Has skiing become too easy? Can it 'ignite the flames of passion'?

A snowHead

Roger Marolt makes some interesting points in this article in The Aspen Times. It's worth a read:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20080229/COLUMN/743450404

A snowHead

Well I'm not bored with skiing yet (about 5 trips) and from what I've seen you can make it as difficult for yourself as you want.
I don't have the option of skiing every day for an entire winter season, so a bit of technological advancement allows me to enjoy skiing with only a few weeks experience.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

David

For once an interesting topic. Well done.

Better tools definitely make the job easier but to contrast skiing with golf, tennis & cycling & imply that they haven't had the same technical assisted progression is a bit rich.

Oversize clubs, composite rackets, 10 inch travel mountain bikes all make possible in the sports what were previously impossible. Technology just enables the boundaries to be pushed further - into the backcountry, dropping 20fters on a mountain bike etc.

The real way to level things out IMO might be to "ban the brutal grooming" or at least reduce it. Nothing would slow down blue run speed- heroes more that having to build up their skills on less constistently finished slopes. But then no res0rt catering to the leisure skier will be that crazy.

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David Goldsmith, I thought that was a fascinating article, but am probably not best placed to anwer your question, since I can't actually carve a turn that well, and certainly can't float through crud. However - and I've no idea about the technologies of golf or cycling - Marolt may not be correct about differentiating between skiing and tennis. 'Improvements' in the manufacture of tennis rackets have transformed that game at every level: in brief, the professional game is a lot more boring to watch and the amateur game is easier to play. But, whatever technological improvements have occurred, surely all of skiing, golf, tennis and cycling can be enjoyed at many levels of competence: they all remain sports (with all that implies) for some, and leisure activities for others. There are many threads on this very forum which attest to that distinction in people's minds. And is this anything new? I can remember my father describing skiing in the Arlberg in the 1920s and it sounded as though a lot of fairly incompetent people were having a pretty shambolic but enjoyable time messing about on the slopes; at the same time, others were indeed trying to "become proficient through patient, practice and conditioning." The two different experiences have always co-existed - similarly in tennis, golf and cycling - this is nothing new.

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You've also got to put in context the fact that the guy is in Aspen, practically the home of pampered skiing. He bemoans the fact that it is accessible to the less able but probably conveniently ignores the fact that he makes a healthy living through the "industry". Obviously ski bumming in Aspen will be an expensive choice.

I don't see a shortage of ski bums anywhere I go to ski, maybe with a bit more cash in their pocket but with the passion to jack in their day to day for sustained skiing.

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I am not so sure about being too easy..depends what they ski, but mostly I think fatbob is spot on.

I think more hills should be basher-free... ..but I mean whole resorts, but that is not so likely to happen.

I also think it is quite possible to be a bit jaded about skiing...

After all it is free

When I look down on a busy piste from a chairlift, it strikes me that, despite the advances in technology, the overall standard of skiing is no better than it was twenty years ago.

David Goldsmith, Why not answer your own question? I would love to see your comparisons of modern skis you have used in difficult terrain, compared to those you used in the 70s.

Patch, This year I was astonished to see how many people were now prepared to have a pop at La Grave, in comparison to what I saw 20 odd years ago. Equally, black runs are busier than they were (witness the recent video of the Tunnel, admittedly full of skiers who looked as though they wished they weren't there).

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fatbob, I agree with JT, you are spot on.

IMHO, "nu skool skis" do 2 things. They make turn initiation easier - thus moving all the problems further along the turn. They make "off piste" in some conditions (i.e.powder) easier, if not easy.

DG's selected quotes "nearly every skier can handle every run", etc. are delightful and complete poo-poo. The author is clearly living in a different world.

I can distinguish an expert from a beginner generally by watching how they hold their skis. Stationary generally but dynamically definitely. Patch, you're also quite right. However, I think that speeds have increased with no increase in control. This is not a good thing!

And, piste skiing people seem less inclined to try the tougher things - skiing bumps well (IMHO the mark of a truly good skier), skiing dodgy off piste (not dodgy avvy wise I hasten to add). However, what I think is very odd is that he seems to have ignored the massive increase of people touring, esp. in the US. Walking for your turns, skinny soft skis, silly soft comfy boots, dodgy conditions...surely that's not easy in any regard?

