 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ronald, All the Stoecklis I have skied have fantastic edge hold and are great to ski on. I'm a bit surprised though that the guy reckoned they'd not be strong (by that did he mean stiff?) enough. I've tried the Laser SC and Spirit at previous PSBs and they seemed fine to me - although clearly not race skis. Another one to maybe think about is the Dynamic iPerform 2.2 (I think that's the current designation). 10.5m radius at 155, and very quick to hook up into the turn - my current dryslope ski is the previous year's model. Possibly a bit soft for snow though, although the binding does stiffen the centre of the ski a huge amount. If you're thinking about these for snow though, I wonder whether you're not looking at rather too short lengths - for someone your height skis that short are not going to be the most stable longitudinally on anything other than hardpack, and I would recommend looking more at a standard slalom length of 165cm as that extra 10cm does make a big difference.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Any race department slalom ski in 165 would be just the ticket. Definitely grippy, usually playful.
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Or even drop down to 160 if you won't be racing on them. I tries a pair of Elan SLC's a couple of years ago in 155 or 160 and they were a hoot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Atomic ST12 would fit the bill well, others to try would be the Nordica Doberman SLR
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No less than 162-165 with your stats.....give the ski a chance.
Assuming you have skied a bit.
Stocklis are much fun play around skis, as are Elan's IME but anything SL oriented should be a blast
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GrahamN, I have a pair of 2006-07 Stoeckly laser GS in 176, with Vist plate+6-14 bindings They're fantastic. I think Stoeckli definetly have a very nice lineup of skis.
rob@rar, I have a pair of Voelkl Allstars in 168, which gives them 14.5 meters radius. Most race slaloms in 165 will be 13 meters. Not the difference with respect to the Allstars i'm looking for. I'm not racing, and i doubt i would have a chance if I were to pick that up (started waaay too late)
Not skiing dryslope either.
JT, Pretty much the only ski out there that fits in your recommendation are the Metrons. Skied quite a lot of weeks in a much less then average amount of years....
Skied on a pair of the 162 Metron B5's today, 2006-07 model. I believe they have barely been changed since their introduction in 2004 or so...
Had a blast, its about what i'm looking for. Turnturnturnmore! Carve and make snowballs hanging in the turns 
Definetly not straightline stable (76KPh through the speedtrap was pleeenty, but felt save if kept on edge all the time.
I'm not looking for an all-round ski. I still have the Voelkl Allstars (near end of life i'm afraid, they been beaten a lot last season) and the Stoeckli GS.
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Ronald, I wouldn't go as low as 11m. The previous generation of slalom skis were around that and they never felt to me as if the edge angle needed to make a turn matched up with the amount of inclination you needed to be in balance during it. The current 13m race skis feel a lot better to me.
Try some race slalom skis in a 165.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ronald, Can't believe that anyone would think the Stoecklis wouldn't be up to it - and then suggesting something shorter 
Regarding radius, I wouldn't treat the published radius as a descriptor for how the skis will feel.
I would expect any "real" race ski to well out-turn the Metron. The Dobermanns are a blast - but make sure you get the the full on version (R&D marked against all measurements on the tail). Also they like speed and don't seem to have any problems picking it up.
Would echo the "try" the 165cm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Murdoch, regarding the Stoeckli vs the RTC: exactly my idea. Didn't exactly press on regarding that matter. (Central sport was a bit busy, and Philippe isn't the guy with the best english in town)
Regarding the Dobermanns: Not sure they'll have the R&D versions..
The 'consumer' Dobermanns are quite popular among the teachers in Wengen.
Very hard to try something they don't have, especially if the nonR&D's are not similar 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ronald, The 155cm Stoeklis will be the female length, designed for skiers a fair bit lighter than you.
I don't think you can compare your experience with the Allstars to a real race ski. A race slalom ski will be a lot stiffer in torsion so will be able to work at much higher edge angles than a retail ski.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ronald, I used to own a pair of Metron B5s. They never gave me the kick coming out of turn that my Rossi 9S do. For me it's not just about the tightest possible turn radius but how stiff the ski is. I'd urge you to give a factory ski a try, especially if you work it hard as I've found them the most rewarding skis.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Okay took the Stoeckli GS 176cm out today (retail versions, 23.9meters radius, Vist 6-14 + vist plate (connecting front and rear bindings, makes the ski a lot stiffer underfoot then the salomon binding without I also skied the GS with)
When pushed hard enough they are (still!) amazing, but also can turn amazingly short when put hard on edge. When used gently they are dogs, and turn in huge arcs only.
Something with the difference in torsional stiffness between the racer ski (Stoeckli Laser series are) and the Allstars I assume?
I'll try to get a few runs on the retail Dobermanns SL 165 of my friend soon.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fischer rc4 sl 165..... they rip....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ronald,
I'd expect them not to behave so well at slow speeds..it isn't what they designed for.
If you want a ski to pootle around on then you are probably going to have to sacrfice the killer edge hold the stiffer ski can give...and go for the fun carvers which the Laser SC is.....
