What is the best thing to do if it all goes pear shaped?

A snowHead

I've got in mind when things start going out of control, rather than a wipeout, Particularly the situation when you might come to a change in terrain that you can't easily see over and suddenly find yourself on a steeper section where you are going faster than you want to and are in danger of a plummet down the fall line. I think as a beginner this is the most worrying scenario. If you can keep your wits long enough to do something what is the best way to gain control of the situation?

A snowHead

Slow down

Dont panic and try and turn uphill

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Megamum, Turn!!!

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Turn out of trouble or just point 'em straight down and ride out the trouble. Twisted Evil

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Cut out fatty foods and get some exercise in daily

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OK, so what if you've managed to get your weight behind the skis Skullie

You, know what I've just typed the above and clicked as to where this fear factor probably comes from. In Lenzerheide 10+ years ago on long skis the weight ended up behind the skis and they ran out of control and I crashed in the kinderlift, I bet thats where the fear comes from. On that day I vowed never again to let weight get behind the skis. I wonder if I can now get round it asa concept.

After all it is free

Megamum, get your hands forward, plant a pole and jump headfirst down the piste.

Worst thing you can ever do is panic

make sure that you turn and take some of your speed off

Or if all else fails don't be too afraid to just dig your skis in and crash

To be honest though when your a beginner you will have very few times when you end up getting to a out of control situation where you are in serious danger.

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TBH, experience is really the best thing. All this advice won't help you when you have a fraction of a second to make a decision, only thing is your past experience in such a situation. I've had a buncha moments where I've lost control when I started skiing and now I no longer have them...

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The problem with telling Megamum to 'turn' is that if her weight is too far back, she wont turn effectively and simply go carreering off in an alternative direction - I remember that fear well.

Firstly that sensation of being too far back is a good thing, in the sense that at least you realise that you should be further forward Wink

But how to get forward again?
Everyone has struggled at some point trying to get forward - but stop right there! Don't keep trying to get forward, get down! Cool

The solution in that situation is to bend the knees more, go for a crouch (not a sit): the lower you get to a crouch, the easier it will be to get your weight back on your toes again. In fact, go for the crouch and the weight will go onto the toes without any effort at all.

Try it now, stand upright with your hands stretched out in front of U. Lean back until you're balanced on your heals, until you're only just managing not to fall backwards. Try to just lean forward. It's clearly not going to happen too easily is it? And this is [probably] what you're trying to do to recover when you realise you're too far back on your skis.
Now, from the same position, start to crouch and as soon as you start bending your knees a little, your weight rolls straight back onto the balls of your feet - ta-dah!

The other thing to remember is that when it's all pear shaped, the lower you crouch, the less distance you have to fall to the ground - most reassuring Wink

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Megamum, two points.

"Prevention is better than cure", so when you come to a ridge/roller you can't see over, slow down before you get there, to the extent that you can stop immedately as you look over the top if you don't like what you see.

"Falling over slowly is better than falling over fast" - so don't discount the well executed deliberate bail out! With enough practice you may even be able to recover and get back up quickly enough to disguise it as extreme carving Laughing

.

Admin's technique sounds pretty good too - I do it on occasion myself, although I've (surprisingly Wink

) never analysed it in that detail.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

When out of control you have the perfect excuse to do the Worm Turn Toofy Grin

http://youtube.com/v/-UglrXO3GNk

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If you think you're seriously out of control, just digging in and falling can be a good strategy. It'll almost certainly be better than the uncontrolled fall/crash at even higher speed which may happen.

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Something I tried when I was starting out. To prepare yourself for the odd bit of extra speed try to find one of those short steep sections with a big lovely flat runout below. Maybe go slowly diagonally most of the way down and then point your skis downhill and just go for it. You will be able to slow down on the flat easily and it should let you gradually get used to picking up speed in a safe and controlled environment. You will see a lot of skiers getting up quite some speed so that they can bypass the flat without resorting to poling, so next time you find one try the same but from a little higher. The confidence this develops reduces the fear of speed and so makes finding yourself sitting back more unlikely. Remember... start gently, no scaring yourself.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Surely if you never scare yourself, you'll never get over the fear and improve?

