 Poster: A snowHead
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just bought a demon edging tool to take on ski trips (some are long...).
skiing metron B5s - should i use 89 or 88 degrees & what type of surface & skiing does measurement each suit?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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88 all snow all skiing all Atomic carvers.
(Assuming, of course, that the 88 refers to the enclosed angle and that the base bevel is 1 degree and the side bevel 87 degrees from the base plastic).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| comprex wrote: |
| 88 all snow all skiing all Atomic carvers. (Assuming, of course, that the 88 refers to the enclosed angle and that the base bevel is 1 degree and the side bevel 87 degrees from the base plastic). |
comprex, that's a bit of a confusing reply as the enclosed angle is never referred to when specifying angles as one has to know the existing base edge angle to be able to specify the side angle.
riverwhy, All Atomic's are 1,3 from the factory including their powder skis, ie 1 degree base & 3 degree side edge angle. 3 degrees is also the same as 87. Side edge guides either measure the angle from the vertical (3 degrees) or horizontal (87 degrees). So don't use either the 89 or 88 setting & select the 87. If your tool doesn't have an 87 degree setting then send it back & get one that does. Have you got an alu-oxide stone for removing case hardened dings before using your tool & a gummi stone for removing the hanging burr afterwards?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon, yes, I freely admit it is confusing. Nonetheless, I have seen the enclosed angle referred to both on this website and elsewhere.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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[quote="riverwhy"]just bought a demon edging tool to take on ski trips (some are long...).
skiing metron B5s - should i use 89 or 88 degrees & what type of surface & skiing does measurement each suit?[/quote
Atomic factory angles are 3 degrees side, 1 degree base.
Trust Spyderjohn 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Had me worried there for a minute comprex when you said go for 88 - I've got a pair of M5B11s and a pair of Nomad Crimsons and recently bought an 87 from Spyderjon.
spyderjon, when just doing edge-touch ups I thought it was diamond file then alu-oxide stone then gummi. Have I got the first two the wrong way round in the order of things?
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| PhilG wrote: |
| spyderjon, when just doing edge-touch ups I thought it was diamond file then alu-oxide stone then gummi. Have I got the first two the wrong way round in the order of things? |
Correct order is: alu-ox to remove case hardened burrs/dings etc - then diamond file(s) suitably lubricated - then gummi to remove the hanging burr on the base edge caused by the sharpening. If the edges are so dull to require sharpening with a metal file then this is done before using the diamond file(s).
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spyderjon, gotcha, thanks for the clear-up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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thanks for the replies guys.
spyderjohn - yes i do have the tools you mention, but I wanted something to keep in my pocket when skiing. Re the Demon edging tool, it's 88/90. I'm told you can't get a pocket tool that's 87.. what difference am i going to feel between 87 & 88 ? I presume 87 is for optimum performance.. what am i not going to be able to do at 88 ?
I bought the file guide when i had my apache crossfires & i think that is 88 too...
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| riverwhy wrote: |
| ......spyderjohn - yes i do have the tools you mention, but I wanted something to keep in my pocket when skiing. Re the Demon edging tool, it's 88/90. I'm told you can't get a pocket tool that's 87...... |
You can from me - either an Edge Trick tool or a Moonflex Minituner. Apart from the angle issue (there isn't a ski on the market shipped with a 90 angle), the problem with the Demon is that it contain a metal file which is too aggressive for regular use. A metal file should only be used occasionally & instead regularly use a diamond stone/file to keep the edge sharp. A metal file is also the wrong tool to have in your pocket/backpack, an alu-oxide stone being waaay better with maybe a diamond as well.
| riverwhy wrote: |
| .....what difference am i going to feel between 87 & 88 ? I presume 87 is for optimum performance.. what am i not going to be able to do at 88? |
Most of the time you won't notice the difference although you'll be unnesesarily removing edge material to reduce the edge to 88. However you've got Metron B5's that are a longitundinally & torsionallty stiff short radius high performance carver with a factory 87 edge that gives superb edge hold so it seems strange to me that it isn't retained, afterall you never know when you need good edges until you need 'em.
Return the Demon tool & do the job properly 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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you're right about the aggressive edge Jon.. it's like a b*stard file! I was a bit surprised by that, but anyway, haven't yet used it.
you're also right about edge grip - i suspect my edges are more 88 than 87 right now & they skidded a bit on the ice in kitzbuhel a week or so ago.
so - how do i get the right stuff from you?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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riverwhy, have a peruse of the online store on my website & if you have any queries give me a call (see the 'contact' section for my numbers.
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this is probably a stoopid question but is there an easy place to find out what the angles are on skis straight from the factory?
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You know it makes sense.
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vivski, Yes, find the factory's website and send 'em an email - I got a response back from Elan in about 10 minutes today.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, so what is your opinion of the just do all skis 0.5-1 base and 3 side theory?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nessy wrote: |
| spyderjon, so what is your opinion of the just do all skis 0.5-1 base and 3 side theory? |
I was taught/advised by Mike DeSantis who now is co-owner of Precision Tuning Center in Framingham, MA, USA. This is Mike's CV:
Graduate Stratton Mountain Ski Academy
University of Vermont Ski Team
9 years Alpine Coach at Stratton Mt. School
7 years World Cup Technician/Race Director for Volkl
4 years Product Development Manger for Volkl
Member Volkl International Test Team
Mike recommends a true* 1 base and a 3 degree side & so I've always tuned my skis to 1,3 irrespective of function & as I've been skiing Atomic's until recently this meant I didn't have to alter my angles. So if it's good enough for Mike it's good enough for me.
Some question the durability of a 3 degree side edge but Mike says a 2 & 3 side bevel stay equally sharp for the same amount of time & I've not found any difference either. Interestingly Volkl ship all their skis with a 2 degree side edge which Mike said is because most shops have their machines set to 2 so there's less chance of them altering the feel for the user. So basically Volk's edge angle has been chosen for marketing reasons & not performance.
*It's important to remember that it's actually the base edge angle that has a greater effect on how a ski actually skis - with most people over bevelling the base edge meaning the ski has to be tipped a long way over to get the edge to engage. I often see skis with what their owvers tell me is a 1 degree base edge but is actually 1.5-2 degrees.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FAQ
must have missed that on my trips round the website!! 