Was thinking of trying out some ski touring in April/May just as a taster to see if it's something I could pick up as a hobby...
Firstly, I've looked up a few sites and read stuff on Freshtracks, eagle ski, and mountain tracks whether these are weekend tours or week long ones.
Any opinions on these or where to go around that time of year.
I only have alpine boots (Salomon Xwave). Would these be suitable if I rent some skis with detachable bindings or would you recommend the proper boots to rent? I understand there's a difference in performnce trade off but in aid of skinning up the mountain.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
GordonFreeman, You'll spend much more time going uphill. So go for the touring boots. You won't do that much downhill (compared to a resort holiday) anyway. April is fine.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
GordonFreeman, the touring "season" in the Alps doesn't really start until quite late so going in April or even May shouldn't be too much of a problem. IMHO you should maybe try some "day tours" before committing to a whole week but that's really up to you
I've done many a day tour using Alpine boots but it must be said these were ones which did not give me any heel rubbing problems when going uphill. The major disadvantage was when it came to climbing on rock or other hard surface where of course they have no grip.
I would strongly recommend a proper touring binding and would avoid the "Securafix" clip in type or whatever they're called. You can rent touring skis + skins but again for week long epics you may prefer to get your own gear.
GordonFreeman, I did a week's ski touring with Alpine boots, as did a friend (Flyer). Flyer was fine. However, my alpine boots picked up an old Achilles tendon scar - and despite using Compeed and so forth, I wound up with 2"x4" patch of skin being ripped away. I think my problem was unusual, even so, I would recommend touring boots if they are properly fitted for your feet (and the getting some time in on them before going on the tour proper). Touring boots not only have the flexibility for walking, they also have Vibram (or similar) soles and can therefore give much safer grip when one's skis are off in exposed conditions. I would NOT recommend hiring boots, though.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
achilles, Well, then there's a problem because I would want to try touring out before buying proper touring boots and equipment. So, I either rent and get blisters or use my alpine boots, which I imagine are fairly stiff and do not have a walk mode...Xwave 8.
ski, why does the season start later in the year...due to temperature? I imagined ski touring could be done at any time...
I did a weeks tour last year with Mountain Tracks with regular Salamon downhill boots, no problem at all, though the guide insisted that I should upgrade next time. I have now bought some Scarpa touring boots and they clearly do have some big advantages, lighter, grip on sole, much softer more flexible and with a walk mode that helps loosen up for the walks. They did take a couple of days to bed in, so I would not recomend turning up with new touring boots at the beginning of a week long tour.
With regards time walking up to skiing down, you can look for some of the tours that utilise lifts where possible, so that can reduce the walking time to 3-4 hrs per day max - a good introduction to the more serious stuff..
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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GordonFreeman, You need a decent snow pack - so end of the winter is better. Longer days help too ! Most of the mountain huts don't open 'til March. Touring boots don't have such an agressive fit as downhill, so renting ought to be OK. If you have custom footbeds in your dh boots, use them in the touring boots (remember to remove the orginal one first).
On multiday tours, several pairs of socks, for different days, help with blistering.
After all it is free
After all it is free
GordonFreeman, As I said, I think I was particularly unlucky. I was advised to use my Alpine boots (Xwave 8s as well, BTW) rather than hire. Yoda's advice to try a one day is very good - it was a one-day tour from Saas Fee (arranged by the SCGB rep through the Guides'office) that got me hooked into the week holiday. As long as you specify that you will be trying out touring and will be using alpine boots, you should be fine. With the some clips slack, you should be able to walk OK, and I would hope the guide will not take you into areas where sole grip was a problem - but do check before you commit.
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Ok. Out of interest, how much performance difference is there between touring boots and alpine...especially the newer models that seem to combine both. It seems a waste to have 1 pair of boots to do the different things but worried about the softer flex of touring boots if I happen to want a day tearing up the piste and easily accessible off piste areas.
