Italy -> Switzerland via Simplon

brian

Anyone driven this route, particularly in the depths of winter ?

It's theoretically open year round, just wondering how true that is in practice as it looks like it goes pretty high. Any experiences of using the alternative car-on-train through tunnel ? ... and how long should it take to get from Malpensa airport to Brig, leaving 7pm-ish on a Thursday or Friday night ?

A snowHead

This post is probably irrelevant but have done the train journey from Milan to Montreux but no car. It took about 3½ hours IIRC. My geography is crap as is my memory so I can't remember if Simplon was on the route. Whatever, I totally recommend going by train otherwise you won't get to enjoy the incredible scenery as much. Hopefully, someone else more suitably experienced can properly advise you on your post.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Normally if a mountain pass is declared open all year round the authority will undertake to clear the snow to ensure this is the case. This is pretty standard in the Alpes.

However the snow may hit the pass suddenly and during a prolonged storm the authority may be unable to have a pass cleared at the time you want to use it. The snow clearing machines need time to travel through the pass a few rounds, if the weather permits their operatings.

The deal is there is always a sign (or signs) on the motorway or the main road that displays information on whether the pass is open or not. I expect you should see something after passing Brig. If you need the prior information check it out in the Internet and hope the weather does change by the time you hit the pass.

The Simplon is a well kept route and the Swiss is the most rigorous in maintaining their roads.

Not done Simplon in Winter myself but in regularly in summer. In Winter Simplon is the only main route to Italy for the Valley so I expect it would cleared with vigour.

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brian, here's a link for Swiss trains should you need a timetable: http://www.sbb.ch/en/index.htm.

Hurrah, my memory doesn't suck as badly as I thought - 3½ hours and Simplon is one of the stops. Kerpow Alzheimer's.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

saikee,

"In Winter Simplon is the only main route to Italy for the Valley so I expect it would cleared with vigour."

How about Le Grand St Bernard tunnel? I don't know where Brians' going, but it's got to be worth considering.

brian

thewahwah, train would be too late for the last bus up the valley.

Steve Sparks, it's to get to the Anniviers. Easyjet have Edinburgh - Milan flights now and the prices for winter weekends are cheap as chips compared to their GVA flights. Just wondering if it's a viable option.

viamichelin's route goes via Simplon, 207 km. via G St-Bernard is 357 km, I reckon that's a bit far.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

brian our neighbours in our place up the valley from Visp often drive from Milan over the Simplon. I gather the drive is a bit bleak and they have been caught out once by the weather in the last couple of years, but they seem to prefer Milan to Geneva. Personally, I prefer Geneva, using the train and bus to travel to the resort, and think they are potentially foolhardy to drive in the middle of winter, but I really don't have the evidence to discourage the drive.

After all it is free

brian, I've only done it twice. Once in winter .. petrified , it really is slow as overtaking lorries ( and there were lots of them) is a nightmare. Did it again this summer (May? / June?) ('cos I was in Sierre and wanted to go to Lugano via Linate) .... absolutely beautiful scenery but still not fast ( oh ..and it snowed!) .

I suspect it may be quicker via Grand St Bernard -- (I think in summer it took me 4 - 4 1/2 hrs to Linate) .. depends which Milan airport you're going to/from. Malpensa OK ... Linate ..hell. You may even be looking at as much as 5-6 hours for your chosen destination in winter Shocked

brian

Agenterre, It's Malpensa.

Found some stuff about the car-train, looks quite handy, it's only £8.

http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/fr/reisemarkt/zuege/autoverlad.htm

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brian, Needless to say I didn't take the tunnel ..... I reckon to Brig is about an hour from you ?? and getting from Iselle to the airport would be about the same , maybe a tad more... the Italian bit is a very, very easy drive (to Malpensa) ...

brian

Agenterre, yes an hour to Brig is about right. So you reckon I'd get a clear run out of Malpensa of an evening ? Sounds quite doable then.

snow reports

brian, Yes .. you will be going with the traffic , but the location is ideal ( as airports go) to access the main road to Simplon; obiously no 'done it' experience on a Friday night , but after first 10 miles ( turin-bound and Genoa traffic) all you should be working with/against is 'Lake Maggiore' ( sp) traffic and then Swiss bound stuff ... presumably not too many trucks on a weekend???