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I used to tell myself (out loud, sometimes) "Get down, hands out in front". It often worked, too. I do find myself bailing out deliberately on the snowboard, sometimes, though not as often as I used to! I am much less fearful of injuring myself falling on the board than I am of falling on skis. Just as well, given the frequency of the occurrence. But I can definitely relate to that feeling of heading down the hill at a slightly faster speed than I feel confident to turn at - that "it'll all end in tears" feeling isn't fun. Just gotta get more practice in, I suppose.

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Timmaah, True, but fear without a decent level of coping skills can also be counter-productive. Then again, I now fully enjoy scaring myself on the snow rolling eyes

After all it is free

Megamum, lots of advice here, but all (I suspect) from good skiers, and all quite useless to you.
Fear stuns the brain and rational thought is impossible

A search for the Stop word reveals it has only been mentioned twice so far:
admin: "Everyone has struggled at some point trying to get forward - but stop right there! Don't keep trying to get forward, get down!"
GrahamN: "when you come to a ridge/roller you can't see over, slow down before you get there, to the extent that you can stop immedately as you look over the top if you don't like what you see"
Excellent advice, but not much help to you.
The scenario of "find yourself on a steeper section where you are going faster than you want to and are in danger of a plummet down the fall line" happnens to us all, however good. The correct response is Stop. And how do you do that? Frosty the Snowman expertly summed up the manoeuvre: "turn uphill"
He just spelt Stop wrong ("t" and "p", not "l" and "w") snowHead

Admin's advice on getting down makes a lot of sense, but Jonpim, you actually seem to understand the psyche of where I'm at with this. Fear does stun the brain and rational thought is often impossible - Yes!!

I guess I could slow down/stop above a ridge/roller (I like the technical term, but you all seemed to know what I was on about anyway Toofy Grin

), of course I'd do this when at the side of the piste, but would this still be hazardous to other skiers? Also, if I'm halfway down the slope I've still got to tackle the steeper slope to get down - this is part of the reason why I'm apprehensive of unfamiliar slopes. The turning on the steeper slopes, even to stop or slow down also seems more fraught with danger as if I c**k it up I'm heading down the fall line again - for a lot of reasons I hope these new skis turn easily - the reviews I've read suggest that they do which was one reason I bought them. Sorry this is a list of random thoughts rather than a grammatically correct treatise. Laughing

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Megamum, you typically get a gaggle of people stopped before a steeper section, surveying their options for the route down and perhaps girding their loins. It would be better at the side of the piste, but it's not too much of a problem in the middle. What would be more of a problem is stopping or falling just underneath the lip, in the middle of the piste.

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Megamum, do you mean to say that you do not have a bulletproof braking wedge reflex yet?

laundryman forgets the snowboarders sitting in the snow over the crest.

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comprex, It's odd, but the more I learn to bring the skis together in the turns the less natural it seems to snowplough - I now have to think about doing it to do it at all - does that sound odd?

Megamum, you seem to suggest you are alone.
So,
Lesson 1: never ski alone.
Stuck on a steep scary section all by your little self is horrible
Stuck on that steep scary section with some mates is still not nice, but is bearable
Lesson 2: always carry some chocolate. When the going gets tough its amazing what some Cadbury's can do for your morale.

Final bit of advice: take it one turn at a time.
Turn and stop. Take a deep breath. Have another chunk of chocolate. Go through the traditional hysterics at your mates of how they should never have taken you down this piste, how you're never going skiing with them again, how you're never going skiing again full stop . . .
And then do another turn.
And in no time you are down, looking back up, and thinking "that wasn't so bad - maybe I'll give it another try" snowHead

You know it makes sense.

Megamum, I submit to you that you're focused on the position of the skis, whether || or /\ or \/ and not on the feel of edging them.

The concept of the braking wedge is BOTH inside edges FULL ON, quite distinctive in feel from anything else and a very good security blanket tactic. Heck, you can practice it in lift mazes.

