 Poster: A snowHead
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Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 20-01-08 16:16; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I took some friends down last year. I always wear crampons, always! One of our party lost a crampon, i should have checked, but it remained attached to his leg via the strap. As he climbed back up to reattach it, i watched for English guys starting out on the arret, seemingly ready to ski the Piste. One shouted out to me in an deep brumy accent,
"Oi, are they all black piste or are there any red ones?"
To which i replied,
"Turn around and take the 'Bin back down, there are crevasses and avalanche dangers here."
Had i not have been there, these guys would have descended the arret and possibly got into trouble. I don't think equipping the arret is a problem, we can't be too cautious here, i think the problem lies at the ticket office, not making it clear to people what is up there. 60% of people are going up there to the viewing platform, not to ski or climb. This is for me where the problem lies. I would too like to see skiing down the arret outlawed, to the untrained eye, this removes the seriousness of the arret, making anyone believe it's a short walk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To somebody who has never been to Chamonix (been to Point Hellbroner from the Italian side), but is interested in the area.
Can somebody explain to me what is the arret? I assume its the narrow passage way down, why can't every ski down it?
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Christopher, Skiers left is a fall of 60° 3842m. Skiers right,a fall of 40° 300m. Width of arret approx 5m. Possible 150 people on the arret at one time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Christopher yes it's the path across the top from the tunnel leading from the lift
if you'd been on it you wouldnt dream of skiing it! walking across it is scary enough!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thank you, I now see why you would definatly want to walk it.
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... [edited]
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 21-01-08 9:32; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If the Chamonix authorities were genuinely concerned about safety on the VB, they would stop riders without a registered guide getting in the tram to the top.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Whitegold, That could never happen. How could the guides qualify without access to the routes they have to complete?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just skied off the Midi this lunchtime with a work colleague. High route is equipped with two ropes whilst lower appeared to have only one. We both used crampons and had ice-axe in hand for extra security (skis and poles secured on back-packs).
I agree with SZK that it should be made much clearer at the base of the lift that it accesses a high mountain, glaciated terrain. Equipping the arret full time seems to make sense. Plus, as a keen Darwinist I think natural selection is an important process that shouldn't be obstructed 
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NAKEDZOOKEEPER, I thought about popping up for a run, cheers for the heads up. JW
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You know it makes sense.
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I went skiing the backcountries of Midi first time in 1997. I was already pretty experienced, but I was really supprised that masses of people with not much experience went up there. I saw people struggling down the path (which was in horrible condition) and I saw many people were dead scared. It was damn windy up there and I thought someone will definitely soon fall to the north face of Midi. Well, nobody fell, but every year I have been skiing in Midi I wonder when someone is going to fall.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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just to be contrarian, maybe if they never equipped the arete it would do more to keep those who shouldn't be there away?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Preventing untrianed amatuer's on this route without a guide is very difficult becuase of Chamonix's history as an AT resort. It would be potentially harsh and unfair to bring in a rule such as that in St Anton on the Valluga descent i.e. only allowed on the route with a certified guide. Without though this rule you are always going to have amateurs trying the glacier.
Saying this some of the blame lies with the locals of Chamonix. When we are there in the summer we hired gear from a local store to walk the Mer de Glace. We asked how difficult it was and if we needed to hire ropes. The answer was fairly easy just watch out not to get lost on the way back and to having ropes the shop owner said it should be fine.
Both answers were way off base and although the stupidity lies firmly on my doorstep, we could have died that day and certainly this was partly down to irresponable advice from those that claim to have knowledge.
What needs to be done is that in every piece of marketing on the Vallee Blanche it should be made quite clear that this route should always be attempted ONLY with a guide and suitable mountaineering equipment. It should not mention the caveat unless you are an expert as true experts know this already.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| plectrum wrote: |
| Preventing untrianed amatuer's on this route without a guide is very difficult becuase of Chamonix's history as an AT resort. It would be potentially harsh and unfair to bring in a rule such as that in St Anton on the Valluga descent i.e. only allowed on the route with a certified guide. |
Thats not actually true. If you want to travel in the lift (Valluga2) with your skis you will only be able to with a certified guide.