If you want the full blown race ski then accept its compromises which may well be that it is not a ski for all-day every day. It might be too tiring to ski like that all the time.
I tend to take out an SL/GS ski for hooning around on for a day when I can put the effort in, otherwise don't bother
I can't see how a fun carver can be more of a blast than a SL/GS race ski tho'.....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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JT, I realise the racer skis won't work well at slow speeds and easy style, If I want that i still have the Voelkls
I want a ski that pushes me and my technique. The GS does that for sure, i'm very sure i'm not getting the best out of them yet... (the sheer speed they like is a major factor in that) but i feel the Volkls are limiting in a way.
The tips given by all the guys so far (THANKS!) did give me more insight into different things, gonna have to try around to fill it all in now.
And I agree with the Funcarver vs racer... I seriously doubt the funcarver is what I look for. the tips and explanations around the racer are much more like it.
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Well... today was crap... Went out on the Volkls, didn't enjoy it. Found Elan at the top of Mannlichen promoting their material, so asked for their Slalom Racer (Elan RaceSL 165/12meter)
Found it lacking on Edge hold. Reasonably playful/turnable, overall I will not consider it.
Then took the Dobermann SLs, 165/13m. Nice smooth ski, very good edge hold... Miss some of the playfullness i seek...
Sidenote: Knackered legs today 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ronald, just out of interest, how do you define playful?
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Easy to go from edge to edge.. When I push the stoeckli GS it will sortof pop from turn to turn.. I used to get that from the Voelkls, but somehow getting less of that...
Basically Playful -> how it feels doing Kurzswung/short-linked-turns
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Ronald, IMHO, IME, I think that you're really going to have to track down some "true" race skis. The Stoecklis are the closest you've got and the ones you've liked best. If you happen to be in Muerren, try Eddy sports. (Not worth the trip just to try the skis). Or...wait till you get home and buy Volkl/Fischer FIS race SL skis from one of the German online guys.
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| Ronald wrote: |
Easy to go from edge to edge.. When I push the stoeckli GS it will sortof pop from turn to turn.. I used to get that from the Voelkls, but somehow getting less of that...
Basically Playful -> how it feels doing Kurzswung/short-linked-turns |
OK, same definition as me. My Rossi 9S WC don't so much 'pop' from turn to turn, but give a huge kick from turn to turn. I echo DM's advice about getting hold of proper race ski.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, Ronald, sounds like my definition too. My Dobermanns (SL-Rs) do that. or at least, they grab you by the scruff of the nexk and slingshot you into the next turn. Delightful.
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It might have been my knackered legs today... will grab the Nordica's some more when my legs aren't knackered...
They are SL's btw, not SL-R... is that a lab version vs retail?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Ronald wrote: |
| They are SL's btw, not SL-R... is that a lab version vs retail? |
Yes I think it is. Big difference between retail and race department.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Ronald, oh and another thing, I bought my Nordicas cos they were a good price and I fancied a proper pair of skis that would be challenging on piste. For almost the only time in my life I bought without trying. They were/are fantastic and do exactly what I wanted. They're also quite good offpiste and in powder.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, Most racers buy without trying too. You have vague descriptions about some brands being slightly softer than others but basically just go for whatever you can get good deals on.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rossi 9S
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I also bought my race skis (slalom and GS) un-demoed. Saw good prices on the internet and went for it. Not disappointed and I think I would have been happy with whatever brand I ended up with.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ronald, can't find a map I'm afraid.
I tested the Stoecklis a couple of years ago - SL and GS - the prevous versions. I liked them but neither as much as my Nordica SLs or my Rossi GSs (which are admittedly a little longer at 190cm than I'd really prefer). For the record I'm 5'6" tall and a mere 61kgs. So I do need to make up for bulk with technique.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ronald,
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Easy to go from edge to edge.. When I push the stoeckli GS it will sortof pop from turn to turn.. I used to get that from the Voelkls, but somehow getting less of that...
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How much have you used the Voelkls? If they've been used a lot would explain why you're getting less "pop" and is time for some new ones...
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beanie1, The volkls seen Plenty of abuse (all in all around 10 weeks and i'm not gentle with them, ski long days with little rest), and i'm seriously considering they may just have had it
David Murdoch, Going to have to try the Nordicas again with non-knackered legs
Getting more and more the hang of the Stoecklis, lots of fun, but its still a giant slalom ski, so everything is bigger
Had a blast today, despite being one of the busiest days I ever seen here in Wengen, everybody skidding around like crazy, and i was gripping like mad, i must be improving somehow
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*kicks the thread up hard*
Back in Wengen.
A friend offered me to try out his Dynastar Omeglass 64 Speed FIS spec toys at 165.... I'm curious!
Will have to follow a class around in the morning, but after that: Rock on!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Salomon 3V's my dream ski.... One day
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Ronald, How'd you get on? I would imagine that those babies rock...
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FAQ
Took a day of rest yesterday, visited the Jungfraujoch.. still not totally good 