 Poster: A snowHead
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I have just had a week in Tignes, followed by 4 days in the Ski Amade in Austria. Flachau is one of the busiests resorts in Austria, has the best lift sytem of ANYWHERE I have been, and is VERY nice place to go skiing. The mountain Huttes are lovely places, serving excellent food and drink, at about HALF the price we paid in the Espace Killy  .
Is there a time when €5 for a can, €6 for a plate of chips, and €0.50 to visit the loo will come back and bite the greedy ones in the butt?
I have used Flachau as an example, but all the local resorts were the same.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, it's €1.00 for the loo in Megève. A good class of loo though! 
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brian
brian
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Frosty the Snowman, only if people stop going there because of it. Supply and demand, innit ?
ps. certain small Swiss stations can be very good value as well.
Actually, isn't this why are the big-name ski-factories so expensive ? There must be good value small French stations as well, no ?
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See, that's why lift tickets in the US are so expensive - they include proper toilet facilities! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty, Think alot has to do with the number of brits that go and the strength of £. There is also the quality of expert areas in most of the French resorts, but the small rooms and bad lifts are a drawback of France.
When you compare it to most Austrian resorts France are way behind, Ugly and overpriced but my god is the skiing fantastic its all about what you want I guess
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| See, that's why lift tickets in the US are so expensive - they include proper toilet facilities! |
With the price of lift passes in the US, I'd be expecting Andrex velvet toilet rolls, and have my butt wiped for me!!!
But I think the economics of skiing in Austria has had an effect, as their German customers have not been prepared to pay high prices.
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In my experience, France is more pricey than Austria or Switzerland. France is also much more popular with the Brits.
Apart from Chamonix, I try to avoid France usually.
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No charges for any of the loos in Serre Chevalier, and nearly all of them are now reasonable. We were shocked at how expensive we found La Plagne after spending the previous couple of holidays elsewhere. I can't comment on Tignes prices as I haven't been there, but brian, has a point, there are good value French ski resorts, not all of them charge the prices of t he 3V and Espace Killy. Are those prices you are quoting for Tignes?
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Tignes/ValD is particularly pricey - we all noticed this when there last week, despite having been to many french resorts previously, it was eyewateringly pricey to get lunch/drinks etc.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 8-02-08 14:24; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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arlberg, I agree - it cost us about £140 each for 2 weeks of lift passes in the US - total rip off!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Helen Beaumont, Mountain resto prices in Espace Killy.
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You know it makes sense.
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Frosty the Snowman, I think so, a whirly automatic flush type of thing (sorry, not an expert on toilet technology).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
HALF the price we paid in the Espace Killy
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Practically anywhere would be half the price you'd pay in the Espace Killy. Be sensible.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Is it one of those Japanese ones. A friend has had one installed : was my reaction upon 1st useage.
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I think you are meant to stand off the toilet before flushing
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Frosty the Snowman, unless both have changed beyond recognition since I last skied at them, there is no comparison between Ski Amade and L'Espace Killey. The latter can charge more because it offers a more comprehensive range of skiing. Ski Amade was charming , had excellent restaurants, but had less altitude and lacked the area and challenges presented by L'Espace Killey. When I skied Ski Amade more than 20 years ago, I admit, it's lift system was not good - with a lot of T bar tows - but I am sure it will have improved.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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arlberg nailed it. Austria is full of Germans, and Germans would never pay those prices.
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I shudder to think what's happening inside business around Chamonix in the run up to Half Term. We have strategies to deal with the business, logistically and product placementwise, but i know for sure the 'Half Term' menus and tariffs come out and get a wipe down in many places.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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achilles, Having seen the standard of skier at both areas, I think your argument for prices is tenuous at best. I saw a lot more people descending into Val d'Isere down the awful Santons "blue" piste, rather than via the gnarly Epaule du Charvet "black". I also used Flachau as an exmple as, like Espace Killy, it is a very busy resort. Surely supply and demand is about numbers, not about how gnarly the skiing is (reading between your lines)  .
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
HALF the price we paid in the Espace Killy
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Practically anywhere would be half the price you'd pay in the Espace Killy. Be sensible. |
Absolute Tosh. A saving oon those prices, yes. A halving? Be sensible.
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Frosty the Snowman, fair point - and I don't know the answer. Don't misunderstand me, I liked Ski Amade - though the snow was a bit thin at time when I went. I remember commentitng at the time that I wished the Austrians would go to France and learn how to set up a lift system - and that the French would go to Austria and learn how to run mountain restaurants. From your reports the Austrians have improved the lift system - and from experience this year, the French are beginning to get their act together with mountain restaurants. I thought LDA and LG good value scoff-wise.
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Frosty the Snowman, 6€ for a plate of chips, you said. I'd pay about 3€ here.
Last time I looked, three was half of six. (Though I may be wrong - numbers were never a strong point.)
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achilles, The lifts were simply stunning in most of the places we visited, that said, so was the meal we had in the Signal resto above La Fornet. We visited Le Fornet Glacier on 2 seperate days out of 6, because it was quiet, good views........ a nice experience.
