 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Being slightly cash strapped, with 2 kids in tow, & struggling to find the money to pay for a weeks skiing holiday in teh school holidays I am contemplating taking the kids outof school for a week ( as price loads cheaper out of school hols).
Howevre, the education authorities in our area have adopted a 'nazi' approach to taking kids from school during term time & basically its a no no except for very , very , very , very good reason.
Forgeting all the reasons why 'we' shouldn't take our 2 kids from school for a week ( their education will be compromised etc etc etc...), can any one provide me with any decent excuses I can 'present' to my kids school as to why they should be allowed to take a week out of normal term time..( I have no problems with white/grey lie's)
Thanks in advance
Mitch
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Parents unable to get time off during school holidays?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Avoid doing it in yr 11
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does the school offer a ski trip?
You might find that the headmaster/mistress is more lenient if he/she is a skier themselves.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How old are the kids?
It make a difference in my experience to the attitude of the school regarding the real reason you are taking them out of school.
I have taken mine out a couple of times through their school life and if you are prepared to take a bit of stick and don't make a habit of it , then a letter slapping your wrist and asking you not to do it is all I have had.
However I would not do it during crucial years e.g GCSE or SATS......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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My suggestion:
Declare it an educational trip. Send them a sylabus describing what your kids will study over the week - not just through ski-school but geographical, environmental, cultural, language, maths for currency conversion etc.
Tell them that if they think they can come close to teaching your kids as much in a week you may consider leaving them at home 
Seriously though, while a straight forward 'holiday' may not neccesarily have a massive educational component, with just a little effort in that direction, kids can learn far more in a week away. Assert that as a focus and their argumant against is severely weakened.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 3-01-08 21:39; edited 1 time in total
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I sympathize - our kids are now grownup, but we always took them out of school when we went skiing, as we could only afford darkest January prices. My dad took me out of school too, in June, always, because he couldn't stand going on holiday with everybody else (camping in Scotland). We all passed our exams.
I would not make up any lies, white or otherwise. If you lie, you are in the wrong, and on the defensive. I would say that you want to go for a ski holiday because it would be a great family activity, a physically demanding activity in glorious surroundings etc, and your family budget just will not stretch to the ludicrous half term prices. You would therefore be grateful if the children's absence for the week be authorised. They will do any assignments, or catch up with work, and you would be grateful for information on how you can ensure they do not lose out. I would suggest that you point out the children's excellent attendance record, and ask that, if permission is refused, they explain why. Be totally polite and truthful.
As I understand it, if you don't get permission, your children will be deemed to have had an "unauthorised absence" from school. Prima facie reason to prosecute. However, if your children have an otherwise excellent attendance record, and are not causing problems, or behind with their work, or giving any other cause for concern, the chances of being prosecuted are very slight, and the chances of being successfully prosecuted even slighter.
However, this is no doubt very irresponsible, anarchic, generally reprehensible advice from a parent who doesn't give a monkey's whatsit about their kids education.
All my kids got first class degrees, but I dare say that is not entirely down to their having been taken regularly out of school for fun family activities....They're all rather good skiers, too.
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We took ours out a number of times in their primary school years as it was the only way we could afford to take them somewhere other than my parents' place and the head's attitude was that they always came back having learned a lot about where they'd been, so he was fine with it. We insisted (so cruel!) that they kept a holiday diary & had to complete a page a day, sticking in a postcard, a ticket from somewhere, write something etc.
At secondary school it is much harder really, as they do find it tougher to catch up. However I think it depends on the individual kids - some are committed enough to do the catching up and suffer no long-term detriment and if that;s the case I'd just go! As rob@rar says the top excuse is to say that parental hols are fixed, and hope you don't have to prove it!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does "It would cost ~£1000 more to do it at half term" count as a good reason?
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I should perhaps have noted that the schools I took my kids out of (out of which I took my kids....) were state primaries in England and Scotland, a state comprehensive in Kilmarnock (Kilmarnock Academy) and a state comprehensive in Chichester - the Girls High. I don't know whether it's easier or harder in private schools but I'd object even more to being told what was good for my kids if I was paying through the nose....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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As a teacher i agree with Butterfly that the children can learn so much from a week abroad that they would never be able to learn in school and would not have the chance if parents had to pay school holiday prices! depending on their age getting them to do something like a diary is a great idea - i teach 4 and 5 year olds and the children love coming back and sharing the diary/photos with the rest of the class - then the whole class get to learn something too! My partner is always moaning we have to pay school holiday prices because of my job!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the replys all, my 2 boys are 12 & 8 ; 2nd year secondary ( selective school but not private) & 4th year primary. The secondary school will be okay ( i,m pretty sure) but we have a rather 'vigourous' & 'keen' relaively new headteacher in the yougest's primary ( he has rejected other parents requests for time off for various reasons) so suspect a small untruth probably the way to go !
