 Poster: A snowHead
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anyone buy their own? if so what model?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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BCA Tracker.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ditto
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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where from?
probe and shovel too?
Are Recco's worth it? I know they're not receivers just transmitters but...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I bought mine in the US, facewest do them. You have to have all three.
I read a large study recently that demonstrated that should you be totally buried then your survival chances rise from 29% to45% through having the correct equipment.
Reccos are cheap but will not in any way substitute for the holy trinity. If you go off piste you need to have them and both you and your similarly equipped pals need to know how to use them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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also off piste in the sense here means backcountry doesn't it?
an off piste section on the side of some groomers, say throught the trees probably doesn't need it?
I'm just wondering whether it's worth the investment. I want to do more and more off piste but might just be worth renting and anywhere I go seriously back country, I'm definitely getting a guide who should have some equipment we can rent?
I kind of like having my own gear though ! You'd probably have to buy 2 to give to your mate who wouldn't have one 
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I always find threads like these scary. If you're asking if you need to buy a shovel and probe, there's not much point in wearing a beacon. You're wearing it to save other peoples lives, not your own. Invest in the education and rent the gear if you must.
Sorry to be all preachy, but people treating beacons like avalanche forcefields is the reason more and more people are dying in slides. For what it's worth, Recco is an over-marketed corpse retrieval system.
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Off piste is off piste - if you start trying to sperate it into back-country/ side-country/ tree riding then the seriousness of the potential dangers start to get blurred. Then there's the risks of avalanches hitting pisted runs.
If you go off-piste you need a tranceiver, probe and shovel EACH, and you need to be familiar with how to use the equipment. Without meaning to sound patronising, if you're asking if this equipment is necessary then I'm fairly sure you aren't confident in assessing terrain and conditions for the potential avalanche risks. I've just started learning about this and it's pretty complicated, thus I take all my kit whenever there's even a chance I'll be going off-piste. I figure it just isn't worth the risk, plus as DaveC, points out, it's also about the responsibilty you have to the other people you'll be skiing with.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not preaching, I appreciate we're on the side of a mountain! I was just asking out of curiosity. I had actually planned to do an avalnche course at some point and am currently readint through Freeskiing.
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Well then we're all agreed! Now you have to decide which tranceiver to get. Let's open up that debate;
The advice given in our shop when people ask about avalanche kit is as follows;
Probes - around 240cm. Never less than 200.
Shovels - metal. Better cutting edge and less reverb when striking hard snow means more efficient cutting/digging.
Tranceivers - we sell the Mammut Pulse and the BCA Tracker. Pulse is the best tranceiver available, simple to use whilst having lots of functions including extremely simple and effective multiple signal location and separation. The Tracker is considered to be the best in terms of cost to simplicity/efficiency. I went for the Tracker.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Next question...
How much would it cost to rent these in resort?
Trying to work out whether it's better to do that each time just for a few days than buy it all.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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IMHO it's not worth renting, it's better to have your own stuff with you every day, remember if you see a slide you should go help if possible, what happens if you didn't rent equipment that day, and suddenly find a great route?
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There is a very good, up to date, pretty scientific but practical site from the US called BeaconReviews.com which makes interesting reading
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You know it makes sense.
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http://www.snowbigdeal.com/servlet/StoreFront
This company has great deals, I hve used them twice with great service (i'm not on commision)
Please note Reco are NOT trancievers and require a rescue team to have the correct Kit. You will probably be dead by the time a team with a recco rescue kit get to the avalache.
Most of the time you need to rely on your mates you are skiing with to find you!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GordonFreeman, just to add to the costs... You might like to think about getting an ABS avalanche airbag. It seems that they really are effective at keeping you at the surface of a slide. I see more and more guides are using them these days, and the German Alpine Club DAV mandates them for any guided tours that they do. Expensive, but good!
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Poster: A snowHead
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ABS avalanche airbag.
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And very heavy
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just to add to the options, I use an Arva Evolution+. It's effective, simple to use and cheap...though it's probably bulkier than some of the newer models.
I got mine from Sport Conrad, in a package with a probe and metal shovel...definitely worthwhile, and relatively affordable (relative to not getting dug out, anyway!).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Martin Nicholas, I use one. Can't say I find it excessively heavy, and if it keeps me on the surface in a slide them I'm willing to live with the weight. Mind you I don't do long tours, just lift assisted freeriding with maybe 1/2 to 1 hour of walking up.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I just came off a 6 day mountain safety course and had done numerous tranceiver searches . 3 of us had trackers. They are S**t compared with the newer Barryvox/mammut or Ortovox ones. The M2 had great range easy to use and home in with the S1 being great for multi burials but more practice needed to use well.
The BCA for single burials was easy to use but had limited range and gave conflicting directional info.
During multiple simulated burials the trackers get confused easily and reset. They dont update as fast and you have to move them very slowly or they reset. The range was around only half that of the other guys perhaps 60% to be generous. Personally i wouldnt trust it to have more than 20 metre range where the others were getting strong signals up to 60 metres.
one guy literaly skipped his bca tracker and bought an M2 saying he wouldnt sell it/give it to anyone as he was so uncomfortable with it.
If i had to buy a new one i would go with a M2 as an easy to use all rounder with great range. There are other models to consider but of the 4 i saw this one stood out. I havent used a pulse and the owners of a touring shop where very pro pulse
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skimottaret, that's very interesting. I've done multiple burial drils with my Tracker without any problems. Can you explain what you mean by them 'resetting' as I've not experienced that.
