 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm definitely 'intermediate'. Black runs can do OK, don't like bumps or off piste much.
Last year a hire shop in Austria gave me some Volkl Race Tigers. I think it was the 'SL' variant.
I had a blast on them, and this year asked for them by name at the hire shop in Italy. I got the 'GS' variant this time I think.
Again had a great time on them.
Volkl's own website says that they're 'not for everyone' and consensus is that they're expert-only skis for top-class racing types! 
Is there any problem with me skiing on top-of-range race skis as a crummy intermediate? Will anything about their design or construction be causing me to ski improperly? Or doesn't it matter so long as I'm enjoying myself?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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no way! you probably wasnt on the full-on race skis anyway so if you want to ski piste, are aggressive/confident/a biffer then race or high end piste skis will help out. they wont however help you out in the pow or bumps, so might block your progression some? still each to their own
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I started out on some Atomic something or others which didn't feel right for some reason, so took them back to the hire shop and said 'can I try those volkls over there please'.
The guy looked at me in my TK Maxx outfit and mid-range Salomon boots and went 'are you sure? you do realise these are volkl's top end race skis'
I said yeah whatever, just give me the skis, which he did, but he gave me a look as if to say 'you are mental englishman, yes'.
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paulio, I tried some Race Tigers at the PSB last November, they were a lot stiffer than anything I had tried before and made me work very hard and were not very forgiving if I let my concentration slip, but for the four days I used them I had great fun including an introduction to racing.
I'm probably only just an intermediate (whatever that means) but I would say if you intend to stick to the piste and your legs hold out why not  Anyway if you hire them in resort you can usually exchange for something a little more forgiving.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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paulio, "the doc" was probably right. You would more than likely have been on the "Race Carve" variant rather than the "Race" and extremely unlikely to have been on the full-on, full-on stock race ski. The shop would still describe them as "top end race skis" omitting the "except not so top end as to scare you off" bit. Were the Slalom ones mostly Black and the GS ones mostly Orange?
Would they hold you back? tricky question. As the doc says they aren't going to help in powder/crud but may help on piste/hard pack. Depends what you're doing with them really. And how hungover you might be...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The SL ones in Austria where gaudy flourescent yellow/green - from memory.
The GS ones in Italy were bright brilliant red.
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paulio, I think it's like Richard E says, if you're looking to expand your skills rather that just 'float around' the resort in your comfort zone then skis that need driving will be much more fun . . . as long as that's what you want. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Masque wrote: |
| skis that need driving will be much more fun |
Yes, but only if you drive them hard. Rewarding, but tiring.
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We both have Volkl Racetiger skis. Mr DS has the GS race skis and I have the SL race skis - as you say, the SL race is yellow and the GS is red. They also do the SL carver version which is a slightly less stiff version of the SL race and is black/silver. We absolutely love them. I am small and light, but love the stiffness, stability and, when you work them, the liveliness of the skis. And they seem to work (see http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=35882).
And although Mr DS would be classified as "Expert", I definitely wouldn't.
They aren't ideal for deep powder but how often do we get that in Europe? I managed a day on 1ft to 18inches of powder on Saturday on them. I agree with Masque - skis that need working are much more fun, although harder work.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm pleased to see that you're encouraging that paulio, should be OK on higher level skis than he thinks he needs - after all, I had plenty of encouragement from here to do the same and get intermediate skis and I can barely struggle down a swiss blue. The way I see it is, if we can cope on our higher level skis - and probably this might not always be the case, they should represent better value for money by lasting longer before we outski them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, the problem is that if someone goes for a ski which is considerably above their ability, it will slow down their progress, as they spend time fighting the ski, rather than using it.
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Megamum, wot WTF said.
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat, rob@rar, my skis, by the book, are much too stiff and long for my size/weight/ability. But...I love them, and my skiing has come on in leaps and bounds once released from the constraints of my intermediate skis. By the book I should have something soft, short, light and easy to turn. I have something heavy, solid, longer and stiffer - but they suit me great.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well again in Paulio's case does it boil down to how good he actually is? He claims he can manage a pisted black so must be competant on a ski, and clearly hasn't had a problem with the skis he has been testing. Is he actually better than he likes to give himself credit for? In any event if he has been getting on well with a ski, even one marked advanced surely this must be a good indication that he is OK with them?
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Poster: A snowHead
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My story.
I learned on 200cmHeads at 5.11ft, and found my equipe 8's to soft at a stage of just mastering stem parallel turns. I opted for the 9.1 equipe which was 1 down from the race boot. The stiffness worked a treat for me because I found that it advanced me more quicker. i put it down to the fact because I was a mountain biker, my calves and thighs were quite powerful, so the increased stiffness and lack of flex was ace.
Same as with my previous ski's ( K2 TRX 200 cm's semi carvers, I could parallel, but was getting fed up circa 99, because that was it, I could only ski so well.
For me, trying a set of Xscreams on a dry slope was a big step forward because suddenly I could ski alot better and I got that smile back.
So I bought some, and I'm chuffed to bits really.