Mitch
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Similar vein to admin, with the emphasis on the connection between a skiing trip and the 5 outcomes for children in the Childrens' Act. (Staying safe, being healthy, enjoying and acheiving, making a positive contribution and future economic well being ) I have a very understanding head teacher who has not only given her blessing for me to take my son out of school for a week each year to ski since he started primary school. He's now in year 5 and will be attending the MSB in march.............An event which will no doubt prove HIGHLY educational for him, possibly in more ways that we've bargained for!!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Mitchell, apparently norovirus is quite nasty ...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Our school authority allows up to 10 days (with permission) to be taken without too much grief. You could check what your local school authority allows.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'd be very suprised if they can actually stop you taking your children out for a week. As others have said, it's most likely more educational than being in school.
We are taking ours out in March both Primary age. Headteacher pretty much allows up to 10 days permitted/authorized absence.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you children have very good attendance then it should be no problem, the expected attendance is 92% so as along as it a week even if they are marked as unauthorised you should be fine. In the end the school looks bad for having a high number of unauthorised absences. The school maybe hot on it if they are classed as a persistent absence school. I know at my school they do not authorise any absence for family holiday, but the don't class it as unauthorised, it goes down as family holiday not agreed, which is probably a way of fixing figures.
Or the white lie
You could always try and claim it as a sporting fixture, especially if children in ski school, as the week often ends in a race with certificate , so you have evidence.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If your 8 year olds attendance record is good I would be inclined more towards telling the truth. The authorised/unauthorised absence rates are more about school performance indicators than cause for action against parents. (extreme examples of poor attendance aside) If you stick to your guns, it is likely that the head will come to see it your way rather than mark him down as an unauthorised absence.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This is all about the school's targets. Neither of your children will miss anything of very great significance that they cannot make up. The school will not want to record your children's absence as unauthorised if they can avoid it. Just say that no other time is available for this holiday.
Most people would be very surprised at the level of accountability in schools for just about every aspect of the school's life. Parents and children themselves are responsible for nothing. The school will be more concerned about the unauthorised absence than you will for this reason. If it comes to the crunch just say "I am authorising it. Any questions?"
One of my (very able) students has just missed a month of GCSE visiting relatives in warm parts of the world. Nothing we can do about it. She is clever enough to catch up in no time. It is only a problem in the KPIs.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chris Bish wrote: |
This is all about the school's targets.
....
It is only a problem in the KPIs.
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Hmmm. Now if only you knew someone who had access to the League table calculation data and software......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A previous boss was quite happy to write letters stating that work commitments would restrict when you were able to take leave - mind you he was a skier with school age kids. This year the school (or Education Authority) made it quite clear that any request would be denied and our daughter ( would be marked as absent - unauthorised.
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Mitchell, We take a 9 year old, 7 1/2 year old and 6 year old out next week with the schools blessing. By law you are allowed 2 weeks absence from school. Be honest tell the Head. He/she won't complain. If they do tell them to go f*ck themselves and ring social services see what they say. Its stupid to worry nothing can happen. Kids will learn more in 1 week in a ski resort than they will learn in a month of school.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| By law you are allowed 2 weeks absence from school. |
Is that really true? I was under the impression that the head could allow upto 10 days, but that doesn't mean that you are allowed it as a right.
Have you thought about just phoning in sick for that week? A friend of mine who is a teacher was telling me about a kid in her class who was refused permission by the head. The kid told his mates that he was going anyway, so the education officer turned up at the house the day that they were due to go.....caught them with suitcases packed, and they were fined.
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Mitchell, I spent many a week during school in sunnier and snower climates. I left last year with good results, an unconditional for uni, and a gap year! See it's not all bad, I had a week in Banff 3 weeks before my Higher/Advanced Higher (A level) exams) and it just motivated me more to study. I averaged about 14 absences a year through high school and did me no harm-even odd days here and there when it snowed in Scotland. An excuse accepted when the school wrote a letter of complaint to my parents for taking me out for 2 weeks one summer was that my mum had to go on business and had no option but to take me as my father had to work full time-a blunt response to any letter recieved usually does the trick!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| By law you are allowed 2 weeks absence from school. |
Is that really true? I was under the impression that the head could allow upto 10 days, but that doesn't mean that you are allowed it as a right.
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Yes, the relevant legislation enables the Headteacher to grant up to 10 days authorised absence during the school year. It does not entitle the parent.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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personally, whilst I would - and did - take kids out of school on a straightforward basis, there is no way I would involve a child in living out a parental lie. Noro virus indeed - so the little person is not to be allowed to go back to school, bubbling over with excitement about his great skiing exploits? The main educational value of any holiday which involved deception would be - if you can't get what you want, cheat.
Just tell them you can't afford to go at half term, and you don't want your child to miss out on such a valuable experience. You're the parent. No need for bombast, just firmness.
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Slightly off the wall idea. Skiing in half term is at at busiest period. Thank can can constitute an unreasonable risk to safety. Say you've done a risk analysis that suggests it's far better to take the kids out in the low season when they will be safer. All the public bodies are big into risk assessments these days. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mitchell wrote: |
Hi All,
Being slightly cash strapped, with 2 kids in tow, & struggling to find the money to pay for a weeks skiing holiday in teh school holidays I am contemplating taking the kids outof school for a week ( as price loads cheaper out of school hols).