Range can be an issue & if I keep the Tracker static then I too only get readings up to 20/25m however if the Tracker is swept horizontally (as described in the manual) then I can easily get 50m readings & have a 60m reading.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Martin Nicholas, they are not very heavy although there is some extra weight. I agree with Steilhang that the small extra weight is worth it and I also do lift assisted off piste skiing with a bit of walking, but not big tours.
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Recommending an ABS pack to the guy "just getting into off piste" is probably a little OTT Personally, I'd recommend an Avalung first if you want to take that extra measure, as there's no fiddling around with cartridges or worrying about flying with it.
I'd definately recommend a Pulse, and a probe no shorter than 240 - I was strongly recommended/told to get a 300cm probe as it's not really any issue to carry longer and only slightly more expensive. Shovel - plastic sucks, as NZK explained.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| NAKEDZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Off piste is off piste - if you start trying to sperate it into back-country/ side-country/ tree riding then the seriousness of the potential dangers start to get blurred. |
That's true from a European perspective, but not from an American one. Unless otherwise marked, all American "inbounds" skiing - piste or off-piste will be avalanche controlled. It doesn't eradicate the risk, but the risk is so small as to be negligible.
As oft-said, there's no such things as being a little off-piste in Europe.
I agree with everything else you said.
| DaveC wrote: |
I always find threads like these scary. If you're asking if you need to buy a shovel and probe, there's not much point in wearing a beacon. You're wearing it to save other peoples lives, not your own. Invest in the education and rent the gear if you must.
Sorry to be all preachy, but people treating beacons like avalanche forcefields is the reason more and more people are dying in slides. For what it's worth, Recco is an over-marketed corpse retrieval system. |
I agree with the sentiment. Renting is better than not having. But transceivers are hard to use well and you're ultimately better off having kit that you know inside out, rather than just being able to muddle through with.
I have a Barryvox/Mammut Pulse. It's fantastically easy to use. But the functionality that could make a difference is (if you'll excuse the pun) buried. And it's not going to help if it's someone you care about and panicing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skimottaret, interesting reaction. I always preferred the M2 as well, and also found the BCA waaay to slow on updating, but always felt that a proper directional indicator would help matters. At least the Tracker's better than the truly gash Ortovox X1. I have no experience with the D1.
I hired for several years waiting for a unit I was happy with. After a brief session with rob@rar's at last year's Richmond Park search, I now have a Barryvox/Mammut Pulse and think it's largely the DBs. Dead simple to use in basic mode, superb range for a digital (way better than the BCAs I've tried it against), excellent (very fast) in pinpoint search mode and about as simple as you can get to do multiples. And if all else fails, dead simple to switch back into good old trusty analogue mode and pretend you've got an F1 (and I do know how to do a grid search). The only two downsides I've come across are a) it does pick up mobiles as transmitters of undetermined location and b) if transmitting transcievers in range move about it tends to think it's looking of multiples and can get a bit confused, requiring 10 secs or so to work out what's going on. b) is not a problem in a real scenario, but is a bit disconcerting in a group check scenario and when there are other skiers about nearby. It did then also get me to stop and stand still while it sorted itself rather more often than I'd like. I need more experience to determine if a) is a genuine problem.
Very happy with mine. Oh, and it looks cools too.
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GordonFreeman, if you're an SCGB member then you can rent one of theirs for £10 per week. Runs from Weds to Weds (to allow for postage times) so you'll normally need to hire for 2 weeks. I actually mostly hired for long weekends and live not too far from Wimbledon, so could drop in and pick one up, so only need 1week at a time. They have M2s, Trackers, X1s, old Barryvoxes and possibly even the odd F1. I would ask specifically for an M2.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just as a footnote, I have a Pieps that seems to pick up my ipod at 2m range. The distance shown is seemingly random as I presume it's an inconsistent signal strength. Phones & walkie talkies seem to be OK, even when calling, but my ipod (and my Mac, though I'm unlikely to have that about my person) does give a discernible false signal.
Consequently I'd advise against blogging whilst listening to music in avi terrain. Apple geeks be warned.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Cunners wrote: |
| Consequently I'd advise against blogging whilst listening to music in avi terrain. Apple geeks be warned. |
Noted, thanks
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are the M2's the Mammut Pulse's. The £18 membership for SCGB could be good. What are the other benefits?
Problem is a Tracker I would buy straight off cos it's cheaper and I'll get my money back within a few trips.
But a Pulse I think is too much for me, so if it's better then I would have to rent it and make sure I'm organised b4 each trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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£18 if you are under 24. £51 if not.
You get 2 seasons for the price of 1 if you join in resort.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hmm, misread that.
So, some say Tracker's are fine, some not.
hmm decisions decisions
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GordonFreeman, rather selfishly, you could buy a Tracker for yourself and encourage your friends to buy Pulses
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I think I'd prefer to have the Pulse and give trackers to my friends.
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As an aside...and not that I ever...ever want to try this...but how the hell do you breath when buried in snow.
Or is it that within 15minutes your body still has enough oxygen to just about keep going?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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How much tax did you pay? and how long did postage take? thanks
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As an aside...and not that I ever...ever want to try this...but how the hell do you breath when buried in snow
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Avalung. That is of course if you've managed to keep the mouthpiece in your mouth during the avalanche.
http://www.bdel.com/gear/avalung_ii.php
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FAQ