Not sure if you've driven to Brig , but that is is a single lane road iirc .. not the best and a few villages to go through.

I think you know where the most difficult part of the drive may be Toofy Grin

brian

Agenterre, yes, I've been along to Brig, you do rc, the autoroute ends at Sierre. The difficult part isn't so bad at night, you can't see the drop down into the gorge. Laughing

You know it makes sense.

brian, one thing to be aware of, is that car hire at Malpensa is in a different terminal to the one used by Easyjet. You need to take a bus between the two terminals.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Steve Sparks ,

If you go by Grand St Bernard pass you would be at the begining of the Valais Valley. Simplon is at the far end of the Valley where there are only two ways out, one by Simplon to Domodossola and the other by a minor road to Gletsch, if you discounting the car tunnel of Lotschberg what takes you back to Interlaken/Thun. The road to Gletsch is closed for the Winter as it is a motorbike country in summer with Nufenen Pass, Grimsel Pass, Susten Pass, Furka Pass, St Gotthard Pass and Oberalp Pass concentrated like a figure "8".

If one is in a position to start at Martigy, which is at the front end of the Valais Valley one must pass through for going via the Grand St. Bernard Pass, then one can also go to Italy via the Mont Blanc Tunnel which is at a lower altitude and motorway all the way. Although to get the the Mont Blanc tunnel one has to cross the Col de Forclaz which is nowhere as easy as the simplon Pass but that would be the route I would use for Milan. I used to run a static caravan in Chamonix for 8 years and not once Col de Forclaz was closed. It has exactly 10 hairpin bends. The sign tell you if the Grand St Bernard or Mont Blanc route closed or not is displayed on the motorway before you turn into Martigny Expo and again before the junction going via France or Italy.

The Grand St Bernard is passable because the top section can be avoided via a tunnel.

A snowHead

saikee, thanks for all that, but my point was that Simplon is not the only main link between Italy and the Valais in the winter.

A snowHead

brian, we drove the Pass this summer, not too bad as mountain passes go on the Swiss side, they are doing a lot of improvement as well , one of the big bridges was down to one lane for maintenance.

The big Problem for me is the roads on the Italian side, I am afraid the national caracatures are very accurate here. It is as if someone had flicked a switch as you cross the border.Efficient well maintained to rusty narrow and chipped concrete in a couple of seconds. In all from Sion it took us 3.5 to 4 hours to get to Milan. Fortunatley you are most of the way down the mountain by the time you get to the Italian side but the roads to Milan are still far from perfect. As some one who would not bat an eylid doing 140-150ks on the French autoroute, I was very reluctant to go above 110 on the Auto strada even with a limit of 130.

One of the options we are looking at this winter is to fly to Milan, get the train to Sion and then hire the car in Sion. I had great ideas of driving up from Rome but the Autostarda between Rome and Florence is an absoloute nightmare.

EDIT you already found the tunnel Embarassed

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I can sleep in car in European roads and wake up to look at the rust in the armco at the centre of the motorway to determine that I am now in Italy.

The Col de Forclaz I mentioned in a previous post between SWitzerland and France also show the national characters well. Many times in Winter the road surface was black everywhere on the Swiss side and almost all white everywhere on the French side. It is the same road and I am avoiding the topic of the quality of the road surface too.

If one drive from Geneva the fastest route would be via the Mont Blanc tunnel route.

For driving from Lausanne or Montreux I would still recommend the French route via Martigny, Col de Forclaz (about 27 miles single carriageway to Chamonix/Mont Blan Tunnel and all motoway for the rest).

The Simplon route is logical if one come down from Bern and Thun and wait for the Car-on-train tunnel at Kandesteg.

From experience overall the Mont Blanc route should be the fastest. Just watch out for the sign that declares the opening condition of the Simplon, Grand St Bernard and Col de Forclaz on the motorway when you are near the Martigny Expo junction. A snow chain is mandatory on these routes and can give the Swiss policeman to refuse passage at the entry point which would be manned only after a serious snow and the road has been not cleared.

