 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ordhan, you need the [/url] moved to at the end of the url, or if you want the url invisible and the text in blue then do [url= at the start of the url and ] at the end of it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There is an interest statistics hidden here.
The skiclub.co.uk report indicated 10% of the reported accidents were collisons.
In another earlier thread on piste safety and use of helmet there was a report suggesting 5% of reported incidences in Swiss resorts involved more than one party.
The probability of a piste user getting hit by another piste user is therefore around 5 to 10 %, at least in Swiss and resorts investigated by Skiclub.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I tweaked Ordhans, post a tiny bit 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saikee,
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The probability of a piste user getting hit by another piste user is therefore around 5 to 10 %, at least in Swiss and resorts investigated by Skiclub
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Er no that's not what the statistics say, what they say is that if you are in a reported accident that there is between a 5 and 10% chance that the accident will involve at least one other person, which is not the same as saying there is between a 1in 10 and 1 in 20 chance of being hit by someone else whilst on the piste.
To put this into context I must have spent the best part of 80+ weeks skiing over a period of 36 years and I've only ever been in collisions twice, both times where someone else skiied into me, in neither case was anyone injured other than maybe a minor bruise so neither was reported
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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D G Orf,
As a freerider you may have a job to encounter another piste user while you are free riding off piste. Your case doesn't count!
In my experience most collisons, as idicated by the report, take place in run involving beginners and piste users at the early stage of their experience. It takes two to tango. The piste user running into another is someone who can't ski or snowboard very well. The one who gets collided into is also someone who hasn't have enough skill to escape the danger or do evasive action. This means the collisons are mostly in beginners areas, green and blue slopes.
Collision accidents require the presence of piste users so going to a popular French resort at schoold mid term breaks has different level of risk than going at off peak times to a small Swiss resort that no tour operator is interested. In many small skiing resorts in the Alps where there are only 3 to 4 chairlifts and 5 to 6 runs. A piste user seldom get hit because most people there are locals and not the irresponsible foreign imports.
My suggestion is if one is involved in an accident then there is 1/10 or 1/20 chance that one got hit by another piste user. People like you and I of course would avoid getting involved with an accident in the first place by managing the factors within our control.
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D G Orf,
I don't see the difference. Are you trying to split hair here.
I said it is a 5 to 10% probability to get hit. So what you are saying is there may be more than 5 to 10% chance of getting hit but only those get reported as "accidents", presumably serious enough and possibly requiring medical attention, is just 5 to 10%.
Do you want the collisons that caused a fright/scare but no injury to be inculded in my statistics?
The reason I pointed out the statistics because I am of the opinion of collisions are invariably speed related and bring about by people unable to control their own speed.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 9-03-08 18:39; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My wife got hit several times as a beginner by out of control skiers/snowboarders. Fortunately none of the collisions resulted in serious injury and none were reported. A recent French survey by insurance companies reported that 20% of claims were a result of collisions with other piste users and they made a point of stating that most of the serious injuries i.e. broken bones and serious head injuries were a direct result of such collisions. There was a surprisingly small number of collisions with static objects (although 6 of those were fatal) and most of the single party accidents involved relatively minor injuries.
saikee, IMO collisions are not fundamentally speed related. They are related to ability and attitude toward other piste users. Excessive speed may be a by-product of such attitude. In other words a a highly skilled skier can travel safely at a much higher speed. If speed was the main factor, such skiers would be in the highest risk group, which I don't believe they are.
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Am I the only one here that's thinking 'Why don't they look where they are going'
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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uktrailmonster & Odin,
I modified my statement to qualify the collisons are brought about by people who can't control their speed.
May be it is only an illusion but I always thought if a piste user is doing a speed he/she can control then he/she can steer out of an impending collison. The one being collided into can also have time to react favourably and avoid the crash if he/she is slow enough.
