 Poster: A snowHead
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I brought this up on the thread on the 50 age limit on Rep recruitment, but am keen to hear other views.
(Incedentally I'm not sure the 50 rule was ever hard and fast. 4 years ago, when I was 52 I was on a Gold standard SCGB holiday in La Grave, led by Caroline Stuart-Taylor. She asked me if I had thought of becoming a rep and I pointed out that I was over the age. She said "Well, exceptions can always be made").
However, what I wished to talk about is the rule that people over 60 cannot go on Ski Club holidays, except those few designated as for the over 50s (which in practice are for over 60s).
I remember that there was a rule about age in the past, but if someone over-age applied the leader of the holiday was given the option of accepting them, based on recent knowledge of their standard and fitless level.
Last year I went back to La Grave with the SCGB . We were led by Don H, who was 59. (He has his gold badge, but doesn't quite ski to that standard now, but is a lovely guy and a good leader). He pointed out that this was the last time he would be leading since leaders must be under 60. (I assume it is the same for reps).
However I notice he is back this year leading another Purple/Gold holiday to Alagna. What's going on here?
He also said they were clamping down on age limits generally and when I got to 60 (I am now 56) I wouldn't be allowed on these ski holidays any more and would have to ski with the over 50s holidays on the basis I wouldn't be able to keep up. (Some of my fellow skiers very kindly said this was unfair as I was the fastest skier on the holiday).
I am already finding it hard to find holidays of the standard I want. There was only one pure Gold standard holiday on the Ski Club books this year (which was on a date I couldn't do)!! Why? Is there really such a lack of good skiers wanting to go on these holidays?
One of my chief reasons for being a member is that the Ski Club run holidays where I can find people of my standard to ski with.
The La Grave holiday was Purple/Gold standard, but I was very disappointed by the caution of the guides - until the last day we had only skied one couloir (the easiest one) and couloirs are the point of La Grave, aren't they?
Perhaps they felt the group standard wasn't up to it? Are guides getting more worried about getting sued?
What will happen when I get to 60, which is only 3 1/2 years away? Most of the friends I ski with are much younger than I. Will I have to slow down and ski with strangers to stay with the SCGB?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes, I agree the grading system is generally good, and the idea of havingsome over 50s holidays is good in principal; but why this inflexibility on age? Surely the old system which made exceptions was better.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 20-11-04 16:03; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Looking at the rep photos on the website, lots of the blokes seem to be fairly old geezers. Some of them must be OAPs.
I stayed in Davos at the same hotel as a Ski Club holiday and the clientele were definitely pensioners. Good luck to them. At an age when many of their counterparts would be suffering from osteoporosis, they are still out on the slopes.
I hope I am able to do the same when I am their age.
I don't think Ski Club holidays will be an option though - a bit pricey for me and I am not on a pension yet.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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One problem with ski club holidays, but the higher standards particularly, is that they are quite expensive (even independent holidays which include an off-piste guide are quite expensive). The only people who can afford it and can ski well enough are likely to be middle aged. The occasional person who is young and well off and has managed to get up to near gold standard and tries an SCGB holiday find themselves surrounded by older people and probably don't come back.
I don't know what the solution is. Have the Ski Club tried cut-price guided holidays, or is this too far from their image of themselves to happen (and too far from other people's image of them to be noticed and thus work)?
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Snowball - Spot-on - I skied only once in a SCGB group holiday a few years ago and the apart from myself the age limit was late 50s onwards. Needless to say I have never re-booked a SCGB holiday.
The solution is that SCGB needs fundemental reform. I have now given up posting ( almost ) on the SCGB site and hope in time that a progressive leadership will eventually emerge. They need to get beyond the " comfort zone ".
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Actually, thinking about it, the club does not seem to have a firm age limit for its general holidays. On a general (safari) holiday, I know one of the other skiers is over 60. He skied (as a purple) at La Grave last year. He's going on this silver holiday as we like to have a laugh skiing together once a year.
hibernia, it's too late for this year, but why not put yourself forward for the council next year? If you want to change the leadership style, surely it's best to be pro-active, rather than wait at the edges.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well, that's confusing.
David Goldsmith said something in a PM about it having taken up most of a council meeting a couple of years ago (Can't think of any reason he might object to me telling). But he didn't say what the situation actually is.
Perhap your friend has managed to conceal his real age.
David, what is the current position?
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| snowball wrote: |
| ....Perhap your friend has managed to conceal his real age.... |
I'd be very surprised, it's not his style. He is very fit, though, and skis to a high standard. From personal experience, the Club does give closer scrutiny to what its older members are getting up to on more adventurous holidays. I was gently steered from a first choice to another - and was grateful for the advice.
I would guess that, as you edge into gold standard holidays (never likely in my case) the scrutiny would be even more rigorous.
I am sure a note to Caroline Boileau at the club would clear things up for you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, I hope so, but I'm already quite well known there I think, I've done about 2 SCGB holidays per year for quite a few years!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think this is ageism at it's worse, I'm 60 and I can still keep up (just)with my 28yr old son, a ski intructor and guide. He seems to be quite proud of introducing me as a ripper. I certainly intend to keep skiing into a disreputable old age
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David Goldsmith what is the official situation (if you know)?