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Having worked in the Soccorso (Italian Mountain Rescue) as a paramedic over an 18 year period, I got to know this route rather well. Based on almost 20 years experience of driving to and from Italy I would always use the Grand St Bernard route. Although the Simplon route is mainly Motorway, unless you are traveling east of Turin, the Grnd St Bernard is just as quick and has the advantage of fewer road tolls.
I use the route through France, turning south of Lille as far as Namur, then through Luxembourg to Basle, ending up at Martigny and the Grnd St Bernard. Apart from the tunnel toll and the Swiss Vignett, there are no tolls until you get to the A5 in Italy.
The only time I could not use this route was when 1 meter of snow (39 inches in real money) fell overnight. It took four hours to clear SS27 the pass road through Entrobles and St Rhemy.
I can usually get from Tunnel to Tunnel in 12 hours without speeding, and I stop for food and a cup (or three) of coffee en route.

As far as snow chains are concerned, I have pulled a large number of drivers (and passengers) out of vehicles that have taken the off road shortcut down the mountainside. Italian 'townies' are the worst for this because they all think they can drive in snow without chains on their tyres. This is not always the case. Both Swiss and Italian police can stop you from using roads designated as "mountain roads" if you are not carrying snowchains. The Carabinieri are worse than the Swiss police for this.

I shall be driving this route just before Christmas, again late January and yet again mid March. I could post traffic and road conditions here if it would be of use to anyone.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Garry A, Welcome to snowHead

, .. your experience will be much appreciated here ( and you are possibly a 'First').... Im glad you've 'killed' the via - 'Mont Blanc' proposition , I was struggling ... however Brian is travelling from Milan to somewhere in Val d'Anniviers I suspect. Which route would you suggest?

What does your job entail? Love to see a seperate thread ( don't be shy !!)

You'll need to Register first of course.

Don't know Simplon but the road through Aosta is still 'Italian' even though they have spent a fortunes...and ages... upgrading it.

I've travelled down to Alagne from the GSB, and various bits in between, which is probably the worst part of the route...and wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to repeat it. It is a long time since I was in Milan but would think the roads around there would be ok albeit manic..!!!

I'd go with Garry A who seems to have the most update and in-depth knowledge and once you get to Martigny, you are home and dry.

brian

Garry A, welcome to snowHead

s.

I'm travelling next Thursday from Malpensa airport to the Val d'Anniviers, above Sierre in the Rhone valley. The plan is to head towards Simplon and either get on the car train or keep going over the pass if the weather's ok and we're significantly early or late for the train. Flight lands at 6, getting car hire from Europcar (the only company who do have a pickup at Malpensa T2), with snow chains but they don't seem to have an option for winter tyres Confused

Unless you think we need plan B ? Grand St Bernard is an extra 100km or so.

After all it is free

The quickest would be from Milan Malpensa, take the exit towards Gallarate and the A8/26. Head northwest on the A8 taking the left hand fork at the junct of the A8/26 to the junct with the A4 (24 to 25 miles if I remember correctly). At this point head away from Novara toward Turin. When you reach the junct with the A4/5, turn towards Ivrea. On reaching the junct with the A5, follow the signs for Aosta. Just past Brissongne take the off ramp that leads through the tunnel under Aosta following signs for Grnd St Bernard. Follow the signs onto the SS27 through the villages of Entrouble and St Rhemy. Through the tunnel and on to Martigny on the Vallais (Swiss) side. When you get to the A9 turn right and once past Sion you are virtually there.
PS - I shall be doing the same route a week later, but in the opposite direction.

I did say this is the quickest route, Other ways are shorter. You could head south from Malpensa, but it is a pig of a road through the Parco Ticino and Parco Lombardia, and if you don't know your way you can easily get lost round Galliate finding your way onto the A4 motorway. This way is shorter but not to be recommended after dark. Very easy to get lost even in daylight.