Isn't it true when one is out of control then by default one is likely going at a speed beyond one's ability, no matter how slow one is skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, What you wrote
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The probability of a piste user getting hit by another piste user is therefore around 5 to 10 %, at least in Swiss and resorts investigated by Skiclub.
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What you are saying in the above is that for anyone skiing there is between a 1 in 20 and 1 in 10 chance of being hit in an accident, that plainly is not the case if it were hospitals arround ski resorts would be swamped with injuries e.g Wengen (just one resort in the Bernese Oberland) has a capacity for 4,000+ guests which would mean on average 300 guests each week would be hit.
The statistics are related to the likelyhood of someone else being involved if you have an accident, not the likelyhood of people having accidents in general. Your original comment does not make the distinction between the two events.
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| saikee wrote: |
There is an interest statistics hidden here.
The skiclub.co.uk report indicated 10% of the reported accidents were collisons.
In another earlier thread on piste safety and use of helmet there was a report suggesting 5% of reported incidences in Swiss resorts involved more than one party. |
Read it again, they pulled a figure out the air, it's not sourced or attributed, as such you should assume they made it up. I didn't suggest anything at all earlier, the figure is 5% for Switzerland, that's the official measured figured.
I assume from the rest of the article it's their usual cut and paste journalism and that the report was plagiarised from "The Salt Lake City Tribune" and refers, if not to Park City, then to stations around SLC.
That appears to be a small sample size produces a figure of 10% isn't surprising, it's well within what we'd expect about local variability of data.
| saikee wrote: |
| The probability of a piste user getting hit by another piste user is therefore around 5 to 10 %, at least in Swiss and resorts investigated by Skiclub. |
That's a pretty comical use of figures  Both figures refer to proportion of accidents, not skier days and taking an average between them is just comical.
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You know it makes sense.
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| saikee wrote: |
D G Orf,
I don't see the difference. Are you trying to split hair here.
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It is a huge difference.
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I said it is a 5 to 10% probability to get hit. So what you are saying is there may be more than 5 to 10% chance of getting hit but only those get reported as "accidents", presumably serious enough and possibly requiring medical attention, is just 5 to 10%.
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You are saying that there is a 5-10% chance of being in an accident involvig another skier.
What you should be saying is that IF you are in an accident, then here is a 5-10% chance that accident will involve another skier.
And of course, that only involves reported accidents, which are mainly the ones where somebody is hurt enough to seek medical attntion. If you counted every non-injury fall as an "accident", then it would be far less than 5-10% of accidents that would involve collisions.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The statistics I put forward was related to reported accidents in two different sources. It has been taken out of context and in isolation. I was only making some sense out of it.
It seems SH are more interested in collisons not reported and those without injury which I would dismiss because there is no possibility to verify them.
Everything can be looked at relatively because the samples for non-reported accidents without injury can also be correspondingly large and will not remain static relative to collisons not reported and without injury.
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Poster: A snowHead
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saikee, Actually you missunderstand the point we're making.
Think of it like this say there is a 10% chance of any accident with a motor vehicle involving another vehicle, this does not mean that there is a 10% chance of anyone having an accident in a motor vehicle, it just means that IF you do have an accident then there is a 10% chance that someone else will be involved
Going back to skiing I'd say from experience that there is perhaps at most a 1% chance of anyone on a winter sports holiday having an accident that will require medical attention (and not all of these occur on the slopes) so at worst that means there is a 0.1% chance (10% of 1%) that you will have an accident on a winter sports holiday that will involve another person
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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saikee, you said:
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| The one who gets collided into is also someone who hasn't have enough skill to escape the danger or do evasive action. |
That really is an extraordinarily sweeping statement. Sure, you can often look around, be careful, etc. But to suggest that skilled skiers will not be collided with is nonsense. There have been several Snowheads reports of instructors being extremely badly injured in collisions. Our own
being one of them. And the skier jailed in the US for killing someone was also a highly skilled skier (which is why he was jailed).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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pam w,
I haven't got knocked so far. When I am aware piste users losing control or going at high speeds I slow down and try to stay away as far as possible. There is something one can do as well. May be to slow down and be aware of what is going on can be a skill. Many piste users take it being collided into is something they cannot avoid.
