 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Get your hip outside the stance leg knee to turn the other way.
If you have a look at the Martin Heckleman video posted in the Skating on Flats thread, he never manages(never intends to?) to get his weight far over enough to the outside to engage the outside edges, and remains on the bases and inside edges throughout. Which is why he resorts to the pole stabbing contortions.
As you're attempting this, look down at your stance ski. Is it directly under your chin and navel?
If it's outside of both, balanced edging will require amazing feats of bowlegged athleticism.
If it's outside of your navel but not the chin, you're probably dropping that shoulder too far, or attempting to steer by turning towards the turn with both shoulders.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 19-02-08 22:06; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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phil625sxc, I've been working on this for ages. It is a difficult exercise - people who think they ski well can often not do it, though those that really CAN ski well can do it almost instantly, once it's suggested to them. I can do it OK for a few turns on a gentle slope - after loads of practice! Better on my left foot than my right. Yes, it's difficult because you need to use your body to get the weight over onto the "wrong" edge and it feels precarious. It is precarious, at my stage; one quite often topples over.
Best start gradually. Can you traverse on the uphill ski? Get onto that ski earlier in the turn, and ride it through the turn - there's a very good exercise called a "javelin turn" which is sure to be described here somewhere by someone more expert than I.
Try to avoid doing what I started doing, which was having my weight too far back - with the TIP of the lifted ski up. V bad habit, as pointed out by instructor, and one which I am now having to unlearn.
You don't say how much skiing you have done. Can you turn on the "right" (ie outside) ski with your weight correctly positioned over your foot? Check this by lifting just the tail of the inside ski? Not much point starting one footed skiing till you've got that nailed.
A good exercise, to use up otherwise boring time on button lifts, is to practice going up on one leg. Lift the tail of the other ski only. Until you can do that fairly well you're not likely to be able to do the "one leg skiing" thing.
Someone better qualified than I will probably be along shortly to tell you that I've got it all wrong - I'm quite ready to believe them.
It's a really good way of using up some time on an easy slope, maybe keeping a less experienced skier company. Skiing backwards is another.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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PS good exercise for a boot fit check.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I find this really tough on my 'strong' leg, but a bit easier on my 'weak' leg for reasons I can't quite understand. I find it easier to do with a bit of speed - if you are skiing too slow it makes balancing when you are turning on your little-toe edge very difficult. Skiing on one leg means you have to move your centre of mass/gravity a bit further across the skis when you are on the little-toe edge than you are used to (which is why it's a great drill). You need to have the confidence to project your hips right across the skis to get onto the 'wrong' edge.
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| comprex wrote: |
| PS good exercise for a boot fit check. |
I think I've found it a bit easier since having my alignment adjusted.
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rob@rar, yep, I remember I used to muscle the ski forward and back under my centre when changing edges, by almost a foot on my 'strong side', the boots were so off.
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| Quote: |
I find this really tough on my 'strong' leg, but a bit easier on my 'weak' leg for reasons I can't quite understand.
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me too. Interesting what comprex said about boot fit and alignment. Maybe it's easier for people who have a stronger right leg, and therefore stronger left turn, to still have a stronger left turn on one foot. Which will then be the left, ie "weaker" foot. I also find it much easier to balance on my left leg going up a button lift, as it happens. Same mystery mechanism at work, I suppose.
I find the exercise easier on some skis than others, too. I've been promising myself to nail it each season for the last three years.... still not succeeded though. My son smashed a ski at the top of the Grand Motte in Tignes last year and skied all the way back to Val D'Isere on one. He did swap legs every now and then and had sore legs for the following few days..... He said the bumps were pretty difficult and he did get his cousin to carry the knackered ski.
For me, being able to ski on one leg for more than a couple of wobbly and very gradual turns on an easy slope (which is all I can do) is one of the key marks of a really good skier. I have a secret wish (well, not very secret any more  ) to have mastered this by the time I'm 70, and impress the hell out of everyone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I tried this a few times as an exercise last week in whistler. Its a bit unnatural, but i found it was just a case of tilting the ski in the direction you wanted to turn. you want to go left, lean the ski to the left, you want to go right, tilt the ski onto the right edge. You shift the single ski underneath you so that its closer to the centreline of you body with your hip outside of it and then just lean.
I guess its easier if you learnt to ski in the french style with your skis tight together.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I find the exercise easier on some skis than others, too. |
Me too. Not too difficult on my 65mm wide slalom skis, very difficult on my 90mm all mountain skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, thanks for the advice, I'll check that next time and have a look at that video. Should upper body movement come into it at all ?
pam w, I think I'm a lower intermediate - I skied 3-4 weeks as a kid, had a 20 odd year break and have rediscovered it with a passion last season, and so will be going on my 4th week since then next month.  Happy on reds and can get down blacks, (in a fashion)  I have a lesson booked for the next trip, as up until now I have just really enjoyed getting back into skiing myself.
I can turn on one leg the "normal" way, but haven't tried traversing on the uphill ski - I would think I could...but one never knows !
I'm not familiar with the javelin turn but will look into that. I can do the one legged thing on button lifts ok, and on the same occasion I also tried a bit of going backwards, which was pretty easy (compared to the one legged business)  - thanks for the tips !
rob@rar, I was wondering about the speed, and type of turns - I was trying quite slow, large raduis turns, and afterwards I thought that maybe it would be easier a bit quicker with smaller turns down the fall line of a gentle slope. I'll give it a go next time anyway.