From the UK to this area however, I would still recommend the route via Lille, Namur, Luxembourg to Basle. From there through Fribourg to Vevey just above Montreaux where you turn towards Martigney. The area you are traveling to is about 20 to 30 miles after Martigney. Should take you about 12 hours from Calais including a stop for food and several stops for snacks and coffee.
As to fuel cost, two weeks ago the price of diesel in Luxembourg was just over 0·90 euros (65 pence). This was a big saving in fuel costs because even at French supermarkets the price is now over 1·11 euros a litre.

There were no major roadworks anywhere on the route, although there were some minor roadworks on the border between France and Luxembourg near Kahler but these did not cause any delays.

As to what I did before I retired, I was a Paramedic and Cardiac Technician. Being a reasonable skier (gold medals to prove it) I got "volunteered" and ended up working alongside the Alpini in both Peidmonte and Aosta every winter for 18 years. I retired five years ago. I have driven ambulances both in the UK and Italy and was part of a helicopter rescue team for two years in Italy.

Having posted the previous message, I am assuming that you are in fact going to Val d’Anniviers near Sierre, on the banks of the Rhône, Valais, Switzerland near the foot of la Couronne Impériale.

If not, then please ignore previous.

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Garry A, Yes ..but 'Martigny' is your first 'foot-fall' ... given that [b[Brian[/b] is going to Sierre ( and then South) ... I still would have thought Simplon quicker ... and to quote your original .. 'Malpensa is East of Turin' ?.

Interested as I do the ganeral route often but 'rarely' have used Simplon going North from Genoa ( a red herring given Brian's question).

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Sorry, I am a bit hampered by not knowing the final destination.
I have not used the Simplon route since you were forced to use the rail ferry from Airolo. (Giving away my age there)

snow reports

If the final destination is Brig in Canton Valais, then don't forget that the Simplon route after you leave Ornavasso is single track through mountainous country. The forecast for the Mount Leone region is for up to 50 cm of snow this coming weekend and Brian would have to go through it using the SS33 route through the Simplon. Even though there are now a number of tunnels after you get past Gondo at the Swiss border, it is still a pig of a road and you could get turned back by the traffic police at any point.
The road through Domondossola and the Simplon is by far the shortest, but not necessarily the quickest.

brian

Garry A, yes, you're right about the destination. Thanks very much, just translating your advice to the map.

I take it when you say the Simplon route is "single track" you mean single carriageway but a lane in either direction ? I quite like the sound of the "autoverlad" through the Simplon tunnel but if we're delayed and setting off late then Grand St Bernard does sound considerably easier/more reliable.

You know it makes sense.

If you want to take the tunnel option, the last train leaves at just after 10 pm. Loading takes about the same time as for the Chanel Tunnel (30 to 40 minutes) so make sure you get there in time. If you miss the last train there are no more until 6 AM the following morning. Fare for a car was CHF 19.– 13 euro for a single fare. the last time I checked. I have been unable to use this system for a few years because of the hight restrictions, I presently have a vehicle too high for the roofed-in transporter carriages.

The road is mainly dual carriageway (one and sometimes two lanes per side) especially on the long straight bits, but very winding in places after Domodossola and Preglia, lots of hairpins with a central crash barrier for most of the way after Ornavasso, (but with plenty of passing places all along the route). In some places this widens out to three and four lanes. When a three lane highway, the center lane carries traffic in both directions. Interesting at times. Not to be recommended after dark, if wet or icy, or all three. It can easily take three or even more hours to get from Domodossola to the valley on the Swiss side.

Hope this helps.

brian

So this turned out to be fine. We intended to catch the car-train but managed to miss the entrance in the dark on the Italian side (we saw it on the way back but didn't see any signs ?). The pass was clear and the road was fine, it's remarkably untwisty for such a high mountain road. We were lucky not to get caught up in much traffic in either direction. Journey time between Malpensa and the Anniviers was 3 hours in both directions.

... and anybody using easyjet to Malpensa might be interested to know that Europcar and Avis both have pick ups at Terminal 2, other car hire companies you have to bus round to T1.

A snowHead

brian, Wow ... so no longer than in summer .. and it is cold. So a very real option ..

I thought it said Simplon pass was shut last Friday which proves nowt about Swiss autoroute signeage....

Help!!

Italy -> Switzerland via Simplon

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