advice needed on first family holiday

A snowHead

although we can have odd days up at glenshee it's not really ideal for the kids learning as i think they need more of a go than a couple hours, plus the unreliablity of it makes booking lessons etc. pretty difficult (and i don't think i could teach them to ski myself) so we are thinking f having our first ski holiday together next season.

Just wondering if anyone had any advice on the best way to go really. Have seen all the specialist family companies and the thought of the kids being looked after for the full week etc. does sound very appealing i must say but the prices are bit Shocked

and we would probably have to take the kids out of school to be able to afford to go with Esprit (i do't find that a problem with the age they are at) I also like the look of snowbizz holidays.

I just don't kno wether it ius worth looking at the more mainstream TO's uch as crystal and first choice or wether we should do it ourselves by booking an apartment/flights, car etc. or even risk waiting for a last minute deal and sacfrificing the childcare.

What do you all do with your young uns (they will be 7 and 5) do you pay to have them taken off your hands for the whole holiday or just sort your own thing out, put them in ski school for the morning, then look after them yourselves during the afternoon.

Also any recomendations on resorts, we have been to andorra before and will never go back, and we have been to alped'huez which we liked. Quite fancy plan peisey with espirit too

thanks

A snowHead

Don't have little Nippers myself, but I believe Ski Beat come highly recommended too.....

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

we go to livigno and have done for the last 5 years mainly because of the kids. italians love kids and its cheap. we always have a diy holiday as its cheaper in half term. they were 12 and 5 when we first took them and they went into ski school for 2 and a half hours each morning whilst we skied to our hearts content we would then pick them up and go for lunch and then go and play or practise skiing together. this way they learnt whilst we skiied and we had family time together. now they are 17 and 10 they ski with us, however we have another little one now who is 2. she will go into kindergarten this year whilst we ski for a couple of hours and then its sledging in the afternoon with her. doing it this way gives us all chance to ski the way we want and spend a holiday together. personally i cant see the point of having a family holiday and then not having your kids with you, its also nice to watch their progression in skiing and be there to pick them up when they fall or see the delight on their faces when they reach the bottom of their first black run.
hannah

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If you're in France, ESF at least have children's lessons/child care for at least part of the day - leaving you free to ski. So DIY would be OK...

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

charlichops, There is a thread on here somewhere dealing with many of these issues. However, having been through this ourselves we ended up using Snowbizz and have been back with them quite a few times since. The deal with them is that it's very much a family holiday. If you're looking to dump the children and go off skiing on your own then it's maybe not the best company for that.

What happens on a typical day would be drop off children for ski school in the morning at the main hall (it's a very small resort so everwhere is easy walking distance). You can ski/ski school etc until pick up at around midday. After that it's ski with the children or possibly an (extra) option to drop them at the creche (we didn't do this so I'm not sure if there's an age limit on this service).

Evening meals would be self catering or catered in the Petit Cham restuarant. We've done both and it's fine either way depdending on whether you don't mind self catering. In the evening there's a kids club for a few hours which ours went to and enjoyed, but we didn't force them, in fact they asked to go.

The tuition for the children is great. The resort is very French, feels very safe, everyone we have recomended it to has gone back and many of the snowbizz guests are returning customers which says a lot in a competitive market. Puy is not huge but it's pretty and has a reasonable snow record.

Anyway, snowbizz offer the kind of with the family skiing which other operators seem NOT to offer. When we looked at other options a lot seemed to be based around getting the children off your hands so that you can go ski/eat. If you want that kind of holiday then there's possibly other TO more geared up to that.

Do a search for the other thread - there's a lot of info from others on there.

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We've never had to think about this before, but with a 1-year old who's just been on his first skiing holiday, we've started looking at options. This time around, he was in a kindergarten every second day, and the rest of the time we stayed with him or one of the non-skiing members of our party volunteered to look after him. We were away for 10 days in total, and skiied for 6 of them each.

For the older kids, I was amazed when I first heard about morning-only lessons, as we've done a lot of skiing in Austria, and the general approach there seems to be to do 2 hours in the morning and then 2 more in the afternoon. For kids over 5, this seems ideal - you drop them at the bottom of the lift at 0930, they have a lesson from 1000 until 1200 with a hot chocolate stop in the middle, then either you collect them and take them to lunch and to ski with you for a while, or the ski school feeds them and supervises them until 1330, when they all gather again for another 2 hours of lesson with another hot chocolate, and then you collect them again at 1530. If they and/or you are tired, you can take them straight down in the lift, but our friends' daughter was 8 when she started skiing with us, and as long as we kept her sugar levels up she could keep up with us until 1600 at least, and on some days we were on the last lift up and just about the last off the mountain. The best ski schools also have a base at the top of the lifts, so if the weather isn't great or your child tires quickly, they can go inside and play and/or watch videos, and can also warm up and get something to eat and drink.