I happen to ski slower than my normal speed regularly because I accompany my wife and have load of time to see what is behind and around me while waiting for her. She relies on me for direction and I am always within her sight.
There is always exception to the rule. Skillful skiers/boarders can lose concentration or engage their attention elsewhere too.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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saikee,
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Skillful skiers/boarders can...engage their attention elsewhere too
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Like looking where they're going, for example!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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saikee, the fact that you haven't been knocked so far is completely irrelevant to this statistical discussion, frankly.
I stick to my point that it is nonsense to assert that skilful skiers will not be collided with, if they pay attention to what is happening around them. It is pretty insulting to suggest, as you seem to be doing, that any good skier who is injured by somebody colliding with them has only themselves to blame!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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In 1 week I had 1 collision - in lesson, one of my classmates behind me fell at the start of his turn (classic lesson snake distance), and got me in his fall. I was fine, apart from large bruise starting above ski boot - thank you boot! Also had 2 near misses. 1 was someone who'd fallen above me at very high speed on my first black (his speed not mine). His skis went 1 side of me, he went other. OH saw it happening and said the best thing for me to do at that moment was what I did - freeze still, admittedly not because of issue above. Other near miss was on a short steepish bit of red. I was going slowly and carefully as busy and a bit slushy. Italian woman nearly skied straight into me. She might have thought I was going to turn before I did, but I slightly caught an edge so had to unpressure ski so as not to fall. She was pretty grumpy with me - what was I supposed to do I was below and moving slowly and carefully - snowploughing/falling children below, so trying to judge turns that won't end up in them if they go wrong or right.
I think the best way not to cause any collisions (as skier above) is to make sure you've practiced an emergency stop - OH made me practice with warning to start off, then began to cut me up occasionally, just so I had to practice emergency stops - and also to assume that all around you are not particularly competent - same as defensive driving. Children scare me. OH also had his first collision - child skied straight into him from above and across without looking - he stopped so fast it was just a glancing blow.
I would have trouble evading a collision, I'm OK looking around when I'm traversing between turns, I look up and around to plan where I want to turn - no ice, no kids, noone flying past, but while actually turning I have to concentrate more on where next than what's above. Looking behind me would probably make me fall over.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Going back to skiing I'd say from experience that there is perhaps at most a 1% chance of anyone on a winter sports holiday having an accident that will require medical attention (and not all of these occur on the slopes) so at worst that means there is a 0.1% chance (10% of 1%) that you will have an accident on a winter sports holiday that will involve another person
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I reckon thats pretty high, when skiiing on snow or dry mat (i'm discounting my roller skiing on tarmac) i've had one accident that required medical treatment - i fell on the Sunnyside run at glenshee when i caught the tip of the ski in a drift and damaged a medial ligament in my knee. I still skiied again three weeks later on my week abroad. My only other accident which resulted in injury, though not needing treatment, was when I crashed into a snowfence at Glenshee and bruised my shoulder.
I've ski at least 15 days a year in Scotland for 11 years and have done ~15 weeks skiing abroad.
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Dave Horsley, like I said at worst, it's based on experience, mainly seeing how many people in a hotel have crutches/limbs in plaster or are hospitalsed, over the years this seems to work out to roughly one percent of the guests, of course some of those injuries will be down to pub antics or simply slipping off the pavement, in reality the chances of having an accident whilst on the piste that requires treatment is probably less than 0.5% but I was giving a worst case senario.
Personally I've been extremely fortunate and have never had a serious accident in 35 years of ski trips, the worst I've ever done is sprained an ankle a couple of times and got mild frostbite once 
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FAQ
It is not just beginners that have colisions over confident experts can get it wrong by thinking they will fit down a gap and not anticipating what the skier below is going to do.
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