Thanks for the advice 's
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Afaik the "javelin" turn is designed to develop edging skill on the inside edge of the outside ski, and should not pose many problems for most folk. The hard bit is then getting on to the outside edge to turn the other way, and I'm not sure that javelin turns will help with that
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I'm not sure that javelin turns will help with that
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I don't think the turn part would, but getting up onto that top ski earlier in the turn is a good start. phil625sxc, if you can go backwards up button lifts (something I've never had the nerve to try) turning on the "wrong" leg ought to be a cinch!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As soon as possible. Because it's one of the things I do to practise one-legged skiing, I then stay on that one, maybe heading back up the hill a bit, to get the feel of steering on that outside edge. It's only on an easy slope, and I'm only mucking around (it's a slope I take nervous visitors to, as it has an easy short button lift and a nice even gradient (gentle blue) and good for such things).
Some years ago, I found that when I started trying to make better turns the deliberate step onto that uphill ski was a useful thing to focus on. It felt unnatural, as did traversing on the upper ski (same thing) but really helped me get the weight shift earlier in the turn, instead of on the corner.
It's probably very unkosher.... and in normal skiing I don't step up onto the top ski, I just let the bottom one go. But initially I found that very difficult, and it was a useful move for me. But don't slalom skiers sometimes step up onto the uphill ski (scissors?). I'm sure I read that somewhere.
It's actually rather like that skating step we were talking about elsewhere, I suppose. Again, being able to stay on one ski is key.
Sorry, this is very untechnical. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As for the top ski skiing, I think doing Charlestons is a good way to get into skiing on the "wrong" edge, I'm just not convinced that I understand the "javelin" part. As far as I understand it the top ski is the one that is lifted and "javelined" across the downhill ski, which is the one you are edging and standing on? Still, if it works for you no problem 
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 20-02-08 13:42; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As I start to attack the turn (yes really!!) I noticed that I was practically standing on the outside ski, it seemed to me that it wouldn't have been much effort to have stayed there and done some distance on it. Not that I did so though
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yoda, Watching our ski lessons group attempt charlestons at the EoSB 06 would have had everyone here rolling in the isles.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
As far as I understand it the top ski is the one that is lifted and "javelined" across the downhill ski
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The way I do it (which might be wrong...) when first lifted and javelined it is the downhill ski, so the uphill ski is ridden right round the turn, becoming the bottom ski. And then lifted and javelined. So you're on one leg the whole time, through 180 degrees, with just a quick crossover.
What's a "Charlestone"? Does this warrant another illustration from Yoda's splendid video library?
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| Quote: |
As for the top ski skiing, I think doing Charlestons is a good way to get into skiing on the "wrong" edge
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Yoda, can you explain this drill, I couldn't find it in the glossary.
ta
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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phil625sxc, basically just turn on the uphill (outside) edge of the top ski with the lower ski off the ground, then step onto the old lower ski to do the same thing the other way. Give me a few minutes - I should have video of Heckelman doing them somewhere
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, ah just spotted your post as well. That's quite an advanced javelin turn, good on you  video coming up.
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Righto here we are. Sorry about the rough-and-ready editing 
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You know it makes sense.
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Yoda, woooo, excellent !
thanks for that, I'll give it a shot next time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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[/quote]
Yoda, can you explain this drill, I couldn't find it in the glossary.
ta[/quote]
I will try to stick in a description......
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, thank you young master 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yoda, no problemo I owe you as every time you put up a martin hecklemen video i crack up laughing... dont know why but his accent and the way he demos just looks so goofy....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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....and his skis are about twice as long as he is
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ah, no........I don't Charleston. When I put the weight on the ski it's on the outside edge of the bend not the inside. Mind you this year when I went parallel across the mountain the instructor did get me to lift the uphill ski from the heel end of the ski several times - he said it was good for showing me when my weight was right and otherwise - if my weight was too far behind I couldn't do it. I then had to transfer the lift to the other ski as I went round the bend so the weight was back on the outside edge of the turn.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Mind you this year when I went parallel across the mountain the instructor did get me to lift the uphill ski from the heel end of the ski several times - he said it was good for showing me when my weight was right and otherwise - if my weight was too far behind I couldn't do it. I then had to transfer the lift to the other ski as I went round the bend so the weight was back on the outside edge of the turn.
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Megamum's instructor was getting her to do what I was originally talking about - until you can do that drill reliably there's not much point trying to Charleston, or do any other kind of "wrong leg" turning.
The Charleston video is great. I'm not sure about that waving around of the other tip in the air though. That's what easiski told me off for....I was turning on the "wrong" ski OK, but my weight was too far back. So I have started again, just trying to lift the back of the outside ski. Which I am finding a lot more difficult - it requires a more subtle "leaning" movement.
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pam w, I don't know about qualifying for the term 'doing it reliably', but I do think I made quite a creditable stab at it which I'm quite pleased about
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, yep, it's well worth doing - sounds as though you're making rapid progress.
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I'm still working on these drills as well. Every time I head down an easy flattish blue I try to do gentle one leg turns for 30 secs then switch... it's a slow learning process but a little extra speed does seem to help.
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FAQ