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You know it makes sense.
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snowball, Suggest you post this on the SCGB site if you have not done so already. There were a couple of fit old bugs on the La Grave trip last year (I must have been on the earlier trip to you), the eldest, a 68 yo guy, organises his own trip, and invites SCGB members he's skied with on previous holidays. Maybe that's the way to go: organise your own, and cherry pick the people you've skied with who meet your standard. If you get enough people, it's certainly a lot cheaper than anything the SCGB can come up with.
FWIW, we only skied 3 couloirs, but we had a ball when the resort was avalanche-bound for 2 days, and we ended up in Les Terrasse, skiing deep, deep snow in the fields behind La Grave and using 4x4s to shuttle us back to the top. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Kit Wong, yes, I'm already tending that way. I've done one week like that the last 4 years, hiring good guides I'd skied with before. And this year, for the first time (when, it happens there are fewer SCGB holidays that suit me) I am doing 2 weeks like that and only one with the SCGB. It looks like it may soon be the only way to ski with a bunch of gold standards skiers and get really challenged, regardless of my age.. This year the Ski Club has only one holiday that might be like that and Caroline Stuart -Taylor is leading it. Will there still be one kept on when she stops wanting to lead? (Certainly even she seems a little more cautious now since she was in an Avalanche a few years ago).
On that La Grave trip last year afer I'd urged them again and again, we did finally, on the last day, do the couloir again plus 2 others, one of them twice, so that was a fun day. To compare, though, the first year I went, many years ago when I didn't ski quite so well, we did 7 couloirs on the second (or was it the third) day!
Most of the people I ski with are mid 40s, though one is my age and one or two younger.
Perhaps we may ski together one day. What are you doing this year? (I notice you haven't entered a profile).
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Poster: A snowHead
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snowball, I've not made plans for next season apart from a long weekend in December. Plans are a bit sketchy at the moment as my work may take me abroad. I would like to do a bit more touring, maybe with Ski Club or one of the Scottish clubs, as I've got the gear now. I'm sure one day are avalanche transceiver signals will cross.
Admin - have I been censored for 'bugars'[sic]? If yes, will 'bugars' be acceptable in the future? I hate bugs
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Kit Wong, isn't "bugar" something that one does to dahl in order to Tarka it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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snowball, sorry it's taken a couple of days to spot your query...and I'm afraid I can't answer it.
If you request a copy of the minutes of the 2002 annual general meeting of the Ski Club you'll see the discussion that took place about this. We were told at that meeting that the subject had taken up more time on Council during the year than any other (i.e. not one Council meeting).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Alan Craggs, Was it not the animal hunted in the Hunting of the Snark that turned out not to be a Snark?
Bugars it is then.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would have liked to have gone on the Reps course a couple of years ago but could not because of the over 50s rule. It seems unfair that my wife, who was a SCGB Rep 25 years ago could start again although she is older than me and not as keen a skier as I am.
The youngsters that I have been guided with lately seem more interested in high speed piste bashing than off-piste, even in perfect conditions. Might give the Meribel guide a try this New Year though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I came across this in the Holiday Information section of Ski Freshtracks.
"Age
The majority of holidays in this brochure are designed for adults aged between 18 and 60 years.There is an extensive programme of Peak Experience holidays which are open to anyone aged 50 years and over. Members aged over 60 years will be required to join the trips in this category. Additionally some specific holidays e.g. Families, Safaris and Tours, plus Christmas and New Year (except Off Piste Zone) groups are open to all ages. Under 20s weeks are for teenagers aged between 14 and 19 years. New Generation weeks are aimed at members in their 20s and 30s. If members aged over 60 yrs of exceptional skiing standard/fitness/stamina cannot find an appropriate standard holiday on a date to suit them in the 'Peak Experience' programme, the following are the circumstances when their booking may be accepted on a holiday outside the 'Peak Experience' programme:
You are at the upper end of the grading for that holiday.
You have received this grading on a Ski Freshtracks holiday during the previous/current season.
The leader/mountain guide can confirm that your standard, fitness and stamina are all suitable for the chosen holiday.
You have not sustained any injury or undergone any surgery since receiving this grading that may affect your standard/fitness/stamina."
So it looks like exceptions can be made, snowball, if you meet the 4 criteria.
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stuartsmith, welcome to s
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Thanks, stuartsmith, great relief. Now I just have to prevent any serious deterioration in my fitness in the next 3 years (and after)!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So do I design a 'snowheads' FAST FARTIES logo?
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No point. If it takes as long as the snowHeads hat and sticker, they'll all be dead farties.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What hat? 
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As someone who never felt any need to grow up I am always startled to realise that others don't see me as a teenager!
Since the off-piste I ski is as often crust or sludge as powder I reckon I'm a Crudhead, but I suppose I'll have to accept being a CRUDFART. However, while I'm still able, I insist on being an EXTREME CRUDFART.
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FAQ
) I suppose I'd better start worrying about this 
