 Poster: A snowHead
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My two children aged 13 and 11 were both recently measured for boots in Glasgow at a well known ski shop. My daughter was sold, or rather I was, a great pair of boots with footbeds. No reason given for the beds just that it would aid her skiing and general all round comfort. My son got same treatment but they did not have size of boots he required so he left with a pouting lip and a promise from us we would get him a pair asap.
Two weeks later whilst in Edinburgh at another well known ski shop he was measured by their boot fitter who immediately warned me of problems with my sons feet and strongly recommended I got him to a podiatrist. More details would test my spelling.
Now as both my son and daughters feet look the same I booked them both an appointment. The doc said my son requires off the shelf foot beds to correct alignment problems and needs to wear them at all times; but to my surprise my daughter has a far more serious complaint that requires purpose built insoles to correct her feet and hopefully stop long term damage.
We read a lot about experienced boot fitters but I am glad I went to Blues on Rose Street Edinburgh rather than back to a Glasgow Competitor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I too was told something similar and was sold "super feet" on that basis, whilst iin Tignes last year I was finding the new boots really uncomfortable so went to a local shop. They immediately identified that the super feet were not correct for my foot shape and sold me another brand off the shelf, so much better!!!. Anyway I think the morale of the story is to go to a boot fitter on recommendations of a reliable source (maybe an experienced snowhead) - Seems that they are not all equal.
Hope the new foot beds work out.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Children, Feet and Skiboots require caution and rightly, at Blues they referred you on. That said, the best product for growing feet is Superfeet Orthotics. The control point of Superfeet can accomodate different feet and will therefore alow the foot to grow on them without (in most cases) presenting the feet a problem. A custom made Orthotic has precisely measured and constructed 'Control' points that given the foot may grow, may find themselves in the wrong area of the foot given said growth. I don't think this is a Bad Bootfitting story, you've just found more information in a way that means something to you. I have referred parents of children to Podiatrists many times, some are offended, others elated.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You can't say what the best option for a childs foot is without seeing the foot. it may be Superfeet or they may need a custom made orthosis but no-one can tell from the info we have here.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Infact no matter how much info given on this site or any other can the correct Orthosis be defined. However we may make comments about products that are more accomaditive than others based on the understanding of their design and point out why custom footbeds may not be the best option for growing feet. 
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, Yes, but you said "the best product for growing feet is Superfeet" and in many cases that may be so but possibly not in all? The kids' feet may require "precisely measured and constructed control points", some do, and if they do they just have to get new ones made as their feet grow. I'm not saying that this is the case here just that we don't know
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This is interesting - given the cost of footbeds - custom or otherwise, it is a big investment for a parent to make - how long would such a footbed last? I buy Clarkes shoes for the children and they measure their feet each time and provide a shoe which allows at least an estimated 3 months growing room. In actuality they often last 4-5 months or so before a new pair is needed, but only that 4-5 months, does a childs foot bed only have a similar lifespan? Sitting here thinking 'I'm glad my kids don't need them'!
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ickabodblue, Are you sound biting or did you not read past that part? 21 words after, in brackets. Shortly after which i explained how a custom orthotic may too present a problem. In my experience, Superfeet Orthotics are the best solution for growing feet, there are always exceptions, but if i may generalize here i stand by my post. The point being i don't think that there has been a bad bootfitting experience, not every child must wear Superfeet or die. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, First, to maximize value, you must starve your kids(sic) and truss up their bones. Superfeet have, if correct for the said child(90% of cases are.) the greatest shelf life given that the control point has the largest and most efficent surface area of any off the shelf orthotic.
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Megamum, If they needed an orthosis for a medical condition it would be available on the NHS.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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garywilk, Shirley thread should be entitled "Is this the sign of a good boot fitting service" 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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red 27, I used the word bad as the worst case for my 13 year old was that she was sold boots with footbeds with no comment about her feet and as she has most to gain from a specialist referall then bad fitting. My son on the other hand was immediately considered worthy of a referall to a specialist. Not good boot fitting but great fitting. He will have footbeds provided by NHS, not sure what standard but it does at least give me some confidence that a problem did exist and that it has been evaluated by a spacialist and hopefully will be corrected witht eh intervention recommended. My daughter requires purpose built orthotic to realign her feet, arch, ankle and in turn the positioning of her knees relative to feet (i think this is what is going on) The podiatrist also gave both children a set of exercises to loosen off their hamstrings. + a lot of other advice which I hope will improve things for them generally. From the time of the boot fitting in Blues to getting the NHS appointment took 14 days. 10 days later my son gets his footbeds and my daughter wil get hers (built from a cast of her foot) three weeks later. So one case of bad fitting and one case of great fitting.
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I wonder how many boot shops are able to give the sort of expertise garywilk found in Blues? Very few, I'm guessing. The friendly snowHead bootfitters can, I expect, and Profeet seem to bring that sort of expertise judging from their discussions with my OL and overheard conversations there. Are you going to get it in S&R or somewhere like that?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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vivski, I don't imagine that many people who will benefit from a decent footbed in their ski boots (like me) need medical treatment on their feet. I'm impressed that the fitter at Blues was able to spot one who did.
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Poster: A snowHead
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richmond, indeed, my comment was kinda pointless really re OH's bootfitting, just thought I'd write something other than my rant about the NHS  I guess my point, if any, is that for most people, who are more likely to need just custom footbeds than medical treatment, the bootfitter we saw in S&R for my OH was very good. Can't say if he would have picked out a condition needing medical treatment but then probably most high street fitters wouldn't - so also very impressed that Blues fitter did spot it. But given that, as you say, probably not many people who benefit from custom footbeds need medical treatment (and are not already aware of it), I'm not sure you can brand a bootfitter as "bad" for not noticing? I think most of the high-street ski shops are unlikely to ever offer same level of service as a specialist bootfitter - and most punters they sell kit to probably don't care! if you do care, go to a specialist fitter. I don't bother, happy to go to S&R or whatever, but don't expect as much custom fitting etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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garywilk, Yes I see what you're saying. I was thinking that the Glasgow shop was just ordinary - 'average' - rather than 'bad'....