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GordonFreeman, my Garmont and Scarpa touring boots don't have a particularly soft flex imo, (although I don't wear racing boots for the piste ). They do tend to have slightly lower cuffs so the amount of "leverage" applicable by the lower leg may be reduced but personally I don't find this a problem. In fact I'm unlikely to ever buy another pair of "piste only" boots
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For day tours Alpine boots are fine. Try a couple of day tours with your normal boots and if you like it you can buy boots (and next time you buy skis put touring bindings on them).
I have only done (quite a few) day tours and one 4 day tour.
I decided I didn't really enjoy the climbing enough for itself so proper touring wasn't for me. However I was very much in favour of a bit of skinning to get to good skiing when the accessible off piste was tracked out. An hour of skinning, or perhaps two hours maximum, for the sake of making the first tracks down a mountain are a good deal.
Consequently I have not bought touring boots and I probably do about 3 or 4 days (out of 24) that include some skinning per year.
But I have put some tough touring bindings (Fritschi Freeride X) on my new Scott Missions (which are fairly much like normal Alpine bindings the rest of the time). Hiring touring skis you can end up with good skis or, in smaller places not known for off piste, they can be really bad and spoil the skiing for you.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
At this stage that sounds good, a few days here and there. If I like it then the balance between on piste / off piste / touring will change and I'll get some freeride skis and new equipment but it's too early to say I think.
So question is still whether touring or alpine boots. Maybe I'll try a day or 2 touring first as you all suggested and go from there. Would a weekend be too much on alpine boots?
snowball, how do you manage 24 days skiing a year?!?! At once a month from December to May I could probably only manage 18!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
GordonFreeman, If you go to Klosters, they have an awesome hire store called Gotschna Sport which specialises in touring equipment. You will be able to hire and try many different boots and many different skis. Also you will be able to try the 3 main bindings, Dynafit and the Fritschi / Naxo style. In terms of tours there are lots of day tours that you can try around this area and if you feel brave it is a good location for multi day tours.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
GordonFreeman wrote:
So question is still whether touring or alpine boots. Maybe I'll try a day or 2 touring first as you all suggested and go from there. Would a weekend be too much on alpine boots?
snowball, how do you manage 24 days skiing a year?!?! At once a month from December to May I could probably only manage 18!
Alpine boots for 2 days should be fine as long as they are comfortable. Personally I tend to keep the top buckle relatively loose anyway so my last skin (a bit over an hour) I didn't even bother to loosen my boots..
I do three 8 day holidays.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 4-02-08 17:39; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Get touring gear! It offers far more opportunities and is lighter (a big advantage when having to carry your and your partner's skis onto bubbles as well as when hoiking them up unskinnable stuff.)
Having taken up skiing after a 20 year break (mostly filled with mountaineering) I scrounged old gear until I had tried touring. Once hooked I bought touring kit with freerides and Scarpa Denalis with custom liner. It is the most comfortable equipment I have ever used, is light and I use it all the time. I have the option to go up if I want and can walk comfortably and safely when not on skis. Also have never felt at a disadvantage, in terms of speed or safety, to other people I ski with.
The only drawback is if I want to hire skis - shouldn't use vibram soles in conventional downhill bindings. The hire shop guy in Tignes, who was insistent I took out a set of brand new top spec downhill skis on hire, gave me some sage advice "It is fine with your boots, just decide not to fall!"
I would recommend Pyrenean Mountain Tours (http://www.pyrenees.co.uk/2005%20Webpages/Ski%20Touring/Pnp.html) for an introduction. They can fix you up with hire gear, etc. and run a huge variety of trips from resort-based off-piste to full on tours.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
SCGB organise some touring holidays and also what they call safari holidays which only do a lttle skinning and stay much of the time in hotels (using lifts a fair amount but skiing from resort to resort- a compromise between an off-piste resort based skiing holiday and touring.). I have done a couple of the latter and enjoyed them.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If your alpine ski boots are comfy then they will probably be alright for a bit of day touring. Once you get into 5 hour skinning the extra weight and lack of flexibility of touring boots will be a boon.
