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Telemark bindings

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've just pushed the "Complete Order" button on some telemark bindings. Hardest decision I think I've ever had to make in skiing.

You are, it seems, not just buying bindings - you're buying an ethic.

Your basic choices:
- 3 pin
- classic cable
- less classic cable
- plate
- integrated boot / binding system

And then add in:
- active / passive
- release / non-release
- touring / non-touring
- adjustable / non-adjustable.

So. Quite clear really. I know nothing. I need help.

So I ask for advise off two telemark instructors.

"You defo want release bindings. Save those knees."

"Most things are fine. Cable or plate. Don't, no matter what you do, buy a release binding. Absoluate nightmare. Anything but release."

Further emails to clarify...

"Non-adjustable."

"Adjustable."

Yeah. Thanks. FFS.

So. A pair of fairly randomly chosen Twenty-Two Designs Hammerheads on their way. Non-release. Adjustable. Tour mode.

Now for the fun part. I'm going to have a go at mounting them myself. Where's the drill...?


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 14-01-08 22:04; edited 7 times in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
So where you gonna mount them? Balance centre? Chord centre? On the line? The choices haven't finished yet!

FWIW I'm not 100% sure about releasable tele binders. I used to alpine with my bindings around 16 so it's not like I want my ski to come off. I've had some pretty big spills on non-release teles and I've never felt that my knees, or legs as-a-whole. Just something else to go wrong.

Do you have experience of other bindings? I own Rotafella Cobras, BD 02s and soon to be delivered Bomber Bishops. So far I way prefer the feel of the BDs. I'd like to know your thoughts on the Hammerheads when they arrive.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Nice work - let us know how the Hammerheads go. I've got Targas but Then I've only really skied Cobras & a 7tm as well so haven't got a lot of experience. Don't really rate the release plates and I've got a dodgy knee.

What skis are you mounting?
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Blimey, if I'd known is was going to be this complicated I might have had second thoughts about giving it a try! Will these new bindings get an outing at Milton Keynes on the 15th before they head out to Morzine?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar, it becomes very simple if you follow the rest of the ethic, and pick up dodgy second or thirdhand kit from the previous owner(s) for the price of three smokes. All prejudices sorted for you...

Splash out and buy into possible preconceptions, prejudices, and personal preferences de novo- OOOF!
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comprex
Quote:

for the price of three smokes



you like cigar, i have good price on cigar Toofy Grin
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
parlor - dear god mate, did you have to do that? I'm afraid you're going to have to cough up the explanation now...

...oh. And I think we can all safely assume that I know nothing wink

fatbob - they're going on my old Aztec Pros. Unless I spot anything else to mount them on at a good price.

rob@rar - start reading! No show at Milton Keynes, sorry - I'll be in Morzine that weekend. Good advice from comprex methinks.

CEM - how much for the woman? I offer you six Zipfits, three carbon fibre poles and a pair of 1970s ski goggles for the woman!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
parlor wrote:
So where you gonna mount them? Balance centre? Chord centre? On the line?

Ok, so I now almost get that...

Any wisdom on this guys? They're old skis and will be replaced once I know how I feel about this telemarking lark...
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PhillipStanton, will post later my thoughts, heading to the airport...
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PhillipStanton, Hammerheads ? Me too snowHead - mounted them on my Intuitiv Bigs this weekend. The mounting template makes the job a breeze Very Happy As for mounting position I went for what the instructions said - can always move them later.

I used to have a Voile release.... what I found was this; 1) Heavy (!) 2) Does save your knees 3) If a leash breaks you'll loose a ski Crying or Very sad 4) The big plate messes up the ski flex (although this has been fixed now) 5) Crampons + Release = much faffing 6) Even more to go wrong (ended up carrying more tools and repair kit than I would on my 23 year old BMW) rolling eyes

If you need any help/advice on mounting - drop me a PM.
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PhillipStanton, couldnt agree more I am still not sure if releasable bindings is a good choice for a beginner but my mind was made up as i didnt find anywhere on line that you could actually buy releasable bindings. rolling eyes , I kinda gave up in the end and similar to you and just went with a bog standard G3 cable binding from S&R (i have a credit note) which showed on their site as being in stock but 7 weeks later and still not arrived......

oh and i just remembered they dont come with straps and i will need to order some, but why is it i need straps with a non release binding i say to myself and quizz Richard...

Good question says Richard although "non release" the cable is flexible and will generally come off if you dont have it done up too tight and the skis will run away... so are semi releasable.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks parlor and ski.

