 Poster: A snowHead
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considering buying, fall line higly recomended but prefer users opinion. Want one ski to do all with heavy bias to off-piste but realistic to realise powder and 3 to 4 weekly trips a year a lottery. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Buy Buy Buy 
The Mantras are awesome in all kinds of powder and very useable on piste as well! Just do it!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks Steilhang just what i needed to hear 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Noooooooo. Don't mention Mantras.
I've been trying not to think about buying a pair for months.
here's hoping for a real nasty base shot next week. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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base shot?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sorry Mosha Marc
just realised base shot i was thinking obscure drug refference, to much work not enough play. Telemark pyrennes has them on special offer
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markyb, SSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
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Mosha Marc, give in. Let your mind roam. You know it's gonna be good for you 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Must resist, must resist! 
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better the memory of what was than what if
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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markyb, How tall are you?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Dukes make no sense on Mantras, especially as you didn't mention touring, and they're not a "heavy offpiste use" ski or particularly suited to Dukes anyway...
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DaveC, Sorry but the Dukes make every sense on Mantras. That combination matches up one the most versatile skis on the market (with a bias towards off piste) and a binding that has very little weight difference to most decent alpine bindings of a similar strength* while including the option of increasing mountain access with the touring function.
This set up is awesome. Throw in a pair of climbing skins and you're off!
*300grams per pair heavier than Salomon S614
100 grams heavier than Marker 14 Free
100 grams LIGHTER than Look PX14
600 grams Lighter than Look PX18
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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i am 5ft 7.5inches doing a weeks course in Chamonix this March which includes 1/2 days learning use of skins. I am a realist i ski with my wife a kids twice a year in thowse weeks i get 1 day off-piste most of time spent charging around betweenthe park(kids) and wife at ski school so limited to a few hours a day. So need a ski that has a bit of everything., but cant help aspiring to an off-piste prefference.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If I understand you correctly...you do 2 days a season off piste and a relatively new to off piste.
I would suggest that you demo this ski before you buy....this is a really big ski, it will be great in deep powder but a lot of work in most other situations. One of the guides I skied with in VdI a few days ago had this ski but he skis off piste at least 4 hours every day all season long....he really liked the Mantra though. I would think that something in the 85-90mm waist would be better for your needs.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 20-01-08 17:51; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Obviously this is all a bit moot now the OP has mentioned he's actually going to use them for touring but...
I'm not arguing it'd work, but why pay $430 or whatever their euro RRP is for what's (imo) an allround ski, and it doesnt exactly sound like it's going to be used as a touring ski... If you want a heavily biased offpiste ski, put them on a Gotama or Katana, or Legend Pro or whatever and don't mess around. If you want a ski that can handle offpiste and will also be skiied everyday, you have absolutely no reason to Duke up.
What I'm really saying is, don't just buy what Fall Line tells you to buy. The duke is an awful binding to choose with no intention of touring (which I assumed from the earlier posts) - why have any stack height when you can have a s916 or p18?
SZK - the Duke was designed to be a bomber touring binding, not "to be used with the Mantra"  I'm not slating them at all, I love mine, and I'm really pleased with how solid they are downhill compared to Freerides etc, but I still feel like putting them on a Mantra is selling them short 
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Link doesn't work, but I'm sure you can take them off groomed runs alright. Pretty sure you can do that with 65mm waisted carvers too. I'd call a "heavy offpiste use" ski something with a >25m turn radius and >100mm waist. It's not like them being fat makes them much harder to ski - I ski Scott P4's inbounds daily unless it's boilerplate ice (then I stay in bed )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC, sorry pal, couldn't disagree more. It may be that for nose deep champagne you need >100mm waist in order to float, but in europe we don't get that very often. For European conditions the Mantra is perfect.Fact is that you hit all kinds of different snow off piste and the last thing you need around here is a monster fat that can't hold an edge on ice. For float I ski mine a bit longer (190) than I would a piste ski.
Who said fat skis are hard to ski
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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plenty of people with the duke/mantra set-up in engelberg this weekend
DaveC, you are aware that the Legend Pro is only 2mm wider under foot than the mantra
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I dunno, I guess I'm forgetting most people's opinions on width of skis... I was considering a 191 Mantra as my groomer day ski and to instruct on, so maybe my views are getting a little warped compared to the general train of thought. I like having a wider ski underfoot for variable conditions as well as powder. My edges work just fine on them though
Arno - 22m turn radius vs 29, way stiffer, different ski? I've seen lots of Duke/Hellbents, Duke/Gotamas/Katanas and Duke/superfat here, not seen them on Mantras yet here though.