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If it was all that easy, would there be so many injuries?

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You can't break your your leg serving a tennis ball and you don't usually rupture an ACL putting a golf ball. Technology does help us but it 'll never replace technique or ability. The fact that loads of punters can survive a black run doesn't mean that skiing a black run
stylishly is no longer a challenge.

From a personal point of view, I don't think I ski any terrain more difficult now than I did towards the end of the straight ski era. I suspect there is still as much in the head as there ever was and going above a certain steepness for any individual still reveals the same psychological reservations, though the skis are maybe a little easier to ski on.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

David Goldsmith, Interesting points - I am not a climber (tried it - no good at it) but there has been a real discussion about the ethics of climbing I believe. Free vs fixed routes, use of hardwear, solo vs non-solo etc, and some of that debate has been about the effects on the environment.

but be interested to hear from someone who actually knows anything about that.

As regards the article referenced in the OP - it is another sad old git saying "it was better in my day" isn't it? The challenge is still out there. I have only been skiing since 1985, but haven't run out of challenges yet. And as David Murdoch identifies - there has been a huge diversification of the way people slide - with accompanying ethics/challenges. Just look at the whole US free-the-heel/free-the-mind movement.

A snowHead

Buggered if I find it easy. Do I need some more technology ? rolling eyes

A snowHead

David Goldsmith, something is still going on with skis. My Missions are 89mm at the minimum width point - yet they are sufficiently torsionally rigid for me to feel confident on them on steep icy slopes. It would be interesting if you would compare actual examples of skis you have used - ancient and modern. I agree with your comment about boot construction - not sure about bindings. I think they have prgressively improved - so maybe no design revolution - but I have heard there maybe something better in the offing concerning side release.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I learned to ski in the first year that plastic boots were available so have always been relatively pampered. I agree with a lot of what DM and DG say.

To expand a bit on DM's points modern skis (e.g. post 1995) can help people advance in some circumstances - making turn initiation a bit easier can aid progress and effort elsewhere but they can also hinder mastery.

I'm not in favour of ultra fat skis for European skiing - they may make sense in bottomless American powder but make little sense in the mixed Euro conditions we usually get. It is hard to think of day during the 2008 winter where fat skis were a an advantage except for people who want to ski on top of thin refreeze crusts.

Still there is a complete revolution between skiing a 210cm straight ski in a 50 degree couloir and a 172cm mid-fat waisted ski. I see people doing routes that were once considered super human... the only problem, the people who did the first descents could ski whereas some of today's "extemists" are barely competent. Probably why so few of the pioneers actually died doing extreme routes whereas today falls and death are more common. Like I say, it makes it easier but stops people becoming excellent skiers.

The other big revolution in French skiing has been resort run terraforming. The CdA resorts are now a series of boring, evenly graded runs a bit like the skiing you get in the snowdome. People have to find moguls or go off piste for a bit of a challenge. Or go to secret spots untouched by the Parisien bean counters of the CdA. The run grading also completely trashes the mountains. Arc 2000 is like an open cast quarry in the summer and Flaine is probably even worse these days.

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Yes [re stoatsbrother's points] I can't see that the back-country magic of skiing has diminished.

But I should think that at least 95% of skiing is done on patrolled and controlled runs, so the homogenisation of this terrain is a key factor and has been very striking since I began. I recall the vast majority of pistes in the 1960s and 1970s having really individual character and challenge.

Then the grooming and smoothing began.

It's possible to ski ruts and bumps, avoiding rocks, tree roots, troughs and other facets of nature. It means the pistes are tackled with a lot more technical skill, probably a good bit slower, and with more thought and discussion.

We could start to outlaw the Kassbohrer Pistenbully on several grounds, including the above.

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At £28 a flight to Geneva what kind of frame of passion can it possibly ignite?

Shouldn't compare the folks in the old days with todays' condition of ease of transportation, massive choices of resorts, cheap last minute deals, low cost flights........

If one is able to practise it regularly then skiing will be easy.

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I know a skier that has learned to ski the piste on 98mm waist skis, did he make it easy for himself? Cool

After all it is free

I don't know. How wide was the piste?

The first wave of short skis may have occured in the 70's but I don't think they really caught on. When I started skiing in the 80's most adult males were on 190-205's at a guess other than during the early learning period.

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It's an interesting article, King Canute would be proud, but I can understand the point he's aiming at.

