 Poster: A snowHead
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I am stuck at the stage of trying to get my skis more parallel as I turn, instead of using a plough shape. I don't yet know what it feels like to get it right - I think I need to go through the stage of getting it right by experimentation/accident, thus allowing my body to find out what it feels like to hold the position AND keep my balance, before I will be able to start to replicate it consistently. The trouble is that the fear of falling and getting injured is holding me back!
Might a go on such a device help me over that stage by allowing me to experience the feeling/positioning without the fear - or is the feeling quite different on them? Would it be a waste of time/dosh or could it save both by getting me over the hurdle faster? (Both are a bit tight at the mo!)
The website is http://www.realli-ski.co.uk/
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 4-11-07 1:33; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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NewSkier - I've used realli-ski a fair amount and would recommend it. The great thing is that the instructor can say "that was a good turn" and you can relate immediately to the feedback - rather than "your second and third turns were good, but the latter ones weren't".
The only reason I don't use it
If you're "close" to parallel then it'll only take a session or two.
Very, very tiring though. Do not underestimate how tiring.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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NewSkier, I have to virually pass the Watford venue every week - tempted to give it a go
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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NewSkier, I teach at Radlett Realli-ski, on a Wednesday night thoughout the Winter.
Good points: Totally safe
Great if time is a scarce commodity, 30 mins is equivalent to 5 hours on a dry slope.
instruction can be given as you're skiing, rather than at the top or bottom of the hill.
Constant skiing for up to 30 mins.
Accellerated learning.
Bad points: Very tiring
No Centripetal forces
No variation in terrain.
Give it a go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do you have to wear pixie skis?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mosha Marc, Yep, 1m Snowblades
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Spyderman, is it one-to-one, as it looks on the website? I met a guy who was planning to work there but thought Radlett hadn't been open very long? I understand Pete Silver Gillespie has taken over the training from Mark Jones, so you've certainly had quality trainers involved. Might wonder down and have a look...
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slikedges, Pete is in charge of training. I attended a weekend session with him. It's one to one or group lesson with a max of 4.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman, its wednesday night when I'm nearby. what's Centripetal forces ?
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| NewSkier, I teach at Radlett Realli-ski, on a Wednesday night thoughout the Winter. |
That's a fair enough recommendation!
| Quote: |
Bad points:
Very tiring, No Centripetal forces .... |
If the learning's accelerated, the tiredness is worth it, and can't be worse than when I was in Tignes. I worked so hard coming down what seemed a vertical descent to me, that I got stitch and my leg muscles were visibly quivering so badly I had to stop and rest part way down. On making it down to the bottom of the (not really very long  ) slope, my leg muscles just gave up, to the point that I wasn't able to stand up to get off the bloomin chairlift back up to the funicular station!! 
As I would have to travel a long way, do you think I'd cope with 2 lessons in one day? Would separating them a bit, say morning and afternoon, work? Would that be expedient use of a one-off trip, or do you think one lesson would be worthwhile on its own?
Does the lack of centripetal force make that much difference to the feel at my level, ie at slower speed?
I am not sure I totally understand centripetal force, to be honest. Am I right in that the centripetal force is what's exerted by the skier leaning into the centre of an arc described by a turn to compensate for the centrifugal force which is trying to throw you outwards and would make you ski off at a tangent to the curve (like I tend to when I don't hold a turn cos the slope's steep enough to make me 'freeze'!)? That seems to make sense physics-wise, yet I have been told the reason I can't always hold turns is that I am leaning into the hill and shouldn't be. Am I actually looking for a combination of enough pressure on the downhill (outside) ski together with enough lean to compensate for any centrifugal force, and that this probably wouldn't become an issue until travelling a bit faster than my preferred snail's pace?
PS - you say it's 1m snowblades - does that feel radically different to normal length skis? Would I bring my own boots?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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holidayloverxx, NewSkier,
Centripetal force is the force that pulls you to the outside of the turn, like a Centrefuge. The forces build up under your feet and help to bend the skis, making them turn more. As on the Realli-Ski simulator, you don't move but the slope moves under you, they're are no forces pulling you to the outside of the turn. It isn't noticable at low speeds, but feels a bit odd at higher speeds.
The sessions are half hour, so 2 in a day is OK. The centre is situated within a farm shopping complex, with a good range of shops to look around, plus Radlett and Watford are close also.
Bring your own Boots, but not skis if you have them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Spyderman, Is it not centrifugal force that pulls you to the outside and centripetal the force used to resist the pull of the centrifuge. IE; balancing and controlling the forces through the edging of the ski and dynamic body management.
I haven't experienced one of these machines but I can see how they can be off benefit. The skier balancing over the feet through use of ankles and knees.