Again, worry not what the skis look like. Focus on that feeling of having both edges engaged as strongly as you can. That's your safe zone. Don't worry about anything else.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Megamum, I'm going to differ from comprex a bit here. The braking snowplough/wedge has its uses, but that's largely restricted to lift queues and v narrow tracks. As soon as it gets remotely steep (or even what you perceive as remotely steep) its as useful as a chocolate teapot; on the face of it quite comforting, but as soon as you start trying to use it it gets very messy indeed. If you've not come across it yet, now is the time to get friends with the sideslip. Useful on WAY more slopes than a snowplough.

Start off standing still on a moderate slope (i.e. not too gentle or it'll actually get rather difficult to do - as easy blue is about right), skis parallel, but directly across the slope, say with it falling away to your right. Your knees may be a little into the slope. Roll them very gently away from the hill, i.e. to your right, and the skis will start to slide sideways down the hill. If you're in the middle of your skis they will stay pointing directly across the slope, but if you're a bit far back the tails will grab more than the tips and the tips will start heading down first. So move a bit forward and they'll even up. (Edit: sorry, that bit's too simplistic - see below). Conversely if you're a bit too far forward. Once you've moved a few inches, say six inches to a foot, roll your knees gently back towards the hill (i.e. to your left) and hey presto (or rather 'lento') the skis stop moving. Practice this until you're happy and then allow the skis to slide a bit faster - by rolling your knees a bit further out from the slope. Once you're happy with this, move to a steeper slope. Once you've got this sussed you now have your lifetime "Get Out Of Jail Free" card. With a little more subtlety you can also slip forwards and backwards at will (you may have heard of people talking about a "falling leaf" exercise, well this is it) - which means you can get down gnarly narrow slopes without having to turn at all! You will use this on many, many occasions however staggeringly expert you get. The really good thing at your stage is that it will work on ANY pisted run - including the steepest black - so you need never worry about getting to somewhere you'll get stuck and not be able to get down; you just won't be doing it particularly fast. The only place it doesn't really work is on really heavy snow or breakable crust - but that's not something you'll have to worry about for several years yet.

A snowHead

A snowHead

GrahamN is absolutely right. If you NEED to get down some steep bits, side-slipping is the safetest way. And by the way, a solid side slip allows you to call yourself a "solid intermediate"! Wink

But if you miss noticing the ridge and going down the steep bits fast, then admin's advice is spot on. Personally, I found bring my hands forward is especially helpful.

While a breaking wedge doesn't solve the problem, it does slow you down just enoung that you could then try to turn uphill.

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Yoda, good point. And the other essential is commitment.
So often the turn fails and you fall because of chickening out half way round.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

GrahamN, I have only had one go at side slipping and it was a bit of a disaster as my skis just wanted to take me BACKWARDS, I found it quite disconcerting that I couldn't just slide downwards, the ski tails just wanted to lead and that I did NOT want! - from what you say that's because my weight's too far foward on the skis - does that mean I'm getting something right?? Shocked

It is something I want to have another go at went I get away next Feb as I can see it is a really useful safety net.

When I was in Tignes I was taken down a too steep bit, and was working so hard, one or two turns at a time to prevent any excess speed, that I ended up with stitch and visibly quivering leg muscles - the result of that was that when I tried to stand up off the chair lift back up to the funicular station the legs went on strike and I ended up making my acquaintance with the ground & the lift had to be stopped! Embarassed

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Megamum, If you are out of control then IMO the safest thing is to fall over. The exception to this is if you are on such a steep and hard slope that you will slide and not be able to stop. If you find yourself on such a slope you are pretty much stuffed anyway.

In the frozen skier case then a good sideslip will be valuable but doing frequent turns will lose the vertical much quicker. My own memory of those days when I used to find myself staring at the edge of the piste forced to do a turn is that I did much better when I kept turning and didn't allow myself to traverse.

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NewSkier, you've hit right on the point at which I was over-simplifying things rather too much there. When slipping sideways there are two effects that cause the skis to twist, and they require completely opposite corrections Sad

. What causes a twist is a difference in the position of the driving force (your weight) and the centre of resistance (the ski edges on the snow). I was concentrating there on the skiers weight pressuring the edges too much fore or aft, so say if you're hanging onto the edges behind you the tails grip the snow more than the tips, moving the centre of resistance backwards, and the tips drop. However, if you've got the pressure and grip relatively even fore-aft, having your weight backwards means that you're driving the skis down the hill from behind that centre of resistance and the tails will drop. So without seeing exactly what was happening, unfortunately I can't answer your question.