Howevre, the education authorities in our area have adopted a 'nazi' approach to taking kids from school during term time & basically its a no no except for very , very , very , very good reason.
Forgeting all the reasons why 'we' shouldn't take our 2 kids from school for a week ( their education will be compromised etc etc etc...), can any one provide me with any decent excuses I can 'present' to my kids school as to why they should be allowed to take a week out of normal term time..( I have no problems with white/grey lie's)
Thanks in advance
Mitch |
Surely the solution is to plan your holiday better and cheaper?
Don't fly, drive. Don't hotel, self cater - etc etc etc..
Accomodation, basically the only variable that changes, is a small part of the overall cost anyway. I can take my wife and 3 kids away for a couple of grand all in - and that's half term in Feb. No problems. If I went in January, I might save £200.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| By law you are allowed 2 weeks absence from school. |
Is that really true? I was under the impression that the head could allow upto 10 days, but that doesn't mean that you are allowed it as a right.
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Yes, the relevant legislation enables the Headteacher to grant up to 10 days authorised absence during the school year. It does not entitle the parent. |
Not what my teacher friends say. Its all to do with allowance for unauthorised absence. Could be different in Wales?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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thefatcontroller, I reckon rob has it right, have a look here...
http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/management/atoz/a/attendanceandabsence/
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Family holidays
Under education law parents may request absence for pupils from school due to a family holiday. It is for schools to determine whether or not they agree to a family holiday during term time. Schools may authorise absence for this purpose for up to 10 school days in any school year. In exceptional cases schools may agree to a lengthier period.
In considering any request for holiday absence, schools should look at individual circumstances and take account of:
the age of the pupil
the time of year proposed for the trip
its nature and parents' wishes
the overall attendance pattern of the pupil
the pupil's stage of education and progress.
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By law, parents can request absence for a family holiday, but it is down to the school to authorise the absence.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mitchell, We have taken our two boys out of school for a week each winter for the past three years, all for skiing trips. We do have to ask permission, but a write a simple non-grovelling letter to the head teacher, pointing out that whilst we recognise time away from school is not ideal, we do believe they gain much from the week and - crucially - that they have excellent attendance the rest of the year. They are never off ill, never late, dentists etc are planned for outside school hours. We have never been refused and both schools concerned are pretty strict about the matter. We do also offer to take a bit of project-style school work with us, but that's never been necessary As others have said, you'll have a problem if it's a SATS or other exam year, but if your children have generally good attendance and punctuality I can't accept that one week will seriously damage them. The quote above from the Teachernet site, would seem to be the model adopted by both our schools. Good luck
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I wouldn't actually ask permission - just write and state that due to work committments you will be taking him/her out of school for a family holiday. They then know that thier only choice is to approve, or maek as unauthorised, which looks bad for the school. The trouble with asking nicely is that they think they can say no and you won't go!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| Not what my teacher friends say. Its all to do with allowance for unauthorised absence. Could be different in Wales? |
Your teacher friends are wrong, although the relevant legislation (links to it here) is often misunderstood to assume it is a right of the parents to have 10 days per year for family holidays. I don't think the WAG has (yet?) passed any primary legislation that would replace these Acts and Statutory Instruments.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If a parent asked for permission to take a child out of school and was refused by the head, but then decided to take them out anyway. What are the potential repercussions? If this was the only week's absence in a school year, could they be fined or would it just go down as unauthorised absence (which to my mind would count against the school rather than the individual child anyway).
In my situation above, we were told that Zit 2's absence for an afternoon would be marked as "unauthorised", which we didn't particularly care about, but when her final attendance report came out, we saw it had been subsequently approved.
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thefatcontroller, I don't think the occasional week makes a big difference (although as a school governor I see it from the other side, where teachers do their best to cope with a fairly steady stream of kids taking time out during term time for family holidays). I think education works best when there is a supportive partnership between the school and the parents, so common courtesy (as well as legislation) would seem to indicate that permission should be requested for authorised absence during term time. Where agreement can not be found the parents should decide what is for the best, having listened to the school's reasons for declining that permission.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
| ... could they be fined |
Section 444(1) of the Education Act 1996 provides that a parent commits an offence if his or her child, being of compulsory school age, fails to attend regularly the school at which he or she is a registered pupil. Section 444A allows for a penalty notice to be issued to parents who commit such an offence. The penalty is £50 if paid within 28 days or £100 if paid within 42 days. Failure to pay may result in prosecution where on conviction you would be liable to a fine of up to £1000.
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rob@rar, 'fails to attend regularly' = cop out for a ski holiday. I think the fines and convictions are in extreme cases. If a child attended 3 days a week, this is regular perhaps?
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FAQ
Not having a go at you but so what 
) 
Of course, it might be that you have to keep the holiday quiet from your youngest too, to stop them letting the cat out of the bag...
