 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Would need to see pics of wife & daughters before I could accurately respond 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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..and is there a "Try before you Buy" promotion?
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kewhoward,
You are likely to have more time and money to go skiing if you set up a sucessful business in the UK. Good business is normally kept by the locals, some foreigners survive but the "get rich and ski all day while living in the alps" is something a lot have wished for but nobody I know or heard about has ever achieved.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, I know someone who's done that. Agreed it's not easy to pull off though.
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kewhoward, the big issue for most alpine businesses is seasonality. You're pretty much dependent on 25-30% of the year to make your money. If it's a poor winter you can very quickly become unstuck and I reckon those who see the existance as a dream often fail.
Perhaps a short wife / daughters video on youtube would entertain us anyway.
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Why would you consider turning a hobby into a job "living the dream"?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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kewhoward,
How many of us wage slaves are thinking the same, today of all days!
My plan is long term, early retirement in about 15 years when kids have (hopefully) left home, eke out retirement in the alps for the winter with a small business that wont make me rich but will subsidise retirement income...thats the long term plan anyway.
Any snowheads semi retired out to the alps?
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Besides the obvious ones of being a multi-millionaire or a ski instructor, by far the best option is to have a wellpaid dayjob in a major city near a big mountain range.
Then one can ski almost every weekend for 4 - 6 months.
Even yearround if it is near a skiable glacier, such as Hintertux.
Top places include Zurich, Geneva, Munich, Lyon, Nice, Milan, Vienna, Venice, Tokyo, Vancouver, Denver and Boston.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| DB, I know someone who's done that. Agreed it's not easy to pull off though. |
Was it in the ski industry and / or could he/she speak the local language?
If anybody is thinking of moving to the Alps long term then it's never too early to start learning the local lingo - this may open up more job opportunities in the short to medium term too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Martski - that's certainly one of the lines of thought - but how big would the pension pot need to be? What about the owner occupier chalet businesses - don't market forces mean that there is a relationship between rental income, property value and staff costs that makes sense - with financing provided by a comination of investment and borrowing - I'm not asking anyone to share their tax returns but I'll bet lots of snowheads would be interested in what it might look like...Or maybe it doesn't make sense and you've just got to subsidise it from somewhere else?
Certainly the seasonal nature is critical as Bode Swiller says - but a return to the UK to earn in the other 8 months is a possibility.
I'd just be interested in people's views and experiences
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Yep, Vancouver has got to be top of that list whitegold, as you can ski every night should you want to at the local mountains.
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You know it makes sense.
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dont forget to factor in the 'grass is always greener'.. or 'snow is always whiter'.. ratio.. jan2 is a great day to be thinking about a season in the mountains or even a life.. but its not all fun , there are loads of things you would miss in blighty and once you go getting back in the same standard of lifestyle is hard... try taking three weeks off and going, see if you still like it by day 19
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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norris, even Zurich has some night skiing within reach (conditions dependent) but if you can go to the mountains any weekend over 5 months + a days off or afternoon/morning on flexitime when the conditions are good why bother. Add to that what is considered to be some of the best quality of life around (admittedly Vancouver is often number 1).
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think Whitegold is probably right. You would probably have a higher income, and as much time on the slopes, as you would in an Alpine business. In an EU country there are no restrictions against Brits, as far as I know (I hope you have always strongly supported the EU, otherwise your question is hypocritical!!) though there are non-formal restrictive practices, not just against Brits. In some parts of France, Frenchmen from other regions have a bit of a hard time setting up a business and some smaller Alpine resorts are dominated by a few families.
It can be done, obviously, but it's hard if you have a living to earn. Learning the language would certainly be a very good start. If the idea of that bores you, you are probably not cut out for it!
I don't agree with CANV CANVINGTON that the novelty would soon wear off. We are about to start our 6th season, and are as excited as ever. But - the big but - I am retired, so don't have to earn a living any more. We finance our apartment, essentially, with the rent from having taken in a lodger. Once there, living costs no more than here.