I'm sorting out some drill bits through spyderjon and am much heartened by ski saying they're easy to do. In truth I'm looking forwards to having a go - sort of a right of passage thing to mess around with your own bindings. ski is, of course, right that they can be moved - which is somewhat helped by them having a symmetrical plate.

skimottaret - I get the feeling we've crossed over to "enthusiast land"...

...the Telemark Pyrennes chappie phoned me to say that didn't want to sell me the leashes I'd ordered - some other ones being much better. Very kind of him, but I'm bemused to find that there's even opinions to be had on leashes!
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
PhillipStanton, Couple of things;

1) The graphics on each ski topsheet are never in exactly the same position - so be careful when you align the mounting template.

2) Getting the template straight along the length of the ski is probably the most important ! Last weekend I spend 30 mins measuring, aligning, checking, 2 mins drilling and 5 mins assembling.

3) The heel piece is a PITA to assemble (even the instructions say so) but it does go together in the end.

Good luck !
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks ski.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
PhillipStanton, You hit the nail on the head Telemark = Bemusement. Your leash story makes total sense to me now..... although the ones you ordered are cr*p they carry them and probably at least 4 different types to cater for every freeheelers whim (you never know when someone will need a leash for a 3 pin leather boot circa 1937). however they cant actually say they are rubbish on their web site to avoid upsetting any diehards who happen to like that certain make or model. So in the spirit of telemarking they happily accept your order for like.... what 11 euro.... and then spend 9 euro calling you and very helpfully explain how rubbish the one you ordered is rolling eyes

I like the whole concept of total free heel confusion and pain in the assidness as per ski's instructions. Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
All of this messing around and uncertainity basically confirms my feeling about telemarking Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
DaveC wrote:
All of this messing around and uncertainity basically confirms my feeling about telemarking Very Happy


It's not uncertainty, well maybe a little, it's just that none of us our experienced enough to be definitive about the set up. Telemarking is much more sensitive than skiing, it's not until you get to a high level of skiing that you are bothered about whether or not your bindings are forward or back. As PhillipStanton is drilling his first set of skis he's right to be concerned about things like, getting it right! Most skiers turn up at the shop and ski what they are given.

PhillipStanton I have always telemarked with in a Scandinavian style, they prefer balance centre to chord centre. I have currently mounted two pairs of twin tips, both are +1cm from balance centre. They are stable at speed, carve nicely and don't suffer form tip dive. I would recommend going for balance centre, which should be forward of chord centre, while you are still starting out this will help with turn initiation.

The other thing to do would be post of TTips about the Aztec Pro, be specific, don't ask how to mount them, just if anyone has thoughts on their sweetspot.

Good luck.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Reading this thread makes me think again about having a go at telemarking, especially now that I'm fitter than I was.
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Kramer, makes me think the opposite - I feel tired just reading it Confused
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DaveC wrote:
All of this messing around and uncertainity basically confirms my feeling about telemarking Very Happy

But you fail to spot that I secretly like all of this messing around wink
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parlor wrote:
DaveC wrote:
All of this messing around and uncertainity basically confirms my feeling about telemarking Very Happy


It's not uncertainty, well maybe a little, it's just that none of us our experienced enough to be definitive about the set up. Telemarking is much more sensitive than skiing, it's not until you get to a high level of skiing that you are bothered about whether or not your bindings are forward or back. As PhillipStanton is drilling his first set of skis he's right to be concerned about things like, getting it right! Most skiers turn up at the shop and ski what they are given.

PhillipStanton I have always telemarked with in a Scandinavian style, they prefer balance centre to chord centre. I have currently mounted two pairs of twin tips, both are +1cm from balance centre. They are stable at speed, carve nicely and don't suffer form tip dive. I would recommend going for balance centre, which should be forward of chord centre, while you are still starting out this will help with turn initiation.

The other thing to do would be post of TTips about the Aztec Pro, be specific, don't ask how to mount them, just if anyone has thoughts on their sweetspot.

Good luck.


This is a good point - my current tele setup is definitely mounted in what I would consider to be a traditional "alpine" place and seems a lot further back than my more progressive mount on my main alpine skis. Result - well I tend to blame the skis for being too long and I only really start to feel comfortable when I let them run a bit. For a novice parlor's advice seems sensible - if you're not likely to be getting deep into the fresh then tip dive is less relevant than getting the feel for good turns from easy initiation.

