Found rescued - and billed $15000

A snowHead

When I was rescued in Fernie in-bounds, the skidoo rescue was free (well, paid from the lift pass cost, I guess). But a rescue in Canada out of bounds can be pricey. Of course, most sHs will have insurance, but I am not sure that the insurance would cover you if you broke the rules - or am I being too gloom-and-doom?

A snowHead

achilles, you know my attitude to this.
If you ski out of bounds, you should not expect to be rescued
Rescuers should not be obliged to risk their own lives in this way.
These lads were lucky. They should be dead. $15000 seems a good deal.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

a big and difficult subject, isn't it? Should people pay if risks, which they have been warned against, end up costing somebody else money? This is a discussion topic I sometimes gave candidates at Fast Stream Civil Service interviews - to test their ability to make connections and analyse issues. If a drunk driver is injured in an accident, the NHS pays to mend him. The RNLI don't charge for rescues at sea, no matter how stupid or headstrong people have been. What about fat people who make themselves ill? Smokers? How much difference does it make if the "rescuers" have to risk their own lives? Are the issues different if the "rescuers" are paid (fire fighters) or volunteers (mountain rescue)?

Why does our society see nothing odd about spending £X of public money to save an experienced sailor who has suffered critical gear failure in a round the world yacht race, when the same amount spent on, for example, perinatal care could save more lives? Pub commentators, and people complaining because the NHS won't give them expensive drug treatments, tend to say "you can't put a price on a human life". Well you have to, and the NHS (and other parts of government) are doing so, explicitly or implicitly, every minute of every day. Should the basis for such decisions be more transparent - and ultimately, who should decide? If a private organisation is forced into expensive rescues then it does seem eminently reasonable for them to charge people who have broken their rules. If uninsured people incur costs in a fire, or a flood, or lose their skis, they would normally have to pay.

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I was involved in a sweep of Kirkwood one evening for two teenage boys aged 14 and 15 who went missing. They had inadvertently gone beyond the ski area trying to seek shelter from a fierce blizzard off the ridge from the Cornice Express and in doing so skied the wrong way off the ridge. They were picked up around midnight and fetched back to Kirkwood by Piste Basher.

Thus it should not be assumed that everyone who gets rescued beyond resort limits necessarily did something that some here would consider intentionally wreckless, mistakes can be made, esp in poor weather. But this raises serious issues over insurance as well, if your out of the patrolled area and you don't have off-piste cover, your probably going to be screwed no matter what the circumstances.

Whatever people might think of Scottish Skiing, it's one of the best things about mountain sports here is an enlightened law on land access along with the rescue network that is in place. While for the five ski areas the terrain regularly swept by patrol are defined, the scenarios above in this thread are not going to happen, whether your skiing in the regularly patrolled area or backcountry touring, walking or winter climbing. During winter Ski Patrol may be the first response to the aid of someone on difficulty on the mountains in and around the ski areas regardless of whether they were skiing or not and esp at CairnGorm and Nevis are sometimes the first response to climbing incidents beyond the ski area, esp if snow cover permits rapid mechanised transport.

Nevis Ski Patrol drop in to go to the aid of a Climber injured in a leader fall on the East Face of Aonach Mor.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Arno, I suspect it is a moral obligation that rescuers feel. Helping others is always rewarding.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Although I do not defend those who go out of bounds unprepared, my understanding is that in Canada, you cannot be legally enforced to pay rescue bills. Those who are rescued are often sent an invoice, and many pay out of shame (that's the idea)- but it's also important to understand that there is no legal obligation to pay bills that have been levied by rescurers in Canada. If you read the article above carefully- it says the two "might" have to pay....The bills are sent out to raise public awareness of the actual costs of rescue.
Unlike the United States, where much of the land is either private or under the juristiction of the United States Forest Service, in Canada, the majority of "out of bounds" terrain is actually public crown land- meaning that you have a right to be there. Those who violate the rules of a ski area by crossing a boundary line may face loss of skiing privilages and may be "fined" by the ski resort.
You can and will be billed by the ambulance service, and if you're not Canadian, that's where your insurance policy becomes very important. An ambulance ride can be very expensive, to say nothing of any medical bills you incur once you reach the hospital. (If you're a Canadian, and in Canada, you're covered for all of the above by default- the wonders of public healthcare). The Ambulance service in Canada does not perform rescues-for example: ski patrol and / or search and rescue may find you, place you in a helicopter, and then transfer you to the edge of a paved roadway, where you will then be placed in the care of the ambulance service (that's when the clock starts regarding billing if you are a non-resident) If you take a helicopter ride c/o of the ambulance service, you could easily face a massive "real" bill- but once again, the ambulance service helicopter will not be the one picking you off the side of a mountain.
Happy sliding, and be sure to donate your spare change to the local rescue service where ever you chose to go out-of-bounds in Canada- they can use all the funding that they can get, and they spend far too much time and resources rescuing dummies who place themselves needlessly in harms way.

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snowball, the thread was started by achilles referring to someone being rescued from Out of Bounds.
I too like walking in the hills of Scotland, but I have yet to come across a sign like this.
Whether or not out-of bounds-skiing in north america is illegal is not clear (see these links: latimes.com, wildsnow.com, moutainbuzz.com, nytimes.com).
But i still contend that if you go beyond a sign that says "You assume the risk of injury or death", then you waive the right to expect rescue.

Arno is correct in stating the choice to be a Rescuer is voluntary, but there is no justification for expecting these people to go ridiculous lengths to rescue the irresponsible. The dispute is just where that limit is.

snow reports

Keep in minds folks that what is called "out of bounds" in this article would likely be considered "off piste" in Europe. Ski resorts in North America have very specific and well defined boundaries (normally limited to the property owned or leased by the resort). Once you go past those boundaries you are by definition "out of bounds". It does not necessarily mean you are skiing in a risky or dangerous area. On the other hand, in Europe if you ski "out of bounds", it usually means you have gone somewhere foolish.

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Found rescued - and billed $15000

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