 Poster: A snowHead
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So with all the recent hoo-haa about conflicting advice given by pros - here's a recent thread with relatively few pro contributions.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=33287
OP - How do I ski on ice?
A1: weight on the outside ski
A2: ignore it, ski slower
A3: sharpen your edges, lean forward, unweight
A4: demo some WC slalom skis
A5: dig your downhill ski in really hard
A6: soften every muscle, gently get the weight onto downhill ski
A7: go faster, slower is worse
A8: slower and softer is better
A9: clench buttocks, get skis flat
A10: sideslip
A11: even weight, flat skis, no edge
A12: wider stance, edge check at end of turn
A13: relax and edge
A14: wider stance, more 2 footed, get centered, soft on your edges
A15: don't turn
A16: sideslip
A17: release the edges
A18: outside leg release
A19: all your weight on downhill ski, really drive your skis
A20: relax
A21: no to wider stance
So how on earth is a newbie supposed to get a straight answer out of that lot?
Chocolate teapot?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 17-12-07 15:37; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, you just wait 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I go with the first part of A9, normally followed by a 'release' of sorts. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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veeeight, chocolate teapot it may appear to be, but I read it as a list of everyone's different coping strategies. None of them may be technically correct, some a bit tongue in cheek. Is there really onely one answer for everything?
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AxsMan, I hear brown ski pants are in this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well obviously I could tell you all the correct answer but I really woudn't want to contradict anyone 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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veeeight, what is the straight answer?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'll come back later after several lagers and put you all right 
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| bh1 wrote: |
| veeeight, what is the straight answer? |
I could give you one, but it just doesn't seem worth it!
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You know it makes sense.
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Isn't there more than one way to ski hard pack and ice? For me the joy & frustration (in equal measure) of skiing is that there is normally more than one way to skin the cat. Expecting simple answers to simple questions in BZK is unrealistic in my opinion, just as much as it is unrealistic to expect unanimity in some of the discussions which go on elsewhere on snowHeads whether that be related to skiing or not. Just so long as people are respectful of each others' opinion and experience I can't see what the problem is, even when there are firm disagreements between amateurs/pros, amateurs/amateurs or pros/pros.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rob@rar, absolutely. I'm sure if you asked four different ski instructors how to ski on ice you would get seven different answers. That particular question has so many variables anyway, depending on ability, what skis you are on and so on. How an experienced skier on factory prepared GS skis with an 87 degree edge angle copes with ice would differ somewhat from a newbie on a battered set of rental B2s.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Personally, I don't mind reading contradictory answers to the same question, I just like being able - with a little effort, if required, acknowledging that in many respects I am a bear of little brain - to understand those answers. I can't however, help feeling that you, veeeight, are starting threads with the specific intention of stirring up unpleasantness. This:
| Quote: |
bh1 wrote:
veeeight, what is the straight answer?
I could give you one, but it just doesn't seem worth it!
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is but one example of evidence for my theory. To my mind, a good way of answering that question might have been to give your answer, perhaps to give a reason for your answer as well and, my goodness this would be really revolutionary, to acknowledge that there is more than one way of skinning a cat and that there could be other, equally valid viewpoints out there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rob@rar, BGA, sorry, inadvertent duplication of your views.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight, We all know the correct answer, we just describe it differently
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The OP now has 20 options to try, a box of chocolate teapots.
87° does that include the 0.7° base angle?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I can't however, help feeling that you, veeeight, are starting threads with the specific intention of stirring up unpleasantness
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Oh trust me, there was not much stirring needed. The existing prevailing unpleasatness is of sufficient magnitude to have already seen off quite a few ski pros, and as I've indicated before, this is highly irritating.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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veeeight, forgive me, exacerbating might have been a better choice of word than stirring, but this does not affect the point I was trying to make.
Perhaps a better solution than flouncing off in a huff, would be for the offended professionals to tackle head-on, and in public, any remark that they find unpleasant (that at least would have the advantage of enabling other snowHeads to form their own view of where the fault, if any, lies) or to tackle the alleged miscreant via a pm. One professional has done this to my certain knowledge and a rather tense situation was, by dint of a heartfelt apology which the professional was open-minded enough to accept, defused - and everyone moved on, rather than away. A slightly more mature course of action?