However, you can hike up and ski without a problem, that's why you see so many folk doing just that 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The lifties at the midi are a bit twitchy at the moment about letting solo skiers on the lift.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have enjoyed reading the posts on this one - to me there is a clear split between those who have skied high mountain and those who haven't.
I watched someone ski the arrette (from the viewing platform) about two/three years ago when the conditions were terrible and even the steps hadn't been cut. His mate hadn't put his skis on and was hanging on with axes and Crampons and this guy was stood with skis stuck into the air either side. I had to look away as I really thought he was going to die and it made me feel sick inside. But he knew what he was doing and no doubt is still drinking in the Terrasse. First time I went up there, about 30 odd years ago, we had no intention of getting a guide and were good enough (technically) to ski down, thank heavens there was zero visibility and we sensibly took the cable back. Years later I realise the stupidity of taking the mountains lightly and we all should ask ourselves not just where our personal limits are (technical), but where we stand with our experience and knowledge of the mountains.
Putting ropes up on the arrette all season just doesn't matter as it's just one more step in the dumbing down process that is being applied to all walks of life but particularly to skiing right now. We are all so keen to point blame these days - how many people think that "if there is a lift there and people ski it, it must be safe and the company that provides the lift has to be responsible for our safety". Now there's a rope to help me down so it's fine to head down there, regardless of my level of ability or mountain knowledge. How many people do we see on the mountain today who just shouldn't be on that slope? Even on piste?
If Mont Blanc was in the UK it would have been closed long ago on health and safety or insurance grounds and some oik would have already sued for falling into a crevasse while wandering about without a guide. Well, thank heavens it isn't and we can continue to enjoy the mountains as they are. I'm happy my skiing career is in its' 'twilight' years as I see helmets everywhere, campaigns to stop drinking in ski resorts, ski areas being restricted and lifts closed at the drop of a hat (well a snow flake or two anyway). This sport and the mountains provide one of the last great freedoms out there and while we should encourage warnings to be posted and education to be improved, we should all resist any restrictions or every lift could become a Valluga 2 (and boy, does that one make me angry!)
After all, Darwin was probably right.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hobbesmonster, excellent rant about a 2-year-old new story 
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hobbesmonster, welcome to snowHeads.
I'd love to ski the Vallée Blanche - and by all accounts, my skiing is up to one of the easy versions, with a guide - but there's no way I can walk along that arête.  I've inspected it in the summer and it made me feel faint just looking at it.
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Hurtle, I skied the Valle Blanche with a group from the chalet I was staying in. It was 12 years ago, and even today I feel faint when I remember the walk along the arete....
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| Julieanne wrote: |
| Hurtle, I skied the Valle Blanche with a group (and a guardian angel-guide!). It was 12 years ago, and even today I feel faint when I remember the walk along the arete.... |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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.....
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this is the only photo I could find showing it looking "scary steep"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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daehwons, bloody hell! And I think what makes it worse is that it's the same on the other side.
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that pic is in the summer - in the winter the groove worn out by walkers turns into a thigh deep trench. you would have to try quite hard to fall out of it
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You know it makes sense.
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Arno, that's being rational. Reason doesn't come into this particular equation, unfortunately.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| daehwons, bloody hell! And I think what makes it worse is that it's the same on the other side. |
The other side is the better side I think..... better as in death is only 90% likely to happen
anyone have any stories or stats on people falling off.... percentages of fallers to deaths?
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Poster: A snowHead
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In 1995 six of us on a "boys trip" skied the vallee blanche with a guide. We'd skied 5-8 weeks each, so not beginners but still not exactly experienced ski mountainers either. The idea had been discussed prior to and the first day or two of the trip. We were encouraged by our butch, seemingly experienced chalet host to do it. And although she was of a mind a guide wasn't essential, it was probably a good idea in case the weather closed in, etc. We'd heard about the arrete (in essence that it was the scariest part of the experience) and of course in the lead up to the expedition there was immense amount of jesting and scaremongering about it. I have to admit I didn't sleep well the night before, struggled to consume my normal quantity of breakfast, and after the ride up in the cable car was not feeling exactly on top of my game!!!
