an instructor and do the qualification and the likes of the Snoworks Adventure courses/holidays was mentioned to Chile/Japan and the like, although these sorts of trips are nearly the same money as for GAP and shorter in ski time although clearly wonderful and unique experiences. I have seen those before so going on stuff like that could be an option, become a "seasoned" skier with lots of experience in different places/conditions and then if I want do the L1/L2/ISIA courses later on and gradually through BASI direct instead of GAP I can.
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Conclusion......based on all of that and the above I reckon the best thing to do is to leave the qualifications alone and ski ski ski anywhere I can using the £7000 at least I would have spent to do this!!!
Thank you very much for all of your contributions and information as I have been umming and ahing over whether to commit to a GAP/qualifications or not for this last couple of months. Thrashing it out on this forum has helped me realise what I want to do. Thanks and kind regards.
Which leads me onto my next post-where?! I have put it under Resorts though, not Bend Ze Knees!
Emma
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VolklAttivaS5, I haven't done a Gap course but just wonder if it might be true that you'd have to use your £7000 very carefully indeed to get more skiing and better instruction by taking multiple trips than you would from a 10 week Gap course. My entirely conjectural opinion is you got it right first time. beanie1's situation was different - she was possibly a far more accomplished skier when she embarked on her Gap course so her feeling that she should've just taken the 2 week Alpine Instructor Level 2 course then spent her gap time training for ISIA sounds right for her. However in all honesty the Level 1 isn't terribly exacting - I'm pretty sure once you'd been shown what you had to demo you'd pass it without a blink. The Level 2 is certainly achievable without doing a season, however you need to be able to:
On a blue piste perform: rounded flowing turns of different radii, linked long radius turns leaving 2 cleanly carved lines throughout each entire turn, skidded short radius turns down a defined corridor.
And rather less consistently to:
On bumps less than 25 degrees: perform continuous linked rhythmic turns not necessarily in the fall line.
In variable snow or off piste less than 25 degrees: perform in a variety of conditions (e.g. powder, heavy snow & ice) rounded flowing turns of different radii.
On steeps of at least 25 degrees: perform rounded linked turns of different radii demonstrating the ability to control speed.
So a degree of experience and technical ability is helpful. Now I know a 6 week skier who can almost but not quite do all these (what holds her back is lack of experience in variable snow and bumps). I must say I wouldn't have believed it otherwise. However she's young sporty and has had some guided sessions at the MK Snozone slope as well.
As an aside, it's my observation that the large majority of skiers, even some highly experienced and otherwise highly competent ones, who haven't worked on that particular aspect of their skiing cannot do the blue piste clean carve arc to arc thing. Even if they think they can!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges,
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it's my observation that the large majority of skiers, even some highly experienced and otherwise highly competent ones, who haven't worked on that particular aspect of their skiing cannot do the blue piste clean carve arc to arc thing. Even if they think they can!
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Yes I agree.
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VolklAttivaS5, I haven't done a Gap course but just wonder if it might be true that you'd have to use your £7000 very carefully indeed to get more skiing and better instruction by taking multiple trips than you would from a 10 week Gap course. My entirely conjectural opinion is you got it right first time. beanie1's situation was different - she was possibly a far more accomplished skier when she embarked on her Gap course so her feeling that she should've just taken the 2 week Alpine Instructor Level 2 course then spent her gap time training for ISIA sounds right for her. However in all honesty the Level 1 isn't terribly exacting - I'm pretty sure once you'd been shown what you had to demo you'd pass it without a blink. The Level 2 is certainly achievable without doing a season, however you need to be able to:
On a blue piste perform: rounded flowing turns of different radii, linked long radius turns leaving 2 cleanly carved lines throughout each entire turn, skidded short radius turns down a defined corridor.
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Didn't know what you had to do exactly for L2, thanks for sharing that. Some of the things you wrote ring a bell actually as they have had us practising some of that on the courses I have been on lately. ie turns of different radii, 2 cleaned carved lines etc etc. Some people do find doing that sort of thing difficult, even if they have been skiing a long time.
As for the £7000, yeah sure it would be very difficult indeed to get 10 weeks of skiing and tuition of the same calibre out of that £7000 only just from normal trips. I agree and am aware of that, its more so about putting the £7000 at least towards going to new places I've not been to and skiing in many more locations that I have done to date before committing to doing the quals. Besides the Snoworks Chile/Argentina trip would use up a good proportion of that £7000 anyway for 2 and a bit weeks skiing-although it would be a phenomenal experience with fantastic tuition as well at the same time.
Conclusion:- enjoy my recreational skiing and try and get round as many ski destinations and experiences (with or without tuition. mostly with hopefully) as much as possible for the rest of this season and next ski season 2009. Reconsider GAP/pursuing qualifications the direct route once satisfied with destinations visited in either 2010 or 2011! Might be ready for it then. Decision made. Thanks all 
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
RobW,
Your mate.....who has gone with Skivolution...what age is he i.e is he a uni gapper or a career break bloke scenario. Also what level was he when he went, intermediate level or what?
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Between A-levels and uni. He's a good technical skier, races at national level on artificial slopes in the UK (has about 70 seed points) and has done some races on snow as well. I've little doubt he'll pass.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As well as general skiing around the world to improve your own standards you could when in Canada enrole in their CSIA Level 1. Basic teaching course that will at least allow you to gain a qualification and more importanlty see what teaching is all about. Cost is around £350 and can be taken a various venues around Canada.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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garywilk,
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| various venues around Canada. |
and Andorra
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Just heard that James came back yesterday from his gap with Skivolution/Mountain Lodge. He passed. With straight 6s. 
His dad says he's also gained 1 stone - of course this is pure muscle....
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You know it makes sense.
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RobW, great news, well done to your mate. Thanks for telling me about Mountain Lodge RobW, -I have been in contact with Dave Morris of Mountain Lodge to see about their course and to find out all of the information I want to know in case I do decide to go for it next year. He mentioned in his email earlier today that everybody had passed their BASI 2. Great news!
By the way can you ask your mate what he thought of the chalet they put them in and the food? It sounds great from what I've gathered-I prefer the catered chalet idea rather than having to go out every night for food, especially after being out skiing and concentrating all day, I think I would just want to crash out and food in the chalet is a big bonus. Did he like the catered chalet rather than having to go out for meals? I've heard other views that the same weekly menu in a chalet can get a bit "samey" and its nice to go out to different restaurants for the meals and that. Personally I think that you wouldn't really care that it was the same menu each week if you're knackered and glad to have some good food for your evening meal.
Thanks
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I posted a thread recently about the Warren Smith Ski Academy. All 30 students passed the Level 2 exam a couple of weeks ago and over 15 of them are now working in Verbier for Ecole de Ski Verbier which is the local Swiss national ski school. There's a link on Warren's website to the course, http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/gap-year-ski-instructor-course.htm
I know Warren himself was really happy with the new BASI Level 1 + Level 2 system. There's also great feedback about the BASI Trainers that came to Verbier to host the Level 1 and Level 2 courses.
Warren's course is similar to most with all the coaching weeks, off piste mountain satefy course, first aid, biomechanics, ski physiology etc etc but most people say that Warren's course has more actually coaching for moguls, off piste terrain, steeps. Anyhow, give the web link a go and I'll try to find out from the GAP students this weekend when the video clip is going up online on the Academy website.
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Poster: A snowHead
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£7000 --- that will easily cover a LONG season's road trip if you're canny. Think of the possibilities...
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FAQ