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Lizzard, Glad to see that prices have come down significantly since the Mondial du Ski in November 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Frosty the Snowman, glad the lifts have improved. I was out that way last summer - first time I had seen ski resort I had visited in the summer (other than Cairngorm). Didn't go up the mountains, even so it was beautiful.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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stewart woodward, That would have been significantly less than half of that price in Zillertal last month.
I was usually paying €2.50, occasionally €3.0 for a hot chocolate, and I think coffee was about the same.
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You know it makes sense.
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It's supply and demand, vote with your feet if you don't think it's worth it! They know they have a product that's in demand with snow-hungry Brits and are obviously putting their feet up and watching the euros roll in. But, if they kill the goose that lays the golden egg, guess what, no more golden eggs!
I also think the work ethic is stronger in the Germanic countries (not to say that the French don't work). Germany and it's economic satellites have been experiencing highish unemployment, low growth and flattish prices since German reunification in 1990, so they've been less affected by the speculative credit boom that has fed into price inflation in many countries these last 10 years. Now their industries are some of the highest quality, innovative and efficient in the world, they are now in a good position to have an export-led recovery, while other buy-now-pay-later countries flounder as the credit crunch tightens. So, things may change again.
Hope I'm not getting too macro-economic about some greedy local cartel of restaurant owners.
Just thinking, do the lift companies own/price-fix the restaurants in France whereas they're individually owned and compete for business in Austria?
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 8-02-08 16:14; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Hot chocolate in Serre Chevalier is around 2.20-2.5 euros, 3€ maximum.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| luigi wrote: |
| Just thinking, do the lift companies own/price-fix the restaurants in France |
I think there's enough variation within larger resorts to suggest that that isn't the case. The 'own' bit certainly isn't true.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Our commune owns two of the restuartants in the Monetier sector. Can't rememebr offhand what all the prices at the Bachas and Halte de Pre Chabert are, but I do know that
French Onion Soup is 5€ for a huge bowl with loads of cheese on, and it's delicious.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have been to Val d'isere and Les Deux Alpes this season and prices for ski hire, food and drinks were noticeably lower in LDA. What really bugged me was that all resorts in France have raised the age for concessionary lift passes from 60 to 65.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| luigi wrote: |
| Just thinking, do the lift companies own/price-fix the restaurants in France whereas they're individually owned and compete for business in Austria? |
IN north america, at keast in the resorts I've visited, the on-hill restaurants are almost all owned by the lift company and are far cheaper and better value than france, although the quality of food can vary on both sides of the Pond
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ski Amade - A large bowl of what I think was pea soup with beans, veg, and sausage, with bread €4 and the best soup ever!!!!
yes I admit that many French places are cheaper than the big resorts, but they are still pricier. 0.5l beer - €3 eg
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| Jehu wrote: |
| I have been to Val d'isere and Les Deux Alpes this season and prices for ski hire, food and drinks were noticeably lower in LDA. What really bugged me was that all resorts in France have raised the age for concessionary lift passes from 60 to 65. |
Amen to LDA prices and the age thing. The way it's going, I'll be chasing the concessionary age - and never getting there.
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In recent years I have gone to Italy and Austria to ski. Comparing with the French the Austrian resorts appear to be
cheaper,
friendlier,
cleaner,
car-user friendly (resorts go to extra lengths to accommodate day-trippers offering “free” parking, e.g. Hochzillertal has 7 car parks for the visiting skiers, In Saalbach the ski pass entitles free parking in the town centre underground car parks ),
facilities generally better attended,
can be just as easy to get to (easier in my case starting from Amsterdam),
have less traffic jam, (French mid-breakers tend to stay inside their country)
generally better snow for being further to the North, with loads of mountains and little flat grounds.
more flexible with bookings (easier to accept less-than-a-week booking as locals seldom do full weeks),
children and beginners go to smaller resorts locally leaving larger resorts for experienced adult skiers, so less congestion for international visitors.
Sizes of the meals are always larger, so good value for money,
more civilised (you do feel being treated as a client relative to the French care-free attitude)
The may be considered as disadvantages:-
Resort sizes are seldom larger than 200km piste, thus staying one week at one small place is not attractive.
Profit margin for UK tour operators appear to be low so not a lot of Austrian skiing packages are sold in UK..
A lot of small Austria resorts do not have large number of accommodations/facilities to support a big influx of international skiers going there in coach loads and convoys but they are perfect for limited number of car visitors.
It appears that the current Austrian custom, traditions, layouts and the widely available facilities make it kind of “difficult” to rip visiting skiers off. It can be bad news for investors wanting to buy up chalets to make a quick buck.
You can regard my observation as speculation if you like.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Switzerland used to be horrifically expensive - the most expensive skiing in Europe. But they started to lose market share in consequence and they brought their prices down. So it can happen. (not sure how much the value of the Swiss Franc had to do with it as well)
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I agree with the comments about some French lift systems.
The smaller French resorts are generally much cheaper.
The reason for high prices in the ski factories, is simply due to elasticity of demand. French and British visitors to these big areas can afford it, and most are prepared to pay. Majority of skiiers in these areas will go somewhere because of the good skiing/ they know the resort/apres ski/accomodation with piste access.
So there not losing lots of trade on people going elsewhere to Bulgaria for cheaper alternatives by charging high prices.
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