I would view a 'bootfitter' in one of the big chain shops like Slush'n'Rubble (copyright Kramer - I think) as just a kid pushing product, not as a 'professional' and as such unqualified (literally) to spot medical issues with anyone's feet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The fitter in Blues showed a lot of common sense. Normal outdoor shoe fitting requires children to place their foot in a measure of some sort from a sitting position. I am sure those of you with kids have seen this in many shops. The difference in blues was that the fittter measured from sitting position and then again from a standing. He noticed that the length of my sons feet increased by 1 1/2 sizes in one foot and 2 sizes in the other, both, he said, were far in excess of normal weighted travel. From this he identified the basic problem that any boot sold without some form of correction would mean that the boot would be either tight or worse still would allow his foot to spread and make the problem worse.
Upon his recommendation I boked a NHS podiatrist appointment (which at least here in Scotland is self referall so no need to first go to GP). The foot doc confirmed what the boot fitter said in Blues and then found even greater probs with my daughters feet.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Its the reason I asked if it was a sign of bad boot fitting that these problems were not identified in the Glasgow shop. The critical thing here is that the fitter recognised a problem which can be corrected in my children. For most of us the ability to correct a problem is long past, all we can do is lesson a bit of pain or improve a fit. But for children there must be some form of extra training that can be undertaken. In this instance it was something as simple as correctly measuring the feet, looking at his stance (relation of knee to hip and ankle) and recommending we see a specialist.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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garywilk, The difficulty with children is there is no constant, ie no certainly of rate of growth. The best course of action is to accomodate and re-evaluate. This requires commitment and potentially a monthly change of footbed (IMO). Many of us have grown up without orthotics, most of us on the hard flat surface we call the earth, my informal studies lead me to believe we'll all end up on all fours due to foot/leg pain, if the planet doesn't melt first. Time will tell. Best thing, as you point out is prevention and getting the feet supported is a great help, just get those orthotics checked regularly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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vivski, You could try the Podiatry school at Salford Uni. Don't know much about it but it gets a good name.
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My daughter used orthotics for a time (sorted out by private podiatrist) and she did find them helpful for problems with knees/hips/gait etc and wore them for a couple of years. However, like the poster above, she was also given hamstring stretching exercises by the podiatrist and in fact the stretching has been far more crucial - she is now fine without the orthotics but continues to have to stretch, very carefully and advisedly, a great deal. She has standard custom footbeds in her ski boots.
I do wonder, however, what proportion of the population, if assessed by a podiatrist, would end up being prescribed orthotics. When you see people jogging (which we do a lot, because we live overlooking a path round a tidal pond, which is a favourite jogging place) you see the most terrible gait, frequently. You feel like shouting to people to save themselves a lot of grief, and walk rather than run! That's my excuse for not going jogging; not good for my knees.
It's maybe a bit much to expect ski bootfitters to identify all our foot problems - what about shoe fitters in expensive shops which charge a fortune for kids' shoes..... I wonder how often they pick up problems (from evidence including wear on the old shoes, amongst other things).
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pam w, It's not just the joggers, i remember back in the day when i had a girlfriend(  ) she would catch me staring at someone, it wouldn't be a pretty girl, but someone with a strange gait or bad feet.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, snowHeads everywhere are now thanking you and noting down this excuse to use on occasions when they are caught in a similar postition.
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I wonder what proportion of the adult population would benefit from corrective footbeds who never even realise they have a problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I thought most really young children have flat feet and the arch develops later (I may be wong, it happens a lot) if I'm right about this at what age should I start to think about getting early flat feet supported. I'm flat footed and may have generously passed on these to my two children (3 and 6).
As a general warning to those with flat feet I took part in the MaraPubaKebabathon for Cancer Research in Exeter a few years ago which involved running 13 miles, drinking 13 beers/other drinks in a pub crawl (not pints thankfully but still a task for a teetotaller like me) then eating a specially "race" prepared kebab at the local kebab shop. Judges were at every stage (and pub) to ensure fair play (some girls hid their chillies in the kebab wrapper and were caught and made to eat the chillies alone - ouch). The last two disciplines were completed ok. However I completed the run with little preparation and in tennis shoes and have frankly not been the same since it literaly finished off my already flat feet, I was in agony at the end of the race. Now I stretch a lot (this is really helpful) and have to wear custom beds in normal shoes, I can't help thinking orthotics earlier would have kept my feet in better shape
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty,In the early years kids can look like they have flat feet because there is a fat pad located around the arch which makes them look flat and much of the structure of the foot is still cartillage. Most kids at this early stage also have bow legs which is normally just a developemental stage. As they get older they go through a stage of knock knees which can again make them look like they have flat feet. These things are all dependant on size, weight, stage of development etc and if you are concerned then you should see a podiatrist either through the NHS or find a private one at www.feetforlife.org
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ickabodblue, thanks, very helpful
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FAQ
so went to private place in the meantime and got orthotics there (nice and expensive), and when I moved from southampton a year and a half later I still hadn't heard from the NHS people 
ones I bought are a bit knackered now so might try to get referred in Manchester, see if it's any quicker...... so saying they are free from the NHS is all very well, if you can ever get seen there, otherwise it would be expensive if growing kids needed new orthotics regularly.
)