I would definitely recommend hiring stuff while you try it out. Most resorts in traditional touring areas will hire out skis with touring bindings/skins/harcheisen etc. That way you have two benefits before you commit to buying - firstly you get to actually try stuff and see how it works, secondly you can check out all your co-tourers and compare notes/equipment - they will probably have a very wide range of kit for you to look at and an equally large pile of annecdotes/experiences which may sway you one way or the other before a purchase.
the advice regarding touring boots in normal downhill bindings is sensible and easily overlooked - they just won't release properly.
fwiw, I would recommend getting into it via day tours and safaris (lift and skinning usually in hotels) rather than diving into a big hut-to-hut jobby.
But you might try and get at least a night in a hut. They are an interesting experience and have a marmite like affect on people....
d
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
GordonFreeman, I recommend essentially the same thing as snowball said. I've done a couple of full week-long tours, and maybe 20 days daytouring/safari. The safari idea is great in that you get to use the lifts where possible, and then skin to get away from the masses. Of course that doesn't quite achieve the zen of being completely away from the crowds all day (and the setting out from the hut just as the first rays of the sun kiss the virgin mountain-tops etc. ), but it gives you a much more even balance of time spent skinning and skiing.
For a few years (up until last year) I used touring boots both for touring and regular skiing, but am now skiing that bit more aggressively that the added performance of regular alpine boots is welcome. In particular the lower cuff mentioned by Yoda did actually cause me some discomfort, leaving me with quite bruised lower shins. I would certainly recommend sticking with your existing boots for a few day tours (maybe up to 3hrs skinning/day) until you know you like it. Except if you do stuff where you need to be clambering over rocks to summit there is no major downside (I've had some good long walks out in my alpine boots with no major issues), except that you will get a bit more tired as alpine boots are quite a bit heavier.
(and this year I'm only getting 31 days on the snow )
Okay, sounds like something I will try out on a ski weekend maybe with my usual on and off piste stuff.
The maybe go for a full weekend next year...
GrahamN, 31 days!!!!! I don't know how you guys manage it. Friday to Monday weekends suck up half my annual leave as it is let alone doing more. Maybe I need to start doing Sat/Sun skiing only.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
re. the zen of getting away from the crowds.
This is absolutely the best thing about the touring issue. But it really doesn't require a 5 hour hike. I've just come back from Zermatt from a week of this sort of thing and within 5 minutes of heading off in various directions (albeit from the edge of the lift system) we were (apparently) in the middle of nowhere. Given that there were 1000s of people in the resort it really was quite amazing.
The day touring options in Zermatt/Cervinia/Monte Rosa area are great - the most fantastic glacial scenery and sublime views all round.
My only worry is that everyone will want to do it.
.... the most fantastic glacial scenery and sublime views all round
something like this then ... (it gets bigger if you click it )
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 4-02-08 22:56; edited 3 times in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
GordonFreeman,
Quote:
thinking of trying out some ski touring in April/May just as a taster
Gordon - don't forget that you've got some incredible touring possibilities in Scotland. April into May are often the best times, with long days, settled weather & loads of snow up high (which you often don't see from the valley level!) Here's a short report from a 2-day tour I did in late April 2006 on the Winterhighland backcountry report
i did several short tours recently in alpine boots without problem. and i have 30 days SO FAR this season with a couple more weeks to come but i work for myself so just make less dough...
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ANy sites apart from Eagle ski and SCGB that might be worth checking out for ski touring?
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GordonFreeman, In Epicski they talk about back country.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
GordonFreeman, couloir magazine (if it's still going); wildsnow.com; telemarktips for lots of general information
there are plenty of guiding businesses which offer commercial trips but the ESC and the SCGB are have the biggest "club" offerings in the UK as far as I know
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
My general impression from the ESC and SCGB was that it wasn't my age group though I'd really like to try a few day trips first
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
the ESC has its fair share of oldies but I started doing stuff with them when i was 28ish
they actually have grants etc for young people getting into the sport which they are very keen on people taking up - the website has details
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
As a bit of pre trip prparation here is a short film demonstrating the use of touring gear in late spring snow conditions!
I don't know if off-piste guiding companies such as Alpine Experience in Val d'Isere organise any "public" off piste groups as well as ordinary off piste. (Of course they do private bookings, but that's expensive).