Hmm the luddite in me says - can I be bothered getting a remount when skis are on their last legs anyway?
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Thanks parlor. Anything that helps me initiate turns has to be a winner. What I really need to do, of course, is demount the skis and see where all the various points are. The Hammerheads have a six hole symmetrical mount - so it may be that I can drill eight holes and experiment. The Aztecs are relatively old and the extra few holes aren't going to hurt - I'm hardly going to push the skis at this point.

skimottaret - this strikes me as being like my conversations with MrsPhillipStanton about skining. She simply doesn't understand why you'd skin up something, when there's a perfectly good chairlift a few miles away. I guess it's case that we've signed up for all the geekiness that goes with this. Men in sheds, etc.

fatbob - surely you just need a new pair of skis then!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Oh dear, this thread title is really, really getting to me. A singular 'ethic'? The concept of buying ethics? Sorry, I'll get my coat.
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The mounting instructions with the Hammerheads do mount forward of chord centre BTW.
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Hurtle wrote:
Oh dear, this thread title is really, really getting to me. A singular 'ethic'? The concept of buying ethics? Sorry, I'll get my coat.


Yes. The telemark ethic. No soap, no worries. Wink
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
YOu want geekiness get some VIST interchangable bindings and telelmark adapters mate.

I hope Spyderjon mounted the VIST bindings on my Karma's in the optimum Alpine/telemark position... would hate to get any tip dive in Milton Keynes Laughing

On a cool note got new insoles and had my scarpa T2's heat moulded at profeet yesterday and they are SWEEEEEEEEEET...... even gave me a 10% BASI discount. who says basi courses dont pay off.

gonna give tele a go over christmas in mottaret, cant wait
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
skimottaret - T2s? I hope you've not bought red, or we're going to look like Howard and Hilda. Confused

Hurtle - get that coat off! First of all, you should understand that I don't have enough integrity to have ethicS - hence the singular. Now let me show you my 3 pins... snowHead
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Look at the size of my duckbill.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
PhillipStanton, As red as can be.... ps managed to copy that disc we talked about and will bring with...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
skimottaret,
Quote:

YOu want geekiness get some VIST interchangable bindings and telelmark adapters mate.


Geekiness is locating 9/32" stainless countersunk machine screws (to fix bindings to release plate) , cutting down an Allen key to fit in Leatherman toolkit and then phoning Loctite to get some industrial-strength threadlock ! Toofy Grin


and then finding the above did not work so the bindings still came loose Embarassed
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
PhillipStanton said
Quote:

Don't, no matter what you do, buy a release binding. Absoluate nightmare.

This was quite true about the Voile plates, but the 7TMs are a different matter completely - absolutlely no problems in 2 seasons' use.

They come with ski-brakes, so no need for leashes (still require strap on heel-bail to prevent accidental release of boot). If the plate releases the brakes work like alpine. However, they are always retracted with the plate in place, so care required when putting them on on steep slopes.

One thing not often considered - when in the backcountry where there's a possibility of avalanches it's not a good idea to be permanently attached to your skiis.

In the event of an av. hopefully your skis will release, giving you more chance to reach the surface before the av. comes to a halt. Conventional tele-bindings and leashes mean you're permanently attached, but with 7TMs you can break free.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I very nearly bought the 7TMs geoffers - the Power Tours for £108. Did I get my back bottom in gear to buy them? Nope. Proscrastinated like a proper geek because I was trying to find someone who'd used them. Thought "sod it, I'll buy them anyway..." and...sold out. rolling eyes

You are, of course, right about the avalanche risk.

ski, I BOW to your geekiness. You're a true professional Toofy Grin

skimottaret, you'll have to be "Hilda" then. I had my boots fitted first - which gives me first dibs wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
PhillipStanton said,
Quote:
the Power Tours for £108

Wow - that's a good price, where was that - braemar have them for £195!!!


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 28-11-07 23:21; edited 1 time in total
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Sorry guys! Embarassed
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
What are you sorry for Hurtle? Cross over to the telemark side. You "know" you want to wink

geoffers - I've, errrr, lost the link. I know, £108 was a steal. Where's that "slap head" emoticon when you need it...
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PhillipStanton, There was no need to change the thread title on my account - it's made me even MORE embarrassed for having strayed into this highly specialist area, about which I know sod all. (I'd love to be able to telemark, it's so graceful - but, sadly, it would almost certainly not be graceful if I tried it. Can't face learning something entirely new at this stage, anyway.) [Lazy smiley]
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
PhillipStanton, you forgot 'very own'.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Hurtle - graceful????? You haven't seen me telemark rolling eyes

comprex - your wish, etc...
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There. I think I've got the thread title spot on there. Unless anyone's got any improvements...?
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PhillipStanton, what did I do to deserve this attention? Shocked
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