Why not take six months leave without pay, rent out your house and give it a go?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
I don't agree with CANV CANVINGTON that the novelty would soon wear off. We are about to start our 6th season, and are as excited as ever. But - the big but - I am retired, so don't have to earn a living any more. We finance our apartment, essentially, with the rent from having taken in a lodger. Once there, living costs no more than here.
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Is your lodger in the French apartment or in the UK?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cool thread. This is something that i've done a lot of work on as after years doings seasons my wife and I ARE going to set up business in the French Alps within the next 4 years. We were all set to do this 3 years ago but kids came along and we delayed it. We have both worked in the Industry for many years and also the property industry.
kewhoward, to answer your question I think the minimum you would need to setup is £250,000 in your hand available. That being the absolute minimum on my business model. That is based on buying a property to sleep 12 max and have a seperate annex for us to live (2 adults plus 2 kids).
I'd be relying on very good occupancy to make it work on that level of equity. £400,000 and its much easier. £500,000 and the pressure would be much less and the summer would not have to be a major source of income.
Biggest problem I found in securing the ok from RBS for the business loan is that you will be giving up work to do this and therefore the business plan has to be very solid and to get the mortgage you dont have a job as such other than your new business that hasn't made any money yet ! We are looking at buying the Chalet within the next year and then renting it out until we are in a position to move out properly and use both our current incomes to ensure the mortgage is paid !
Alex
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| Quote: |
| Why not take six months leave without pay, rent out your house and give it a go? |
This was going to be our Plan A for next season to see how we liked it and consider our options from there. But fate has subsequently intervened and Plan A has mutated into Plan B whereby this early in the planning stage both my husband and I are aiming to continue our 'day jobs' working mainly remotely with the odd jaunt back to the UK and putting our son into a resort school for the winter
I appreciate we're very fortunate in being able to work it this way and to be honest it never occurred to us as a possibility as my husband spends most days ploughing up and down the River Thames acquiring data for shipping until he approached his boss about the possibility of a sabbatical and they got their heads together to come up with what is a better solution for all - though it does (obviously!) mean he'll be effectively changing his job for the period. Don't suppose there's any way you could do something similar????
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks Alex - particularly for being the first to put a number on it - though not sure if you want to indicate the loan size this would support? I'm guessing its £500k to £750k of borrowing to add to your own £250k?
Good luck with your plans and with RBS...
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| kewhoward wrote: |
Thanks Alex - particularly for being the first to put a number on it - though not sure if you want to indicate the loan size this would support? I'm guessing its £500k to £750k of borrowing to add to your own £250k?
Good luck with your plans and with RBS... |
kewhoward, No worries at all. yeah thats about right depending on the cost of the chalet. The lowest with a £250,000 match to my £250,000. But realistically about £500,000 extra. So a total investment of £750,000.
So much depends on which market you go after in terms of quality. From running many many different models the numbers seemed to work aiming for the higher end of the spectrum as naturally the income is so much greater, but the outlay doesn't have to be huge amounts more. We are lucky in that we both work in the Corpoate and leisure travel industry and have run chalets before and ski instructed etc. The bank were very willing.
Right....must win a few more accounts to pay for this project !!
Alex
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Alex A, what about your children? How has that worked out? Thanks for sharing the figures.
As with most things it has to be a balance between what you borrow and have to payback and what you earn. I would imagine it's very hard at the start, but probably gets easier year on year. I too would be interested to hear the nuts and bolts of others who have done this.
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there are loads of things you would miss in blighty
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I've got as far as 1. Playing hockey 2. Music and Firework concerts - you know the Last night of proms type
That's about it
Certainly right that 2nd Jan is the day to be dreaming of leaving the UK
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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DB
(1) yes - in the ski industry
(2) no - language not a strong point.