A quick trip to the carsie with it's toilet bowls opening up into a sheer drop down the side of the mountain, and the stench, did nothing to help. I can be a bit daydreamy at the best of times but as we exited the building through that kind of short tunnel I was really NOT in full concentration mode. As a result I was the one roped up by the guide as the first in line. Yikes. I am tall and quite slim. Climbing down icy steps in skiing boots with my high centre of gravity is not ideal to start with. Throw in my yellow belly fear of death, an ice cold wind in the face, a propensity to getting cold hands when holding onto a rope in such conditions, furthered the discomfort of the situation. My buddy later recounted the "wookie" noises that periodically I uttered, along with nervous glances to the sides or backwards. What a ****ing nightmare. It seemed to take an age.
Not surprisingly I didn't ski it particularly well but it was an incredible experience, and I'll never forget that arrette!
Postscript is that I did it again with my now wife 7 years later in 2002, again with a guide. This time skiing a different route. On this occasion we were not roped up and I thought the arrette was a breeze. Intimidating still but perhaps it had more snow or had been better managed, and it just seemed a smoother "path".
Layne
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Eeep! You are supposed to walk down there and carry your skis??? I'd rather eat live spiders...
Apparently it's easier if you do the Vallée Blanche from the Courmayeur side (Punta Helbronner), you miss that hairy bit according to someone I was talking to in my hotel last season.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
If Mont Blanc was in the UK it would have been closed long ago on health and safety or insurance grounds and some oik would have already sued for falling into a crevasse while wandering about without a guide
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That's nonsense. There is plenty of scope for the stupid/unlucky/underequipped to kill themselves outdoors in the UK. The Scottish mountains claim around 25 deaths a year. I don't know how many are killed in the French mountains.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The day after I did the Arret (scaaary) and the Classic Route (with a guide, very nice but not hard) I had a terrible pain in my right wrist.
I realised it was serious post "excercise" type pain as I had been holding onto the rope VERY tightly the whole way down the Arret! I too was first in the roped line, I didn't enjoy that at all!
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Hurtle, if you can borrow some crampons it really isn't too bad. With your skis and poles attached to a back pack it's just like walking down some stairs. The problem is that it gets hard and icy from all the people walking down which makes it slippery. I don't use crampons but hold the rope with both hands and move down sideways on the steeper bits. It's a good upper body workout 
The access might be easier on the Italian side but the route down is steeper. It's much less skied though and can be combined with a descent of the Toula glacier. Now, that would be a good day!
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When we walked down (see photo above) it was skis and poles in one hand, hold rope with the left and pray no one you're roped to falls 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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one of the (several) things which bother me about the arret is the thought of somebody behind you slipping. I've been up the Aiguille du Midi a couple of times, and love the atmosphere but that arret gives me the willies. I could probably manage the easy route OK, with a guide, but like Hurtle, am really bothered about that horrible walk down. I'm just afraid I might freeze up and cause chaos. I also dislike the idea of a long walk out in ski boots - though I guess you could take a backpack with hiking boots, in which case it would be fine.
I'm astonished at the suggestion that some people ski down the arret - how does that work? On the zig zag route people walk down?
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bobinch, two (or maybe three) years ago pretty much to the day, we skied part way down the classic route, then skinned up to Helbronner, skied down spring snow about 11am on Toula to the Italian mid-station (it was ridiculously warm for the 1st of Feb), had lunch sunbathing on the terasse there, then back up to Helbronner and skied down close under the Dent du Geant. Not enough snow below Montenvers, so had to take the train down. Not a bad day.
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FAQ
. A great experience BTW, must go again some time