On snow when the above mentioned forces and that of gravity are more in play, I expect, if required, the hips would come naturally to the inside of the turn thereby assisting in the balancing of the forces.
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Thanks - when I have a spare day & the dosh I will get a visit fixed up!
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You know it makes sense.
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As I pass by there occasionally, I'm certainly curious enough to give it a go, but I must say I don't hold out a lot of hope that it's up to much as, well, the website is conspicuous for its scarcity of endorsements from skiing pros. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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slikedges, It's certainly not the be all and end all, but it has it's good points.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Spyderman, safe, fair 'nuff, constant practise for 30 min, but practising what exactly? Is it directly translatable to snow? Accelerated learning: having done 3x30minutes would you be able to do early plough parallels on snow immediately? Would you even be able to do developing plough turns consistently? Surely it encourages skidding everywhere. I asked if you could traverse and was assured you could - on a 1.5m width rolling carpet? I think that's called a sideslip, isn't it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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slikedges, Honest answer is I don't know. I've never as yet seen anyone who was taught on the Sim and then went to snow. So I don't have any feedback on how it transfers to snow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spyderman, Snowshark, a body continues in uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by a force (Newton's first law of motion). A centripetal force is required for a body to stop moving in a straight line and instead to describe an arc. In a carved turn, that is provided by the reaction, at the ski/snow interface, to the skier's weight: of which the necessary lateral component is provided by inclining the skis on their edges.
Centrifugal force doesn't really exist; it is nothing more than the natural tendency to continue moving in a straight line in the absence of forces.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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laundryman, Thanks, I never was any good at Physics, but hopefully I got the idea across as to what was lacking.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Spyderman, You did, indeed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm going tonight, try out new boots and try and get ski legs before PSB
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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holidayloverxx, Good Luck, Hope you enjoy it.
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blytht, What about all those free lessons you had last January? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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laundryman, Spyderman, probably the clearest description of centrifugal and centripetal force I've seen was given by Physicsman on an Epic thread pointed to by Martin Bell (in the middle of that pressure/force argument). The first two sentences of laundryman's reply are fine, but I'm not at all sure I agree with the last two. The centripetal force is that lateral force exerted on the skier/skis by the snow - and increases with the skiers mass (to be picky), speed and tightness of turn. It's not exerted directly in reaction to the skiers weight - it would be exactly the same in a weightless environment as on the Earth - and doesn't reduce or increase in any way per se the amount of force applied vertically (which is due to the skier's weight). Centrifugal force does exist, and is the lateral force that the skis exert on the snow, exactly matching and opposite to the centripetal force (appearing at the same Batplace, same Battime - Newton's third law).
While you guys may be beyond it (until the grandkids come along), another case comes in when you're spinning your kids around hanging from your arms and getting everyone very dizzy. Centripetal force is what you exert on your kid to stop them flying off into the wide blue yonder, and centrifugal is what your kid's exerting on you.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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holidayloverxx, How did you get on last night then?
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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holidayloverxx, Sorry to hear you Boots are hurting, maybe try again when they're sorted. You certainly don't need to be wearing many clothes or you'll melt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone have a link to a video (youtube etc) where you can see it working. There may be something on their website and I just can't see it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Spyderman, I probably will give it another go when the boots are bedded in. I think now that I know how it works I will be able to work with the machine rather than against it, which is what I was really doing.
I was wearing t shirt and jogging pants - maybe I need to wear shorts
for the benefit of other readers - Spyderman wasn't the instructor.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Spyderman, It was Wednesday! 7.00pm.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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holidayloverxx, holidayloverxx,Sorry, Doh!! I'm there from next Wednesday, excluding the 24th, when there's something happening in Tignes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Spyderman, maybe another time then 
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holidayloverxx, Hi, I have just finished my lesson, and they have let me use the web here. What can I say it was excellent and I would recommend this to anyone, the great thing is the instructor telling you all the time, definitely installs confidence, to get from unconfident parallel, to then suddenly, as discussed on the other thread the "A-Ha" moment. Knowing that the ankle flex to the knee movement then on to the hip is something I would never attempt on snow, but having the bar in front of you, allows that you to make mistakes without wiping out big time.
A thumbs up from me. 
If you put the postcode in a TomTom Satnav it found it OK.
PS. Let see if we can get them to give Snowheads a discount 
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blytht, still want to stick with the dry slope next week, but maybe give realliski a blast before your next trip?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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blytht, glad you enjoyed it. who was your instructor?
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Spyderman, I had a go on a similar device to this at Hillingdon, years ago. The benefits were exactly as you describe, but there were huge problems with heat build up - so the ski would grab, and BANG, over you'd go ! Has that been fixed, if so, how ?
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FAQ
