 Poster: A snowHead
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Just reading the Dec issue of the Daily Mail Ski & Board and wondered, as all the ski testers are experts, what is their definition of 'high speed'? i.e. the elan magic wave (which a lot of ladies really love) is scored 'poorly for high speed...' Is it 50km/hr, 60, 70???
The testers are also critical of the skis off piste ability, but all the skis tested are described as 'on-piste skis'. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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erica2004, I tested them at Castleford so any sort of "high" speed was a non starter  As was off piste!
They are good on-piste but I felt that they would not be particularly good off. But I can't describe why. Probably just a feeling that something that good on could not be good off. That and the shape, I guess.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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erica2004, If the testers are critical of a modern ski's off piste ability they are actually saying that they aren't that "expert" off piste themselves. People skied for decades on pencil thin, heavy skis but still had a good day off piste. I know they are making a comparison to those skis that do perform better off piste but, for journalistic purposes, they make the discrepancy sound worse than it probably is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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erica2004, never mind the quality, feel the width (of the column inches).
Without reading it - I would question the "expert" status - as all too often testers are experts at, inter alia, merchandising, ski boot fitting, etc. and not at actually skiing.
Never mind, ski tests don't generally tell you anything anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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as all the ski testers are experts
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Are they? I don't often buy DMS&B anymore but the testers used to be intermediate and upward, including some ex-racers but not all "expert" by any means.
If you are a typical one week a year skier, and don't get the first lift up to blat down deserted reds in the morning, then I wouldn't worry too much about high speed ratings.
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The testers are also critical of the skis off piste ability, but all the skis tested are described as 'on-piste skis'
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Well that makes sense then, doesn't it? It would be a bit unexpected if they were all wonderful off-piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
| for journalistic purposes, they make the discrepancy sound worse than it probably is. |
Can I use that as a sig line? 
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comprex, as long as you put... Copyright B Swiller 
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Bode Swiller, top material...done.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, gee that makes me so proud. Where should the invoice go? (on second thoughts don't answer that)
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erica2004, I think you'll find that the lower bound for the range of speeds carrying the journalistic label of 'high speed' is somewhere around 35mph.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, Thanks - that's all I wanted to know.
David Murdoch, Seems a little harsh 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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erica2004, say you despise mushrooms. Top reviews of a restaurant by 17 dozen critics (who all, unknown to you, love mushrooms). Do you then like the restaurant?
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comprex, I might give it another go and avoid the mushrooms.
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You know it makes sense.
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erica2004, knowing what good stuff Elan put into their skis, I'd be gobsmacked if the Magic Wave wasn't perfectly stable at speed (and just fine off piste)... and what do they mean anyway? Holding an edge in a high speed turn or going dead straight? I bet they're very good allrounders.
On a test there is also a phenomenon called "Buggin's turn"... eg you can't have every category dominated or won by the same brand otherwise all the other brands cry foul and it's bye bye advertising. So, last year the XYZ won the best in class so, this year, it'll be Buggin's turn! Get it? Same goes on in the car industry. BMW, Mercedes, Audi up against each other in group tests and the winnings, over time, get shared. Of course all 3 brands are as excellent as each other but we are led to believe otherwise. Fact is this... if you or the so-called experts did a blindfold test they'd hardly tell the difference between skis. Sometimes they look down, see the brand, judge the graphics and pre-judge the performance. If you can't have a great day's skiing on ANY brand (provided it is properly tuned, roughly right length, and roughly right performance level) then it ain't the ski's fault.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bode Swiller, Reminds me of a famous review in a HiFi magazine which reviewed a particular amplifier as "Best Buy" and gave it 5 stars. A couple of months later they reviewed the new model and gave it 3 stars and said it didn;t match up to the previous model. It then transpired that the two models were, actually, exactly the same just in a different colour case!!! Overall I think reviews of any type should be taken with a large pinch of salt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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erica2004,
I wouldn't think you'd blow out that type of ski but bear in mind the market it is aimed for.. If it is suitable for a certain level of intermediate
then they aren't likely to be doing 30mph plus very often at all. The ski would need a degree of forgiveness which helps make it skiable across a wider range of skill but that very trait would not help it run well very quickly. Something simple like the faster you go requires a stiffer ski to hold onto a turn at that speed and that stiffness makes the ski needing more precise input... which might not be condusive to the skill-set of the target skier.
If you can't test the ski yourself, then try and get as much like-minded input from other testers. All these reviews in mags do, is put the ski
into the frame, you'll still be wise to test it yourself. In these situtations ( for your skiing ) no-one can test it as well as you can.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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erica2004, "harsh"? Why? Honest, it's only my opinion, but that's how I think it works. Under the "what's more likely?" rule, I think I'm probably right...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller,
By and large I agree that there aren't really any bad modern skis out there but there are some which are clearly designed for different purposes. Usually shape and dimesions are a better guide to how a ski will perform than any technobabble about the unobtainum layer in the ski or reviews saying how rad it is. However word of mouth often lines up although maybe on tinternet its a case of me too. A few years ago TGR was all about the Gotama, then the Spatula became the rad ski now its the Bro Model or another boutique brand. Over here we've been through the B2, the atomic Metron whatever, the Mission etc. Meanwhile anyone freethinking will buy what they demo and like best or what they simply get the best deal on.
I notice that most testers are now described as expert or advanced. Is "advanced" the new "immediate"?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Is "advanced" the new "immediate"?
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yes, without having had to learn how to finish a turn.
Like modern tennis rackets and golf clubs, today's skis have huuuuuuuuuge sweet spots and you should be able to jump on just about any ski and take it just about anywhere. Ski tests are almost meaningless, them being more about what's "in" than what works. One of the best skiers I ever skied with had a pair of what you might call "hybrids"... a 210 GS ski on one foot and a 223 DH ski with the tail cut off on t'other foot. He was broke and didn't care but he had technique and was fearless.
Like you so rightly say though,
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anyone freethinking will buy what they demo and like best or what they simply get the best deal on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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awksquak - unless it's a Sony and What HiFi when it's guaranteed 5 stars.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, I think "advanced" is meant to fall somewhere between "intermediate" and "expert".
I also think (Gross generalisation alert!) that the majority of people who ski a week once or twice a year and have been doing for a few years will be "intermediate", while the majority of those who ski a week 3-6 times per year and have been for a while will be "advanced".
To be an "expert", you will probably need to ski more than that, or to have previously done so and still ski enough to maintain your skills, or done sufficient training to acheive ski instructor standard.
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Fish and Worms.
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Fish and Worms.
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