 Poster: A snowHead
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Further, can you do anything even if you do hear them coming?
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| i would be worried about not being able to hear a skier or snowboarder coming behind me and blowing me out. |
this is a misplaced fear. Even for experienced skiers, if some out of control person suddenly swooshes down behind you, you hardly have a chance to look, judge their line, judge what evasive tactics they might be about to do, and adjust your own course. A wiser course of action is to try to stick to your own line, turning in a predictable sort of manner. |
My experience is actually different. I've had more than one time when I heard that BIG scraping noise approaching me from behind, a sign of someone trying to do a panic stop. I was able to turn AWAY from the direction of travel of that noise, and narrowly missed being hit.
What's your experience?
Are you simply "worried" about not being able to hear skiers/boarders from behind but were not sure it makes any difference? Or did you avoid at least one collision because you "heard it coming"?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I usually find a shout of 'look out - mad english woman' usually suffices 
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Ski so fast that there will never be anyone coming up behind you. Easy. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I listen to death metal on continuous loop through my very powerful headphones. I find that this combined with my consistent mach speed strafes of the slopes ensures that I am very rarely bothered by other piste users.
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In the unlikely event of hearing that scraping sound approaching, just point tips straight down the hill for a little while then vere off to the side |
That's what I do actually! 
That is, I do actually HEAR them coming.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Like joe1978 says, as a boarder you do have a degree of leeway in that it's easier to cast an eye behind you.
That said, I can't think of an occasion that I've had the ability and split second thinking to move out of the way of someone who's motoring - they're usually on you before you know it. Mind you, I've only had a few crashes and they were my fault. Lots of noise was made and seeing as they were typical novice crashes, there wasn't much speed and only my ego was bruised.
Mind you, I did take out a group of skiers standing around the ESF meeting point in Belle Plagne when a three-year-old on a sled totalled me. it was all "Awww, poor little child" for the kiddie and scowls of disgust that a boarder should darken these skiers' door!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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In my most dangerous moment a shout of 'look out mad english woman' shifted all people that I could have taken out - I was then just left to take out the kinder lift 
I must admit that I tend to rely on vision - I have a good look before I set off so that to begin with I've got a rough idea of where people are, then I guess I use as many senses as I can and duck and or stop if I can when I suddenly here a swoosh that sounds too close.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Megamum, if you're out of control and in danger of charging into other people do you think that falling over before you hit anyone is a better approach than shouting at them to get out of the way?
The worst collisions I see (fortunately rare) seem to be a combination of the uphill skier/boarder not leaving enough room and the downhill skier/boarder making a sudden and erratic move. It's a bad combination which can end in tears.
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rob@rar, Luckily I haven't been in that situation since I've taken up this skiing lark again over the last couple of years. Do you fall over before hit someone is an interesting notion. I guess it depends on time - shouting could easily be sufficient for people to take sufficient avoiding action, particularly if you are already trying to go one way and they manage to go the other. Could I fall on purpose given sufficient time is a good thought - I don't know if I could fall on purpose and if so how to manage the manouvre safely. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum, I'd rather take a tactical fall than plough into a group of kids standing in a ski school line. I think shouting at people to get them to move out of the way because you are in danger of losing control is (a) unlikely to allow people enough time to move, and (b) very poor manners! As the uphill skier it is your responsibility not to crash into people below you. Bellowing at them to move is not, IMO, an acceptable means of keeping out of their way.
If you do want to take a tactical fall (I took several today rather than crash into trees) fall onto your hip/side, you'll soon come to a stop.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, I think Megamum maybe moving slow enough for other people to move out of her way?
Once beyond snowplough, I think one is better to move across the hill or attempt to stop to avoid hitting anyone. Falling as an alternative way of stopping works well for snowplougher on blue/green, but less well at red or above.
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Poster: A snowHead
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abc, yes, falling is my last option not my first.
Regardless of how slow or fast you are skiing I don't think it is appropriate to yell at people to get out of the way. If someone yelled at me or any class I was with sharp words would be exchanged.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've been taken out by a boarder and by a skier twice, once from each. On both occasions there was no warning, no scraping, just my feet taken out from under me.
Both of them were relative beginners out of control. There was no warning and no noise. So whilst i'm sure on occasion hearing things helps, not being able to hear won't always prevent a crash.