See http://www.skischule-mayrhofen.at/en-index11.htm and http://www.skischule-finkenberg.at/welcome.htm for examples - we've used the Finkenberg school on several occasions, and would recommend it 100%.

As they progressed, we changed the routine - first lift up at 0830, an hour of group skiing, ski school for the kid, lunch together and an hour of skiing as a group, then ski school for the kid, then an hour of group skiing to round off the day. Three hours with everyone together each day on the slopes was a good compromise, and allowed for the maximum possible learning time for her, while we got up to 7 hours of skiing a day. Her father probably lost out on an hour or so each day to ensure he was there at the right times to drop off and pick up, but it worked out very well for him.

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After all it is free

We did the Austria full day thing and all though it worked, it was not greaT. If doing it again I would make say the following were a must:
Holiday at Easter (if you must do school holidays), or March onwards
Choose a resort that will be snowsure at that time of year
Choose a resort that has beginnere facilities and snow at resort level.
Don't waste you money on going to an expensive/expansive resort.
Choose a resort with highly recommended English speaking ski school, even better, with lessons conducted specifically in English.
If the kids are +5/6 yr old then put them in morning ski school and ski with them in the afternoon

The alternate is do a MArk Warner / Esprit type holiday, cough up the dosh, and let someone else handle the kids.

Frosty the Snowman, I'd actually recommend going at a time when there are more English people in the resort, since that makes it more likely that English-speaking classes full of English people will happen, rather than an Austrian instructor who speaks good English being given a class of 6 German speakers plus the one English speaker. The lessons are technically good, and the child understands, but they have no-one to talk to except the instructor. That makes half term and Easter the obvious choices, especially this year when Easter is at its earliest.

No matter what plans you make, there's always a chance that your child will hate it, as johnnyh eventually found out. If you don't listen to the child and check that they are happy, you'll not find out - give them an honest choice between ski school today and going swimming, or staying at home with a parent, and if they choose not to go to ski school, accept that and find out what the problem was.

The very young kids have a 2-hour session, but maybe only an hour of that is skiing, and even then they have magic carpets, skidoo trains and so on to make it as easy for them as possible. The rest of the time is break, free play, rest, or whatever. The instructors are very experienced, and are capable of realising when your child has had enough, and also when the whole class would benefit from some down time. The kids are there to have fun too - if they're not enjoying it, think again.

You can also book half-day tuition in Austria, but if the child is capable of handling more, they'll benefit from the extra time.

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charlichops, used Esprit for the last 3 years. They are not cheap but you do get what you pay for. We have 3 kids (took the youngest hwne he 3 3/4) and they have always loved it. We stayed Peisey in Les Arcs last week with them, best chalets yet. Chalets are a bit of a side issue as you are paying for superb childcare. Can fault the prices but can fault the kids care Laughing

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thanks everyone for your help

I have ordered some brochures and will have a look with hubby.

Thinking of either going middle January or early march (any time preferential with kids and for snow conditions. We have always been mid march before and have sometimes found the snow a little slushy due to the warmer sun, but wouldn't want to risk no snow at all by going too early.

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i dont think you have any worries this season with snow....there is lots everywhere!

While we had non-skiing children we always used skibeat and it always worked very well.

Last year our oldest aged 5 was ready to learn to ski so we went with Snowbizz to Puy St Vincent and we all had a fantastic time. Excellent small resort with all slopes leading to the flat accomodation/eating/ski school and nursery area. Snowbizz has their own english speaking ski school catering solely for their clients so within a few days youu and your children know everybody. Free family guiding in the afternoons looked a lot of fun.

the only downside is the ski area. I could have boarded it in half a morning so I learnt to ski instead and my wife and friends - all competent skiers had lessons as well. But then the reason you choose PSV is for the kids and they love it.

the evening kids club was a big hit with kids and parents and the sledging run with inflatable barriers was a big hit with kids and dads.

You know it makes sense.

charlichops, go with snowbizz. It is the ideal setup for family skiing as opposed to just childcare.

Compared to booking direct the ski school is quite expensive but you get a small class that ensures your children learn rather than just being looked after.

Finally unlike ashton parker I would choose PSV even without kids.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

charlichops, when we went with skibeat, they were offering free childcare on late availability deals along the lines of one free childcare place per four full-paying adults. And I had a late deal email from Esprit today. I can PM it to you if you're interested?