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johnnyh, re the Kids ! Thats the tricky bit. We need to wait till they are both at the right age that we can have them in the local school etc. To be honest if there is one thing that will get in the way or persuade us to stay it may be the whole kids and having family so close thing. The amount of times we pool on my in laws is massive. Plus my parents would miss them so much.. The latst plan is definatley we would need to employ a chef and a part time chalet girl. I think with the kids you cant do it all yourself. This instantly makes it harder to make a profit ! But its a lifestyle move, with the added benefit that if it works well you can actually make a tidy profit and save an awful lot of money as you live off the business (maybe not tax legal !?)
Alex
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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become an IT contractor in the UK, get 6-9 months a work a year then enjoy the rest of the time off in the alps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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martski, I retired to the Alps 5 years ago but have felt guilty about not working. I've always enjoyed the buzz of business/making money but in the early years here, any business ideas were promptly kicked into touch by the grief (red tape mainly) and frustration of the French system. I now act as a selling agent to all the Estate Agents in the valley and have a French business partner, who for the rewards, is happy to take that grief. As we chiefly deal with buyers from the UK, my profit from the business is taxable in England.
From my experience, to answer kewhoward, you could start a business in the Alps for very little money but you need good contacts and come up with an niche idea that has yet to be mined.
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nessy, In my opinion Vancouver way better - having the sea on your door step is fantastic.
swimming/sea kayaking in the summer
best mtn biking in the world on the northshore
incredible varied dining
the list goes on and on.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Top places include Zurich, Geneva, Munich, Lyon, Nice, Milan, Vienna, Venice, Tokyo, Vancouver, Denver and Boston.
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Salt Lake City!
Don't forget Calgary.
Not for sissies who complain about the cold, though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lausanne gotta be up there i reckon. lots of jobs there and nice position on lake geneva
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Poster: A snowHead
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norris, but by Canadian standards wouldn't the Ligurian coast be on your doorstep 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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not sure i get you nessy,  I presume you mean my current location!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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kewhoward, don't do it Howard - keep climbing the greasy corporate pole(s) and take loads of weekend trips a year like me - Weekend Warriors rule!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do the Canadians get the same sort of holiday as the Americans? (ca 10 to 14 days a year)
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DB, holiday entitlements are generally lower, I have gone from 5 weeks plus 8 public holidays to 3 weeks plus 12 public holidays so lost 6 days. However I now get to the mountains every weekend! My wife just started a job with the local ski resort and gets 4 weeks holiday, but that is unusual without prolonged service.
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| Quote: |
Is your lodger in the French apartment or in the UK?
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Julieanne, our lodger is in the UK. When my daughter went off to uni we converted her ground floor room, which had its own entrance onto the quay at the back of our development, into a bed sit/studio. Our lodger pays £350 a month, makes a great contribution to security as she has several different jobs and comes and goes at different times, and looks after the cat when we're away. It's a sustainable income. The original idea was to rent out the rest of the house and have the studio for ourselves, as a pied a terre, and use the rental income to supplement pension etc. for travelling. For a variety of reasons, not least the unplanned purchase of the Alpine apartment, the plan changed.
Boris, I can't think why you should miss music and fireworks concerts - the French are rather good at both and they invented "son et lumiere"! In Lyons you can even go to fantastic concerts in a Roman amphitheatre. However, if you were running a chalet, you wouldn't have any time to attend concerts in the winter. It's a 24/7 life for four months of the year.
I may be wrong, but I get the impression that there is something of an over-supply of catered chalets at the moment; there seem to be any number of special deals available for all but the few peak weeks of the season. Even small, family run, restaurants in our neck of the French alps seem often to have one member of the family doing a job for wages elsewhere - mostly down in the big factory in Ugine.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, thanks for clarifying that. (I did wonder how you could fit a lodger into a French apartment-- as they are usually quite small!)
I am also thinking of creating a studio in my flat, renting it to someone I trust to look after the place and cats--and thus be able to spend a whole season in the Alps. It has been my dream for years!
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norris, no I meant my doorstep  At one time I would have loved Lausanne but never could get a job there (in software development)
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