I'd just still rather hear what's going on around me though and wouldn't want to ski with earphones in.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree that it is bad form to crash into people, but I don't think it is necessarily classes of skiers that are the ones at risk - they at least move in a reasonably predictable pattern once they move off.
As a learner what bothers me is having a line giving me plenty of space worked out to avoid someone who may be going slower than me (and occasionally this now starts to be the case ) and then having to quickly change my mind because some idiot is about to scythe past me taking up the very line I'd intended to use. It's a bit like those drivers on the motorway who don't watch all the traffic around them in all the lanes and don't move over when they can see you needing to overtake even though there is plenty of space on the outside lane for them to do so. As a beginner I can't yet turn instinctively, I need to plan the turn with all brain cogs engaged and think my way round it. When your intended line is suddenly vetoed my some burke who hasn't been looking and I'm forced to do something unplanned if it doesn't come off this can take you closer than intended to the very folk you had planned to avoid. You may not believe it, but I am paranoid about doing something wrong on the slopes and being shouted at and will wait literally an inordinate amount of time to get a clear bit of slope, and then do all I can to keep safe space around me as I go down. I also drill it into my kids heads that they are to note uphill skiers before they set off too.
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Checking uphill good plan, I still remember the THUD sound of a big Italian hitting me flat out in Sauze. Have to say mainly (all) my fault, was scooting down onto a flat section flat out, saw rest of group on my left in a queue, edges in hard, BANG. learnt some interesting new italian words too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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touch wood i have never hit anyone at any pace nor have i been hit.. (boarding) the only times i have hit any one is when going across the piste and meeting someone do the exact same thing in th eopposite direction, you usually get one of those no one knows which way to go situations and end up in some mid piste cuddle .. i did once have this situation with a mate of mine who was a bit out of control, seeing as i knew him i just shoulder charged him in the chest.. it was for his own benefit
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you see this is where my lack of confidence coms from i think, on my 2nd week skiing i was happily pottering down a green and i got totalled from behind by some spanish bloke, no warning shouts, no scraping sounds he just ploughed straight through me at full speed throwing me about 6ft in the air before landing very nastily on my ankle, luckily nothing broke or was damaged only my confidence. The guy didn't even say sorry he just got up and continued to ski dangerously totalling a few other people.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| charlichops wrote: |
| The guy didn't even say sorry he just got up and continued to ski dangerously totalling a few other people. |
I swear if I ever see someone doing this I'm going into a tuck and crashing full speed into him.
Actually, I did something like that once, long ago, in Romania...some idiots were sliding on plastic sacks on the ski run completely out of control, I tried to reason with them and they laughed me off. 200 yards later, one of them mows down a girl. I stopped, she was fortunately all right, so I went into full downhill mode (it was a red run, too, got up to some speed) and when I was about 5 yards behind the perpetrator I faked an out-of-control position and started shouting desperately AAAARGGGHH!....The guy turned his head around and literally blanched. I crashed with my ski edge into his back, just hard enough to hurt him and to control my turn to the left, and proceeded to fly down the run...good thing it was close to 4pm, I didn't risk hanging around as there were about 7 in that group.
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ouch a ski (which hopefully you sharpened beforehand) to the back would have hurt.
sounds like a dickhead. Most resorts dont allow sledges up the lift.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is it not a case of ski patrol just being out and about and doing there job? A half day confiscation of a lift pass would motivate people to ski a little better?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Actually, I did something like that once, long ago, in Romania...some idiots were sliding on plastic sacks on the ski run completely out of control, I tried to reason with them and they laughed me off. 200 yards later, one of them mows down a girl. I stopped, she was fortunately all right, so I went into full downhill mode (it was a red run, too, got up to some speed) and when I was about 5 yards behind the perpetrator I faked an out-of-control position and started shouting desperately AAAARGGGHH!....The guy turned his head around and literally blanched. I crashed with my ski edge into his back, just hard enough to hurt him and to control my turn to the left, and proceeded to fly down the run...good thing it was close to 4pm, I didn't risk hanging around as there were about 7 in that group.
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Probably not best practice. 
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I've come to grief several times skiing behind my youngest son. What is it about young kids and where they decide to turn? There is no rhyme or reason to it. Thankfully he's getting a bit better now, but he was a bl**dy liabilty 
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You know it makes sense.