I must say the childcare we had with Ski Beat was very good, but my son was only 9 months old so was in the creche all day, rather than having lessons.

A snowHead

nessy, seconded ,maybe we should all be on Snowbizz commision,I wonder whether they are aware they have a little Snowbizz fan club here on snowheads.Just booked for next New year ,prices have gone up Sad

due to the threat of the poor euro exchange rate but IMHO they are still good value compared to most Family Specialists.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Looking at my own bookings I'd be surprised if you find the exact thing you are after in March - and you're very unlikely to get a significant discount. Amazingly booked up this year. Lots of deals about if you can drop everything and travel before half term though - and the snow is cracking at the moment. Have a look around, we have big discounts for 19th and 26th Jan (see link below) but so do the likes of Esprit. Shop around and (don't tell anyone I told you this) haggle with the big boys! They'll shift. wink

Obviously if it's quality you want there's only one way to go...

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just to be clear we won't be goig this season Crying or Very sad

as we have no money and we are visiting the inlaws in Cyprus in April. We are looking for 2009, so hopefully we will be able to get what we want. We also need to wait until hubby knows what he is doing with his job as at the moment he is not allowed holidays inbetween Feb and April, so if he is still in the same job (we find out friday if he has got a new one) we have to go in january.

I'm pretty sold on PSV with snowbizz, there looks to be lots of nice gentle blues and greens for me, enough advanced stuff to keep hubby occupied for a week (he's not as fit as he used to be) and the resort/ ski school/child care looks exactly what we want for the kids first skiing experience. I think knowing my kids they will be happier spending the afternoons with us and to be honest a mornings skiiing is usually enough for me so i would be happy to play with kids and potter on some of the baby slopes if hubby wants to go off on the ski guiding or whatever.

hedley how much have the prices gone up, i've not enquired as to next years prices yet but 2008 prices for middle of january or beginning of march were fine

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

charlichops, I don't think you'll regret it with Snowbizz. We're off with them this year in March (again). The resort isn't massive but there's plenty there to keep everyone occupied. It's also nice because the runs all end up back at the main centre which means there no real danger of anyone getting lost. I'm still not bored by the runs and as I've said before I've been there quite a few times, now.

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charlichops, you will be fine if you go out of the childrens hols, maybe the 2nd week of Jan as the Ist week after new year apparently is quite busy with people taking kids out of school.Prices have gone up about 8% but seems to be loaded on the new year Crying or Very sad

with excellent value for mid january.
Speak to wendy in the office and ask as many questions as you need to,she knows the new prices now.
They are very helpful.Also I would recomend the piste facing apts with 2 bedrooms as they are more spacious as you dont need to use a fold down bed in the living area ,you feel more part of the action when overlooking the main hub of the resort.It is not noisy at night by the way.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

hedley many thanks, probably looking at either 10th, 17th or 24th january if hubby doesn't get his new job.

do most people go with the catered option or do you fend for yourself. I have no idea on restaturant prices in ski resorts anymore so not sure wether the catered option is good value. TBH my kids would probably be happy with a bowl of cereal in the apartment, not the most filling but they wouldn't fill up on loads like we do even if it was presented to them

After all it is free

charlichops, I didn't think the catered option looked so attractive. In any case you could still eat in the Petit Chamois if you wanted. The restaurant prices are pretty reasonable compared to better known resorts in France.

The Mona Lisa appartments are quite comfortable. We get a T3 (2 beds) and squeeze our 3 kids into one bedroom by taking an air bed. When we booked we had a choice so I chose as low as possible on the piste side. Then the kids can play outside and we can still shout at them from the window.

View from our appartment in the Mona Lisa last Feb.

You can see how far it is to the chair lift Smile

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that looks fab

Is there more than one chairlift at that resort level? and how are they with kids on the lifts? I have enough problems getting on the chairlifts myself without having to try and drag the kids on them.

My main worry is the type of lifts, my hubby hates drag lifts with a passion so he needs a good amount of runs available from the chairs.

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charlichops, the only significant drag lift only slopes have been replaced by a fixed grip 4 main chair for this season Smile

There are two 4 main chairs running out of the village. They are both detachable so relatively easy for kids to get on and off. BUT I have to say that the lift attendants do not look after kids so well as in my local Swiss resorts but that just means you have to pay a bit more attention yourself to the 5 year old. As a 7 year old last year, my oldest son was often getting on the chair in front of us with strangers without problems.