Modern skis make skiing easier, I don't think anyone would argue with that. And thereby the achievement has been downgraded and the time to get 'there' reduced.

At which point I'd metaphorically shrug my shoulders. So what did you expect.

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ABS and power steering has made driving easier, does that mean F1 is non the less impressive?

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T Bar, you're absolutely right. There was a reaction against 1970s 'compacts' and ski lengths went up again. There was also the rear-entry boot revolution, which dominated the 1980s. Again there was a reaction (more industry-led that time) and people went back to 4-clips.

The original compact skis had widths and sidecuts similar to long skis. Elan and Kneissl took a fresh look at short skis - giving them more sidecut - in the early 1990s. Fat skis came in at around the same time. Then the two design trends merged.

If people find skiing too easy they aren't trying hard enough. I think the author of that article needs to buy something for his very bad case of sour grapes that he is suffering from.

You know it makes sense.

rob@rar, no, I disagree with that, and I think his writing is significantly more perceptive than 'sour grapes'. Much of the natural challenge of skiing has been 'blanded out'

There shouldn't be the need to artificially seek a challenge that doesn't really naturally exist in the scheme of things.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

David Goldsmith, you seem reluctant to compare a modern ski you have skied on to one of 25 years ago; perhaps technology has moved on more that you think. I agree with your point about the modern trend to over-grooming. It was quite an experience to ski La Grave in a well tracked state; even when there was no powder, it was most enjoyable. Maybe the fear in other resorts is that on narrow pistes (as opposed to the unconfined runs at LG) the snow would get too worn or mogully for many skiers to cope with. Even so, I think modern grooming tends to be excessive.

A snowHead

David Goldsmith, Sorry mate but that doesn't make sense. It simply raises the bar as to what is a challenge and for who. This guy can stick with his chosen equipment and still enjoy the challenge others may choose a different weapon. It's still sliding across the snow, in control. It's all about perspective. As indeed you are communicating here with a keyboard and the 'Net rather than by scroll and fountain pen and a million carrier pigeons.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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rob@rar,

But as you're posting can we assume you're one on the punters who gives up at mid-day because they've run out of challenge. wink

BTW the main reason for this is that faster lifts mean that going bell to bell is significantly harder on the legs than in the "good old days".

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David Goldsmith, I do see your point about the homogenisation of the skiing experience to suit a perceived mass market requirement, but some of the more recently developed/expanded resorts in Canada eg Fernie, Kicking Horse and Revelstoke to name but three would argue that the market can also supply more intense terrain with challenges, but with the safety of proper patrolling etc.

After all it is free

David Goldsmith, No that just means we got the design wrong in the first place, was skiing designed to be as hard as possible? If so we should have started skiing by tying branches of trees to our feet, maybe we did, in which case this guy's missed the point as to that which he skied with was already making things easy. Case closed.

Next. Cool

Interesting. I certainly still don't find it easy to do hard stuff, and hope to continue improving. But as for "passion", Snowheads has plenty of evidence that "discovering skiing" is as exciting as ever, and it is available to far more people than were able to join the Kandahar club between Oxbridge and the Guards.

In commercial terms I think there's scope for the entire industry to look not at the gnarly, extreme, powder in yer face, get the cool gear, side of skiing but in the other direction, at making skiing accessible and attractive to the huge and virtually untapped market of people with vast sums to spend and indefinite leisure time. Old people. Modern gear and user-friendly lifts, impeccable grooming may have their downsides, as above, but they do potentially open up the sport to plenty of people who have never skied, and who now think it's so gnarly and young and cool and technical that it's not for them.

Elsewhere there's a thread on how to flog the end of season. Most resorts are well under capacity in April. Ideal time for the old who now, I believe, are by far the biggest spenders on travel. They won't clog up the slopes at half term, either. They will have a "winter holiday", with some skiing.

Yes, I thought the author of the article sounded like an embittered old whatsit, too.

There are similarities, by the way, in the revolution in windsurfing hardware. Modern starter boards are so easy anybody could learn. It was much harder in my day, when I had one of only a handful of boards in Barbados....

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SMALLZOOKEEPER, what about slope grooming? In saying there is too much, I do think the article author and DG have a case.

Help!!

Has skiing become too easy? Can it 'ignite the flames of passion'?

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