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| veeeight wrote: |
So with all the recent hoo-haa about conflicting advice given by pros - here's a recent thread with relatively few pro contributions.
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=33287
OP - How do I ski on ice?
A1: weight on the outside ski
A2: ignore it, ski slower
A3: sharpen your edges, lean forward, unweight
A4: demo some WC slalom skis
A5: dig your downhill ski in really hard
A6: soften every muscle, gently get the weight onto downhill ski
A7: go faster, slower is worse
A8: slower and softer is better
A9: clench buttocks, get skis flat
A10: sideslip
A11: even weight, flat skis, no edge
A12: wider stance, edge check at end of turn
A13: relax and edge
A14: wider stance, more 2 footed, get centered, soft on your edges
A15: don't turn
A16: sideslip
A17: release the edges
A18: outside leg release
A19: all your weight on downhill ski, really drive your skis
A20: relax
A21: no to wider stance
So how on earth is a newbie supposed to get a straight answer out of that lot?
Chocolate teapot? |
The message is clear.
There is no one best way to ski.
Change one's style to suit the context.
Constantly adapt and change, depending on the situation.
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| Quote: |
There is no one best way to ski.
Change one's style to suit the context.
Constantly adapt and change, depending on the situation.
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No idea whether this view comes from Whitegold, His Holiness the Pope, or a sock puppet of either of them. Makes a lot of sense, though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, Awesome. Proof indeed. I have to say i stay away from BZK because i don't like to read too much, finding a gem to help someone ski is a job for a sub-editor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For me this is very easy
Q. How do you ski on ice
A. Very badly
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Stop.
Skiers who believe that "There is no best way to ski" are skiers who are in denial about improving their skiing.
Yes there are plenty of ways to ski a particular pitch. Some good, some bad, some better, some worse. "Getting down" or "Surviving" constitutes a "way" of skiing.
But there will be only one way to ski a particular pitch efficiently and effectively (with the best biomechanical advantage, balancing the forces, using the equipment, intent etc.)
Two at the most
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| Boris wrote: |
For me this is very easy
Q. How do you ski on ice
A. Very badly |
Me too
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You know it makes sense.
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There are many ways to skin a cat.
One can ski fast or slow. Gently or aggressively. Standing tall or in a tuck. Big turns or little turns. Straight-down or side-to-side.
All require different skills at different times.
There is no one best way to ski.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| There is no one best way to ski. |
Yes there is: With a smile on your face. Everything else is for losers! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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veeeight, Firstly, I don't want to get into an argument - but ...
a lot of us on here see the mogul skiers on TV and read about their technique. Now, I'm sure that is an efficient and effective way to ski moguls but a lot of us would never, ever, be able to do it because we're too old and have knackered knees. So we need a different way to get down them safely, with (hopefully) a little bit of style.
Just an example .....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There is no one best way to ski = There is no one best way to drive?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| There is no one best way to ski = There is no one best way to drive? |
The answer for both is the same. Safely and in control.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, well done! You've outlined just how I would have answered it! The clue was in one of my earlier posts, (intent). My complete rounded answer to that particular question would have encompassed two different tactical approaches, with different outcomes!
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veeeight, For me it all changed with Tomba (how would he ski ice), however there is still a deep schism in the skiing world, one leg or two.
Where do you stand (or is it hop) 
Personalty I have picked up a huge amount from snow heads (got my telepeage this morning) however I don't learn skills at all well by reading, I know others do.
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| Quote: |
Where do you stand
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Pinching WTFH's line, I ski on the NA continent, so avoid it for much of the time 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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veeeight, never pinch someone else's line. Particularly not on a powder day!
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Interesting... I think relative to the ice issue we have to possibly align peoples 'expectations' of what the skis might do with the 'reality' of what the skis might do.
ie IF you can get your skis to grip/bite on ice, its going to go f'ing fast. Are you ready for that?
IF you edge a bit but don't reach the 'biting point' things are going to tend to go sideways more than they would on grippier snow. Are you ready for that? (Its amazing how many people are caught out by that but its a predictable physical fact/reality).
There are different approaches, however we have to work within the reality of what our equipment (and bodies) will do.
(Yet its amazing how many people expect their skis to perform in a way that simply isn't physically possible.)
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FAQ