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nessy, many thanks again, I'm sorry i don't uderstand what you mean by detachable chair lifts

my experience with kids and chairlifts has pnly been at andorra where they generally stopped the lift to get the kids on if they were really little and looked like they would just get knocked under it, however when my husband slipped and got knocked under the chairlift into a very muddy puddle they just dragged him back on and shoved him on the next one...lol Laughing

charlichops, A detachable chairlift is one that slows down for loading and unloading.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

charlichops, having tried both self catered and catered with snowbizz I think it is better value to do your own thing for breakfast and eat out at lunch and in the evenings.
The petit chamois restaurant is the snowbizz favourite and I reckon we saved £300 this year by doing it ourselves as opposed to taking the HB package.
PSV is very reasonable price wise compared to many big resorts, 30euros for lunch and 60/70euros for the evenings inc house wine,for a family of 4.( my kids being 11 and 9).

A snowHead

I may well get slated for this, but here goes. Try Pamporova (Bulgaria) It is only a very small resort, but that is reflected in the price. It has enough for a first holiday with young children. Balkan holidays did an all inclusive package for about £130 (ski hire, lift pass & all day ski school).

This is where I went on first family holiday about 5 years ago and the instruction was fantastic, compare this to anywhere in Western Europe and you would be paying 3 times this for a similar package.

OK it does not have the terrain of an Alpine resort, but you would never ski 300 km of piste on a 1st week holiday, but for a 1st holiday with small kids it is more than adequate, but you would never go back after you had visited any of the major resorts.

Downside most hotels are in town and require shuttle bus to get to the slopes, but when I was there they were building some fantastic looking apartments right on a green slope, I would definitely go for these if you can find them.

Waiting with baited breath for replies Razz

A snowHead

charlichops, We are taking our 5 and 8 year olds to Madesimo in Italy as, recommended by northhantsred, this March. We chose there because it was the cheapest high altitude place we could find near to the lifts and nursey slopes with a pool to keep the little one amused in the afternoon. We like Italy 'cos they are generally very good with kids and the kids can always find something they like to eat. Downside is the resort is tiny but that's not a problem for me, I don't get bored easily! I'll let you know what it is like for kids. Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Just a point re Pamps, you would be advised to book late, there will always be availability out of term time. To ensure there is snow there rolling eyes

. No worries this year, check it out for yourself http://www.bulgariaski.com/pamporovo/index.shtml

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charlichops, we've done SC and the catered option. To be honest the catered was good but, because our boys went to the kids club we had to rush their meal so they could get there on time. So while it was nice not to worry about cooking in the apt it certainly was a bit of a luxuary to use the catered option. You can always book the Chamois anyway if you want to have your evening meal there. Otherwise there's still a fair choice of other places to eat in.

Lifts are two chairs (2 person and 4 person) at resort level and (from memory) another two chairs a little further down which can be skied down to from the resort. I have always found the attendants to be very aware of the children at Puy. It is very much a family resort in every sense. There are some drags higher up but I believe the worst (which wasn't bad) has been replaced.

It was busy in half term last year - and that would be my only criticism of the place.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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nessy, we went half term last year (l2nd week uk half term) as it was a last minute hol. Never been that time before. It was certainly busy - and Puy did have good conditions - but my only fear is that with new accommodation been built slightly up the mountain that the resort was in some way out growing its own capacity. I think, also, since it was the French hols as well as poor conditions in most other places maybe Puy was at it's max. Anyway, this year we're off in March so hopefully it will be a little quieter. My problem was not so much with lift queueing but with piste queueing. There were times when it felt like I was skiing down Oxford street in London.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

just waiting for snowbizz to get back to me with some prices for next year. I'm also considering belle plagne with espirit but i don't think the kids would take too kindly to being dumped in childcare all day, maybe in another couple of years. Also i think self catering might be a better option for my fussy lot, at least we can get them what they want to eat rather than having to hope the menu for the day is something they like

After all it is free

off to PSV with snowbizz on 30th March.
Definitely self-cater - the Snowbizz restaurant is OK but not as good as some of the others.
In addition the little supermarket is well stocked and for our kids on a couple of nights they needed to eat and go to bed early because they were getting tired.
The place up the road from the Mona Lisa apartments does excellent pizzas to take away. Clearly a job for Dads to go and get the pizza (and drink a few pints while waiting).

charlichops, How would you get to the airport ?as Snowbizz only do Manchester and London flights AFAIAA.

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hedley, we would just drive to manchester, it's not an issue for us as we've had to do it many times before, we usually drive to France (paris area) every year from scotland and we just have an overnighter at my parents who live in leeds, . I have asked for quotes from manchester and we would just drive down and stay overnight at one of the airport hotels, makes for a nice relaxing start to the holiday.

very impressed with the quotes they have given us, nice to know we can book the main part now and not have to worry what lessons and childcare we want just yet.

Help!!

advice needed on first family holiday

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