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DaveC, you seem to be assuming that people only tour for deep powder. this may be the case in Fernie but here in Europe when you're faced with a 2000m vertical descent chances are you're going to start off with some powder, then maybe a bit of crust, then some spring snow then a bit of bush wacking at the end. so you want something that performs tolerably in all of these. I'd say a Mantra fits the bill quite well
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I think this topic needs to made a bit clearer....
General consensus so far;
Mantra = awesome all round ski if bias is towards off-piste. Good float in soft snow, solid ski for bashing through crud, awesome edge grip in hard/icy conditions.
Marker Duke = rigidity, stiffness and control of an alpine binding + ski touring accessibility. Weight penalty is MINIMAL when compared to the versatility of the binding.
Mantra + Duke = one of THE set-ups of the year?
Right, that should clear things up. Anyone who disagrees needs to go ski a mantra as thay obviously haven't yet
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So which of you two are K2 sponsored?
Fair enough, the Mantra is a nice ski. Like I said, I'm considering buying a pair. I've skied them in 184 and 191, in day-after-powder-day crud and day-after-that-coldsnap-high wind-weirdness. It just seems like going for the jack of all trades route on both ski and binding isn't the optimal solution - like, if you want to skin up infinite vert then get dynafits or naxos and AT boots or whatever, and if you want to tour a little then put dukes on something a bit burlier. Are Mantra's this years Scott Mission/Rossi B2/other snowhead ski flavour of the year or something?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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K2?
The bloke asked about Mantras which I guess is why people are concentrating on them here. Have you actually skied any of these set-ups or just read about them on TGR?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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DaveC, The Duke was developed by Volkl for and with Marker with the Garmont Shaman being the desired boot choice (kept Tecnica happy!). The Mantra was seen as the ideal platform to develop such a binding, all first pre-tests were on Mantra as it's a 96mm ski, perfect for the torque requirements of the average boot/binding/ski set up. You can stick a Duke on whatever you want; WC Slalom, Reverse Cambered 140mm waist, but when you step above that 'Holy' 111mm of width, be careful of the torque on those bindings and above all, those knees.
Are the Mantra this years Scott Mission, B2 etc? Nah, this years 'Punter' can be seen skiing the piste on anything Reverse cambered and above 111mm in the waist. pint envy? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for such a pasionate and helpfull debate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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soliciting information from any and all. the mantra is a great ski for all-mountain with a preference for powder. i was all set to buy it, but is there a better all-mountain ski for someone who does not get to the powder or off piste as much as he'd like, and that would be better for the bumps?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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neubauer, welcome
Don't know about stateside, but in the alpes the Mantra is a great ski. They have beefed it up this year...or widened it from 94 to 96mm. It still needs some respect but you should be able it handle it everywhere.
As reagrds the Duke .... if the Duke is as solid as an alpine binding but has a weight advantage, plus it has uphill flexibility, then it sounds like a good idea. You might not want to go uphill for very long on it but to get you away from the drones with a 30 min walk or so for little or no cost in weight or performance, then ok... I can see the point of that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Interesting that no-one really see the stack height of the Dukes to be a problem.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon,
Comes with the terrritory...most AT bindings have the same issue. But then some Alpine bindings have plates that do the same sort of thing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| JT wrote: |
spyderjon,
Comes with the terrritory...most AT bindings have the same issue. But then some Alpine bindings have plates that do the same sort of thing. |
Agreed, in fact the Dukes look lower than Fritschi's. It's just interesting that the Speedlock plates have gotten some flack re use on wide skis but they're no higher than Dukes.
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i have never skied on anything wider than karmas (87 i think) which seem to work just fine in euro powder and i am heavy and tall. If you are a holiday skier like markyb and get a few weeks a year mainly chasing after the wife and kids will a 90 or 100 mm waisted help you or hurt you.
i would think skiing on piste with a 100 + >25 rad ski would suck for anything other than huge long GS turns and the occasional forays into powder with a slightly narrower ski would be more than adequate.
But i havent skied the big boys so may be talking out my ...
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spyderjon, why? do you want to put it on a Vist plate? Seriously. I am joking.
DaveC, I like you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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parlor, .
BTW, what stack height have you got on your tele gear? I mounted up a load of Stockli GS race skis with Targa's for the Army Telemark Team a while back with 50-60mm riser plates.
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spyderjon, 40mm on both my Cobras and my BD 02s, and it looks like 40mm on my Bombers.
My cobras are on an old fashioned riser plate which is nice and cheap so I might stick some more on a pair of GS skis. I've seen a few Scands tearing up the hard pack on Fischer RC4s, sounds wild.
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FAQ
it's less of a concern (sixth set is Gotama/Duke FYI)
