 Poster: A snowHead
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Just how good do you have to be exactly before doing an instructor course? You often see these things advertised in Fall-Line magazine and others and struck me as curious...
Season long courses I think they are...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GordonFreeman, not very.... normal UK 'punter' level after a couple a weeks a year for 5 years or so is enough I reckon... be fit though, and it's no holiday!
what ever you've learned will be 'wrong' and you'll need to start again with 'their' method - as per professional instruction in anything really...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just that every instructor I have ever come across was either a racer or lived in the mountains for years and knows it inside out...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GordonFreeman, it depends on how far up the qualification ladder you want to climb. In the British system (BASI) the first couple of levels are not very demanding, although it helps if you have had lots of good quality instruction yourself as the courses require a reasonable degree of technical precision to pass. There is a big step up to the next Level (ISIA standard) and an even larger step up to the top level (ISTD). You will need to have skied a lot and worked hard on your technical and teaching performance to reach ISIA and to get to ISTD you need to ski full-time for some time before you stand a chance of reaching the level required.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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what level are most european ski school instructors at do you think?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GordonFreeman, in France most are at ISTD, I have no recent experience of instructors in other countries but I have some friends who teach in Switzerland with ISIA and the level below that (which is the minimum level necessary to teach there).
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GordonFreeman, If you want to know where you're at, come up to Hemel, have a ski and I'll tell you.
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GordonFreeman, that's a useful offer from Spyderman. He was very helpful in preparing me for the first level BASI course I did earlier this season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar,
Are you doing the BASI level 2 at the moment? How did you find the BASI 1 technique wise?
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| GordonFreeman, If you want to know where you're at, come up to Hemel, have a ski and I'll tell you. |
Hemel Hempstead?
Just kind of out of interest really...or as a short 12 week career break type of thing.
I doubt I'm good enough as I'm just recreational although I've skied for a while but can't do steeps, moguls, or efficient off piste yet...all in the plan for lessons in the next few weeks! 
How many BASI levels are there?
What about CASI and NZSIA ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GordonFreeman, Come to Hemel anyway and be sociable! Depending on what you want to do instructing wise you wouldn't necessarily need to progress beyond BASI level 1. That would qualify you to teach on artificial slopes in the UK. However, once qualified and you've got the bug, you may well want to go on to do Level 2. Anything beyond that-see rob@rar's post above re ISIA and ISTD.[/b]
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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GordonFreeman, 4 BASI levels
Ski Instructor level 1 - Trained to teach skiing up to parallel standard in artificial ski slopes
Ski Instructor level 2 - Trained to teach skiing up to parallel standard on piste in an open mountain environment
Ski Teacher ISIA - Trained to teach all levels of skiing on and off piste (within the resort boundry) within a ski school.
Ski Teacher Diploma ISTD - The highest level of ski instructor, can teach skiing off piste anywhere except for glaciated terrain or where the use of ropes or ice axes are planned. Can operate autonomously or within a ski school.
BASI Trainer - An ISTD who is selected by BASI to train instructors.
usual standard for L1 is Be able to ski confidently, coping with a variety of conditions and have completed at least 16 weeks on snow. Ski confidently parallel on black runs, being able to make rhythmical turns close to the fall line at a steady pace. Be able to ski confidently and in control in off-piste conditions
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GordonFreeman, You may have left it a bit late for this winter... BASI L1 courses are available during the summer. Snowsport England also have a coaching scheme for dryslopes and racing.
What no-one has mentioned so far is that to get ISTD (and therefore be able to work in France) you'll need to do the Speed Test, which is a very high standard .. near Europa Cup level. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Are there alternatives to doing an instructor course but getting the same level of technique and experience over 12 weeks/season?
Seems like the only courses for this are in fact instructor courses.
ski, yeah I didn't mean to start this year although there is always New Zealand from June to September!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GordonFreeman, I don't think anyone packages a 12-week long course that isn't for instructors.
These courses were created to empty the wallets of parents with Gap-year children. You can still gain qualifications by doing individual courses. There is nothing to stop you creating your own !