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just looked - Here they are. All Alpine Experience guides speak good English (or are British / Australian etc). They are more beginner / intermediate oriented than TopSki who are Intermediate / Expert)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
GordonFreeman, 'Age group' - are you looking to tour or are you looking to go an 18-30? Try and Eagle's tour for beginners, I assure you that the experience, skiign and scenary will keep you exhilarated and concerns that there aren't any cute 21 yrs old chicks to distract you will be the last thing on your mind.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
GordonFreeman wrote:
My general impression from the ESC and SCGB was that it wasn't my age group though I'd really like to try a few day trips first
In my experience people who go touring tend to be a little bit older than the average skier anyway.
I think it's probably because people obviously start skiing on piste, then progress to off piste, then at some later stage look for another challenge or different experience.
I certainly think that is true about most British holiday skiers, although for locals who have lived in or near the mountains all their lives I feel that there are probably more younger ski tourers.
GordonFreeman, 'Age group' - are you looking to tour or are you looking to go an 18-30? Try and Eagle's tour for beginners, I assure you that the experience, skiign and scenary will keep you exhilarated and concerns that there aren't any cute 21 yrs old chicks to distract you will be the last thing on your mind.
Just a few might be good
I know what you mean though...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
GordonFreeman, We took a 17 yr old touring a few years back. He got nicknamed 'Puppy'. All kinds of digs all week about baskets (not the thing on the end of your stick), leads, and water bowls.......
richjp, one thought: to go touring you really need to be confident on a wide variety of snow conditions (you [edit]can't[/edit] easily avoid icy windblown snowpack or breakable crust if it it's on your route). That does usually mean a fair bit of experience, and so the average age of a touring skier is likely to be older than others.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 7-02-08 15:29; edited 1 time in total
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
achilles, I imagine you meant "Can't easily avoid"
After all it is free
After all it is free
snowball, your imagination is perspicacious and correct.
Edited.
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GordonFreeman wrote:
Was thinking of trying out some ski touring in April/May just as a taster to see if it's something I could pick up as a hobby...
Firstly, I've looked up a few sites and read stuff on Freshtracks, eagle ski, and mountain tracks whether these are weekend tours or week long ones.
Any opinions on these or where to go around that time of year.
I only have alpine boots (Salomon Xwave). Would these be suitable if I rent some skis with detachable bindings or would you recommend the proper boots to rent? I understand there's a difference in performnce trade off but in aid of skinning up the mountain.
Find a place where they have a lot of touring equipment for hire, a place where they preferably have a decent boot fitter. Explain that you are thinking of buying some touring boots get him/her to look at your feet and recommend a couple of touring boots then rent them. Try different pairs on different days, try your alpine boots on a small tourto compare. The choice is getting harder because there are many more touring boots on the market these days. Loosen off your ski touring boot but not so much that your foot slides around inside the boot as friction leads to blisters. Take a Compeed blister pack just in case. http://www.simply-outdoors.co.uk/BrandCategoryList/mcs/Brand/Compeed/Category/Blister+Care+and+Insoles/BrandID/14/CategoryID/150/v/
There are many small hills, you don't have to jump into full day (or even multiday) tours. Many ski resorts will also offer ski tours so if the ski touring is not for you then at least you can revert to normal alpine skiing rather than having to stay with the touring group for a few days.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 7-02-08 20:39; edited 1 time in total
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richjp wrote:
GordonFreeman wrote:
My general impression from the ESC and SCGB was that it wasn't my age group though I'd really like to try a few day trips first
In my experience people who go touring tend to be a little bit older than the average skier anyway.
...
I certainly think that is true about most British holiday skiers, although for locals who have lived in or near the mountains all their lives I feel that there are probably more younger ski tourers.
I'd agree about that: we Brits tend to be a bit older, going for the touring option only once we've accumulated enough discernment . Certainly seen plenty of cute 20/30-something 'forrin chicks'...but their bf's tend to be a bit on the rough side!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
but that's really up to you 
)
...
but i work for myself so just make less dough...
