 Poster: A snowHead
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Do trappist monks by being virtuous and quiet in quiet and virtuous surroundings but not testing themselves against temptation in the real world achieve anything?
Unless you are a racer - what is the maximum percentage of your time on the snow that you should -as an intermediate or advanced skier - spend in instruction?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When the cost starts to outweigh the benefit, so I suppose it depends on your wallet just as much as your capacity to improve  I think everyone, regardless of ability, could benefit from someone with a good eye taking a thorough look at all their skiing at least once a season, maybe for one or two private lessons. Beyond that I don't think there is an upper limit provided you work with an instructor who offers enjoyable lessons. I'd soon stop instruction if it started to feel like doing maths homework, but happily I've not yet reached that point/found that instructor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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(admits to thinking up maths homework to divert himself whilst swimming laps and attending group ski lessons/clinics  )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stoatsbrother, perhaps it depends on why you ski, what you want to get out of it, the type of person you are, etc.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't think you can ever have too much of instruction/coaching, but of course this depends on where your motivation lies.
For the past 3 years, we have seen groups of skiers who have a lesson season passes with us, so every year they return, for 22 weeks worth of lessons (5 or 6 days out of 7).
Their improvement week upon week is amazing, they just get better and better, learn more and more, and yet we continue to challenge them - every day is different.
This, may, of course be OTT for many people, but it just goes to show that you can never stop improving with guided instruction and coaching.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| veeeight wrote: |
| ... skiers who have a lesson season passes with us ... |
Just out of interest, how much does that cost?
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veeeight, Interesting - but what are they actually improving for if they don't test their skills away from instructors?
I have no particular answer to this myself - may be just looking at the thinking behind how people decide when they have done enough... for now...
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The Supergroups lessons passes for ski/snowboard (interchangable, so you can do both) are CAN$1600 for unlimited daily lessons (max of 3 in a class).
The Summit Session ski/snowboard group pass is considerably cheaper, CAN$700 for unlimited daily group lessons, but max of 8 in a class.
On the other hand, the WB Platinum Ski/Snowboard pass, with unlimited access to *all* group lessons, including multi-day lessons (eg: Dave Murray Camps) is a mere CAN$4,400.
Where do I sign you up? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What's the exchange rate with CAN$ at the moment? If you set up base in Les Arcs I'll be your first customer
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stoatsbrother, at a particular jucture in their development, the teachine/coaching model changes. So at every level of their development, we are challenging them, but in different ways.
So for example, at an advanced/expert level, we are no longer talking about basic technique, more about terrain and line choice, improvisation, creative thinking, tactics etc. It's no longer a "follow me" type session, more like we put them into different scenarios and they have to work out the best way around that. So we're getting them to think for themselves and work out solutions, for what can be extremely difficult/dangerous scenarios.
But you're right, you always need time by yourself to consolidate, which is why we never reccommend 7/7 days per week of instruction/coaching. In the event they do turn up on day 7 though, it becomes more a guiding session (by mutual agreement) as they know that we always know the best spots on that particular day!
*Geeky note for interested instructors - the CSIA Skier Development Model was presented at Interski 2007, to much acclaim as to how a skier develops skills throughout their skiing life, and how the CSIA teaching model reflects this path.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 19-11-07 23:08; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
What's the exchange rate with CAN$ at the moment?
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Roughly CAN$2 to GBP1.
Excellent value for those earning GBP and spending CAN$ 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, I'd agree. IME, there's a cost/benefit curve - also a time cost/learning benefit curve - and a lesson/practice curve.
I reckon (in all humility of course  ) I need a lesson or two, every couple of years to maintain standards. If I wanted to add something new (racing, helis, rails, park) I'd need (or want) more intensive work.
veeeight, How long does that go on for? Does there not get to be a point where organised, group lessons are not terribly productive? I would have imagined so?
But that's not answering the question. It's too much if you could progress faster with less lessons and more freeski time. How can you tell whether it's too much is clearly a harder and more important question.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 19-11-07 23:11; edited 1 time in total
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| veeeight wrote: |
*Geeky note for interested instructors - the CSIA Skier Development Model was presented at Interski 2007, to much acclaim as to how a skier develops skills throughout their skiing life, and how the CSIA teaching model reflects this path. |
veeeight did either you or skidude post about that before? I seem to recall reading something on it but not quite sure.... I'm a bit drugged out so struggling to recall it...