It's worth remembering that a fair amount of an instructor course will be about being an instructor (client care, teaching skills etc), which won't directly improve your skiiing. What you will find is that the skiing part tends to be more focussed (by the trainers and trainees - there are tests to pass) than in a public course. On the other hand the best skiers I know aren't instructors.
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Poster: A snowHead
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ski, like specific BASI courses? Presumably though you have to go to a resort with a BASI centre?
I'm really looking into the possibility of something to do over a few months and improve my skiing rather than aiming to become an instructor. Although if you're doing all the courses anyway, it might be a useful qualification...you knever know.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GordonFreeman, Have a look at the BASI website (www.basi.org.uk) for details of their courses. You can do individual courses rather than the Gap course.
You could book several weeks with the likes of Phil Smith, or Sally Chapman rather than BASI, and then not waste time learning to teach if that's not what you want out of it. A week offpiste with a guide is a good plan too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ski, thanks, I'll have a look.
Although for this year my only option would be New Zealand I think...say the Warren Smith stuff
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Do you have sort the teaching placement out first or once you have done the instruction course. How does it work at somewhere like the snowdome, do you have to have the qualification to work there or get a job then get the qualification.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jtobin03, at snowdome qualify first then apply for a job. As part of your L1 course you must do 35 hours of shadowing before you are awarded your license. The snowdome is generally quite happy to have you shadow and once you are a "face" there it can only help getting paid employment as a qualified instructor IMO
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hywel wrote: |
rob@rar,
Are you doing the BASI level 2 at the moment? How did you find the BASI 1 technique wise? |
I did the L1 course last December and I'm doing the L2 course in March. The L1 course was very enjoyable, split 50:50 into teaching elements (BASI's Central Theme) and personal performance. I've skied a fair amount and have had a lot of high quality instruction in recent years, but still found the Central Theme stuff to be tricky to perform. It was a bit of an insight to my skiing and technique generally, but doing snowploughs in a particular way is not going to be everyone's cup of tea.
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
| I'm really looking into the possibility of something to do over a few months and improve my skiing rather than aiming to become an instructor. |
If that's the case the BASI route is not the right one for you. Better to spend that time and money on personal performance courses.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| GordonFreeman wrote: |
| I'm really looking into the possibility of something to do over a few months and improve my skiing rather than aiming to become an instructor. |
If that's the case the BASI route is not the right one for you. Better to spend that time and money on personal performance courses. |
Yes, but for that amount of time it would have to be some sort of group courses as well. Obviously with an instructor course you get a load of similar minded people in the same place for the same duration so get to know a few more people about whereas individual courses from time to time would be quite a bit different.
...unless there are long performance courses but I imagine most of these are week or 2 week long courses to tie in with people's holiday plans!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
Yes, but for that amount of time it would have to be some sort of group courses as well. Obviously with an instructor course you get a load of similar minded people in the same place for the same duration so get to know a few more people about whereas individual courses from time to time would be quite a bit different.
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I don't think that's such a big issue. As well as starting on the BASI process I've done a lot of personal performance courses with Snoworks. You always meet like-minded people on those courses, the instruction is first rate and you will be stretched much more than a gap course designed to get you through BASI L1. You also have a far wider range of skiing with something like Snoworks than you will with a gap programme: race, off-piste, backcountry; technical, etc. The gap courses are designed to satisfy the BASI requirements rather than push the group as far as they can go.
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| GordonFreeman wrote: |
ski, thanks, I'll have a look.
Although for this year my only option would be New Zealand I think...say the Warren Smith stuff |
Try this for another summer option. It's an amazing few weeks of skiing which I'd love to do one year.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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try the rookie academy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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FWIW, they do courses in the UK for Level 1. I'm doing the course at Tamworth in May. I don't want to teach in the mountains, so this will be fine for me and some of us can't take a year off to go to France and learn!
Having said that, I'd be tempted to train over the next few years for Level 2, just because it is a challenge that will develop my ski technique further, and to give a focus to my skiing improvement. I've been taught right from the start by BASI system, and done Snoworks courses, and also lessons with BASI trainers, and they are excellent.
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rob@rar, That looks pretty interesting if a little pricey but could be a great experience. Hmm 
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