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Megamum,
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I agree that it is bad form to crash into people
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oh good! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've seen lots of collisions on pistes. The only time ive ever collided, was in ski school this year in an intermediate class and this french bloke didnt stop in time and wiped me out while i was stationary. Face plant and skis all twisted, but not a big deal except my face was cold.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Tim Sawyer wrote: |
| Probably not best practice. |
Well, what would you have done? I tried to speak to them once and they acted like prats...had I tried again they could have had a go at me.
Put it this way - at least it was a skier in control who hit one of them - an out of control one would have been far worse.
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I got wiped out this year, didn't hear a thing until I hit the floor, the skiier that hit me just skiied off aswell, was well annoyed! I approached him at the lift where he apologised, but not after me pointing out his stupid behaviour. I wasnt bothered that he hit me, just that he didnt stop to see how I was!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For the record I haven't wiped anyone out......yet!!
Also, I haven't yet been wiped out - though the ski school last year had a pretty good go at me. I got a kid whizz right across the tails of my ski's they snatched my ski pole off my hand and completely bent it in the middle, but I did stay upright.
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I've been hit more often than I can remember. But it's one thing for a beginer on the nursery snowploughing at 2 mph running into me with eyes the size of dinner plates. It's something else when someone ran into me at 20mph in a full tuck.
I grant all beginer the understanding they're not all that good at stopping nor controling where they go. So as long as they go slowly enough that a collision wouldn't seriously hurt anyone, that's what I define "skiing in control". "in control" in the sense they don't HURT anyone.
Peeks who have good enough control and don't, or those who go faster than they have control over. That's what really bothers me.
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| abc wrote: |
| who have good enough control and don't, or those who go faster than they have control over. That's what really bothers me. |
I agree - that's what got my goat in my previous post - the guys involved appeared to be technically very competent indeed but no regard for safety of others.
Meanwhile, you have to see the funny side of a beginner who creates a domino effect in his beautifully lined up class - its one of the great sights in the mountains (and I can honestly say it was funny when I was in the class)
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| abc wrote: |
| Peeks who have good enough control and don't, or those who go faster than they have control over. That's what really bothers me. |
Every day on the slopes I see at least 10 or 20 people who are significantly worse skiers than I am going at significantly higher speeds in areas of the piste full of people, a lot of whom are beginners. What they do when someone swerves or falls in their path, I have no idea. I'm surprised there aren't more accidents.
Funnily, I almost never see such skiers going faster than me on an empty red or black run. And when they do, in many cases it's tumble time.
(I'm not an angel. Some years ago, I managed to run into someone, in a thick fog. Avoided the first two people I hadn't seen and ran straight into the third. But at least I did my best to cushion the impact for her - she didn't even fall- then I stopped, apologised, etc.)
As for hearing the skier or boarder behind...unless they shout or they are already in full braking mode, probably not. I try to look back every now and then, but if someone ran into me at full speed from behind, there'd be no time to react.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
As for hearing the skier or boarder behind...unless they shout or they are already in full braking mode, probably not.
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Yes, it's the "full breaking mode" that I tend to pay attention to.
By either turning away (when I can), or abort my turn and run stragith down the fallline, I think I may delayed the contact time by a fraction of a second, giving the other skier a chance to make further correction to his path (or just extra room to slow down)... It may not entirely avoid the collision, but might make a bad one less so?
Kind of what you would do if you actually SEE it?
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I have to smile at the idea of the 'domino effect' - I've not seen it yet, but can imagine it. However, analogous is the 'oh no if they've fallen I must fall too' effect in a class of 4 year olds. It made me smile last year to see the class of 3 x 4 year olds (that was all that survived the weeks lessons) being coaxed down their from the top of their first poma run. Essentially they were fine until the first genuinely slipped over then within moments each of the other 2 were on their backsides. The poor instructor spent all her time standing them back up again - I swear she could ski backwards up the hill to go and get them!!, only to have it repeat itself moments later. It took her about 20 minutes to get them all down - then bless her she took them all up another 3 times. It worked though - Peter was a whizz on the poma and down again by himself by the end of the afternoon. It was just hugely entertaining to watch the psychology - one down, all down!!
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FAQ
before skiing off.