What is vital here though is self-awareness and -correction. Keep your ankles and knees soft, feel what the skis are doing and always make smooth movements. If you feel the tails dropping, try moving a little further back. If this makes it worse, then move further forward instead. As this is all going on quite slowly, you'll have plenty of time to make the corrections. When people start learning sideslipping, there will be a lot of correction going on, and you see skiers sort of scissoring down the slope, alternately tail- and tip-down. As you get more centred on your skis the corrections will become smaller, and it'll be more of a reflex action so you have to think about it much less (in writing this I'm desperately trying to think what I actually do, as it's all so automatic for me now - my 2nd week instuctor was insistent this was mastered before he even contemplated teaching any type of turn). However good you get though this feedback-correction remains vital, as you'll rarely be coming down a perfectly smooth slope and so the snow will always be grabbing the tips or tails more and so you are always making small corrections (analogy only NewSkier will understand - just like correcting for slight tower sway, you just do it without noticing Wink

).

Sorry if this sounds complicated - it's not as tough to do as it is to explain.

After all it is free

NewSkier, My instructor sticks a few minutes practising side slipping into most lessons. So far it hasn't clicked practically although I understand the theory and can see me doing it in my minds eye (just as I can see myself doing every else, but as I've said before my brain seems incapable of transmitting what it sees to my legs rolling eyes

), if it helps to show you are not alone, my side slip practice sessions usually culminate in me finally sitting down on the slope in fits of laughter Embarassed

ooohh...messy reading, not least because we have probably all been there.

I don't like the idea of you being all alone on a crowded blue as you will then not likely be able to turn when you feel you can turn..as opposed to the desired position of turning when you want to.

What you may end up doing is traversing the whole hill...which is good-ish speed-wise... but not really having the space to do that. Avoid the mad 4 o'clock runs at all times for this. And long traversers are targets for faster out of control skiers. If at all possible do the shortest turns you can and keep heading downhill. A good snowplough/wedge/stem at a very slow but controlled speed puts you advancing down the hill and not getting in too many others way....not that that should be your fault, but. So proceed with a tight as poss turn as slow as poss for as long as you legs can manage it. As you are travelling slowly others..who may not be in such control as you, can easily predict where you will end up so a stop somewhere safe ..at the brow of a stepper section should not be too much of a problem.

At this point have a breather, choose your line and commit again when you are ready. same as before.... slow tight turns, 100 mtrs, stop, repeat as...

If you can side-slip, employ as required...this is a brilliant technique which you will uses time and time again...and it will be required when you come to that crowded icy path which everyone is falling over on... edge, release check, edge, release check.... which amounts to holding the edge, flattening it enough so it will slide with you balanced on top of it, edge set again for the check/stop...

No advanced skier ever stops using this techique, IMO

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Megamum, the 'turn uphill' advice is sound but don't do what I did - I missed a long sweeping right-hand turn and in a Michael Crawford 'Some mothers do 'ave 'em' style I careered straight over the corner and ended up on a Canadian Blue run and this was only my 2nd day skiing ever Shocked

. Anyway, it was panic stations and brown salopettes time Embarassed

. I knew I had to turn, so with my beginners' technique, I threw everything into getting my skis across the slope and that included my shoulders. BIG mistake because I managed to not only get my skis across the slope but I managed to get them facing uphill! I actually had a second's pause to think, 'Great! I've stopped.' And then I started sliding backwards down the slope Laughing

. Cue more discolouration of the trews and a voice in my head shouting 'Reverse Snowplough!' Eventually, I stopped and had the pleasure of kicking off my skis and climbing 150 yards back up to the piste I was supposed to be on.

It was the most hilarious thing for everyone else in my group to see. Gits!

Edit: for spelling.

Help!!

What is the best thing to do if it all goes pear shaped?

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