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight, that's a bargain. the financial model must either rely on most people not using it that much - or not paying instructors that much.... or both.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Does there not get to be a point where organised, group lessons are not terribly productive?
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Which is why I don't teach groups larger than 3
No, seriously, it all depends on the motivation of the individuals concerned. Plus the approach taken by the instructor.
LT I think I may have mentioned it in passing before now.
SB, not many people have the time nor the motivation to to improve on snow for 22 weeks of the year! But they exist, we are always busy.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Enough the first day at lunchtime to have watched the newbies 'Chin' the egg in their 'Carbonara' like a shot to know i was in the wrong group. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Having just had a look at the ski school prices for where we are off to in February, I think the kids have had enough ski school for the time being, Ouch!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, are you talking about snowheads?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wear The Fox Hat, You still got egg on your face?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| Omlette Features, You still got egg on your face? |
Maybe.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Even if money is no object, there's still the motivation & goal (or the lack of such?). I even don't see much point in perfection when it comes to skiing. For most, it's a leasure activity that doesn't have a set goal.
Some people are just content to cruise around the mountain. Tourist on ski, so to speak. I'm one of such, to some degree. Even though I do reserve a small percentage of my snow time for lesson on whatever improvement I find I'm in the mood for.
To be honest, I see little urgency in improvement at this point of my skiing. I can get down almost all of the piste in good control. Off-piste, I haven't encounter enough variety to get to know what care to but can not do. So, it's much higher priority to just ski more. As I explore more diversed terrain, I'm sure I'll be ready for more lesson at some later point.
I went through stages of my skiing like that. And I can see other skiers went through the same stages as I did. The free skiing is not just for "pratice" of lesson material either. It's time to gain experience and apply the skill learn to suit situations. I'd rather do such exploration and discovery on my own.
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You need to have it in mind what you want to do and how to go about it. If you want off-piste lessons then ok, or you might find you have enough experience and skill and spend the money on a guide which can take you places an instructor can't. You might trade specific drills for conditions and terrain. You might find you get on well by adapting what you have and trying a few more things in a like-minded group.
You might just want to experiment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm gonna sound like billy no mates here, which is not the case, honest. I've persuaded my hubby to take up skiing but he just isn't as fanatical as I am so I go to lessons to have someone to ski with 
When I go away on girly trips with my friends I don't take lessons.
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veeeight, *Geeky note for interested instructors - the CSIA Skier Development Model was presented at Interski 2007, to much acclaim as to how a skier develops skills throughout their skiing life, and how the CSIA teaching model reflects this path.
_________________
any links to the presentation for us geeks?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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stoatsbrother, I think the question is equally valid for a learner. I think a learner could have too much instruction. My kids have 2 hours a day for 4 days running then on the 5th day have their race. I have an hour an day 4 days running. 2 hrs a day keeps the kids occupied, but I don't think they would stand much longer, and with 1:1 instruction I think an hour is enough. I feel that time to practice what you have learned is just as important. In terms of how long to keep up this level I would think until I'm comfortable down most black runs probably.
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I've a terminator outlook to having lessons - I absolutely will not stop.
Megamum I bet you don't. You'll do blacks with ease and then look whistfully at the piste side powder and bumps thinking, "Now I want to do that!"
Sorry, but it just seems to work that way.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
any links to the presentation for us geeks
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I'll have a root around.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Give up taking lessons when you want to give up learning! As an instructor my resort requires I attend a certain number of training clinics per season, and the professional organization requires that I attend a certain number of Educational Events every two years. There's always something different to learn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I bet lots of us do other sports than skiing.
It might be interesting to look at which of those sports we keep up instruction. And why.
I started instruction when I took up squash again after a 20 year gap.
I continued instruction for two reasons. Lessons made the game more enjoyable. And other players were taking lessons: I wanted keep up with them.
I think I take skiing lessons for the same reasons
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FAQ
I don't subscribe to the philosophy but I do respect it. 