For me, upgrading to the next level worked as a tool to advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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docsquid, there are some times when I'm on stiff skis that are so unforgiving that it makes me ski like a muppet. This can be because of uncompromising snow conditions, too busy on piste to let the skis run, visibility to poor to let the skis run or me not having the energy/mindset to use the skis as well as required. Fortunately on times like that I can grab another pair of (easier to use) skis and still have fun. For me those occasions are not good for either learning or building confidence, and I ski at a fairly high standard. I think the same will be the case for less experienced skiers. There is a danger to selecting a ski which demands a skill set above the skier's ability level, and the cost is lost opportunities for learning and potentially screwing with someone's confidence. I'm generally an advocate of stiff piste skis, especially for strong skiers, but it's possible to over-egg that particular pudding.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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johnDUB, Perhaps his strength and weight is also a factor in why Paulio was able to use his skis to his satisfaction. Thinking about it Spyderman was very encouraging of my own purchase and he had seen me in person - he knew that I also am not insubstantial and again I guess this helps to bend a ski that might otherwise be too stiff. As you know I watch these threads about ski length and stiffness with interest and it certainly seems that one advanced skiers perfect ski, might also be another intermediate skiers perfect ski, due to more than just the ski manufacturers design team. It seems to have as much to do with the weight, height, strength and of course the skill of the person on them. I'll report back on proper use of mine in a couple of weeks time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| Is he actually better than he likes to give himself credit for? |
Definitely not, no 
Cheers everyone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Suspect the manufacturers' descriptions are a bit approximate/geared to selling skis rather than anything else. Mine are described as 'expert' as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Masque wrote: |
| skis that need driving will be much more fun |
Yes, but only if you drive them hard. Rewarding, but tiring. |
Amen. I thought that that was just because I was old.
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Megamum, agreed... I had Volkl Race Tigers - the orange GS version - for one day in Italy earlier this year - found them bland and hard work - I'm probably too slight/light/sh*te for them... swapped for some Stoekli slalom skis - loved those. horses for...
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I don't think weight has much impact on whether a very stiff (i.e. race department) ski can be used well. Technique is far more important.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, figures... 
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| red 27 wrote: |
| rob@rar, figures... |
I wish I had the excuse of "I'm the wrong weight for these skis" but sadly I can only blame my rather paltry technique.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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docsquid, again, my experience is the same as yours, though I am not as light as you are. On piste, I am skiing much better on my Head xIRCs than I was on my light, whippy Dynastars. But I have a painful right shoulder from carrying them! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hurtle, 
Mr DS is very good and sometimes carries mine for me!
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It's strange, but while being able to get down a mountain safely with a smile on your face on a pair of skis is always great, it's not entirely the same as using that pair of skis as it's meant to be used.
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You know it makes sense.
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The question is, what does intermediate and expert really mean.?? Ii know what it says in the books, but most ski instructers call their groups intermediate after only two weeks skiing. I have been skiing for many more years than that but although we go into 'expert' groups when having instrutors, I wouldn't class myself as an expert skier. This makes it so difficult when buying ski's. The guy in the shop where I bought mine said, most people that describe themseves as experts aren't and viceversa. He's probably got a point.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| smileyfatchops wrote: |
| The question is, what does intermediate and expert really mean.?? |
Those terms are almost meaningless.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Expert: someone who thinks they know it all. Will only give answers, never ask questions.
Intermediate: someone who knows they don't know it all, will ask questions and give answers.
What do you think?
(alternatively, I think rob gives a very good answer)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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yeah, totally meaningless, in my view, certainly in about 90% of the time if youre a recreational piste skiier then i dont think you can class yourself as "expert"! for me being an expert has nothing to do with skiing the piste, more about being a UIAGM mountain guide!. all these categories people seem to like is absolute shite, i mean for gods sake just 'cos you can parrallel down a black dosent make you a bloody expert, had some 10 year old intro himself to me as an expert when i used to run a ski shop in ADH, i could stop laughing so much i think his parents were starting to take offence!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think a self-styled 'expert' in just about anything is suspect. Actually, thinking about it, that's what Wear The Fox Hat has just said... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've just got back from my 3rd ski holiday and was suprised to read that I was using Fischer's top end race ski. I'm a pretty confident if not competent skier and had an absolute ball on the red runs. The only time it got a bit scary was on the very bumpy sections.
I'll definitely be getting Premium ski's next time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ardsian, are you sure? there are many subtle variations to the labelling, which mean BIG differences to the actual plant - I'll wager you were on Fischer RC4 Race/world Cup SC's right?
Great carver, but a country mile from their top end kit..
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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red 27. No, like I said, I was very surprised myself but they were the World Cup RC's.
Out of interest, what difference would I notice in the SC's and would they be a better bet for my limited ability? I hoping to get away again in a few weeks!
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I have been sking now for 8 weeks on My Fischer RX8's. It is only in the last couple of weeks where I feel I have started to use them properly and get the best out of them. There is still a long way to go with the, but I feel had I gone for a softer/easier ski then I would now be looking to replace them. I don't think they have held me up though.
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Ardsian, I'm not really qulified to answer with confidence, but I'd say they'd need less pressure to make them turn, and I would say yes better for your ability, and more fun
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulio, If you enjoyed skiing on the skis, what's the problem? The skis you would have been on are not the skis that a racer would use, they are way,way stiffer and much mor aggresive. The skis you used are a very much softer model and much easier to use, than real race skis.
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OK, lets re-word the Marketing.
Expert Skis = High Quality, Well Made.
Everything else; Beginners -Advanced = Poor Quality.
That should wake a few up. 
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FAQ
