 Poster: A snowHead
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Finally got round to looking at some of HH's stuff.
From http://harbskisystems.com.au/home.html
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| Are you aware that ski boots come in three alignment styles. |
No, I am not. Is anyone else? 
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| Lateral boots transmit your edging efforts directly to the skis and suit knocked kneed and aligned skiers. Rotary boots generally transmit twisting to the skis at the same time as you try to edge and suit bowlegged skiers. Neutral boots suit aligned skiers. |
HH's modus operandi seems to be work out your alignment, fix your alignment/boot problems, unteach no longer necessary compensatory movements, teach effective skiing. Sounds reasonable to me.
But a question I've got: Will correcting alignment at the boot affect how your legs are held on a soft or uneven surface, or when it's on an edge? I mean if a foot is positioned within a boot so it is in the naturally inverted or supinated position it prefers but the boot is positioned the same way on the lower leg, this won't per se have much effect on leg position, will it? The edge angle would be a little different as the boot wouldn't be in quite the same position on the leg as the medial shim would allow it to be positioned in a relaxed manner now, rather than slightly pushing on the lateral edge of the sole.
It's if on a flat hard surface, as the bases of the skis are forced to become horizontal, that I'd expect a bigger effect. Without the shims I'd expect a knock-kneed position, and with the shims I'd expect a more parallel position of the knees, shins etc. It's the flat hard surface that allows the alignment to really correct isn't it? Most of the time whilst turning on a ski, are we on such a flat hard surface? I don't think we are.
So maybe it's more a question of training muscles and movements than using boot alignment. Maybe what Warren Smith works on (amongst other things), the lazy inside leg and thigh steering (AIUI), is the better concept? Have I not thought this through properly?
Edited as thoughts developed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
So maybe it's more a question of training muscles and movements than using boot alignment. Maybe what Warren Smith works on (amongst other things), the lazy inside leg and thigh steering (AIUI), is the better concept? Have I not thought this through properly?
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I agree. Proper boot alignment is important (and something Warren will always stress to people) but if you don't use the muscles correctly to hold your alignment during a turn then things go wrong. Despite good neutral boot alignment, I did have the habit of dropping my inside knee on my turn to the left until it was beaten out of me by Warren who stressed the importance of using thigh steering with both legs and keeping the muscles working instead of letting the inside leg relax and become 'lazy'. It's made a massive difference to my skiing in moguls and powder as I'm much more two footed and balanced.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Let me try again.
Some skiers have a knock-kneed skiing stance due to the natural movement of their knees inwards towards each other when their legs are flexed. Am I correct in thinking that though they could pull their knees apart a bit with conscious effort, if medial shims are put in their boots then if on a flat hard surface their natural stance won't be so knock kneed? What would then happen on an uneven soft surface or during a turn (with ski on edge)? Would they revert to a knock-kneed leg position? After all, the shims only worked because they caused the feet to be layed on a flat surface in a different attitude and it was only then that this translated upwards to a different leg position.
Does then the answer for these skiers lie in either training the legs (“lazy inside leg”, “thigh steering exercises”) or just maybe in repositioning the bindings. If the bindings are positioned so the toe-piece is a little to the outside edge and the heel-piece a little to the inside edge, so each foot is in a little valgus (skier's duck?  ), the slight external rotation of the femur allows the knees to flex without moving inwards towards each other.
Am I talking rubbish?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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slikedges, If shims are inside the boots then you put them on the lateral sides to correct a knock-kneed stance.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another convert to the Harbinacious One!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rjs wrote: |
| slikedges, If shims are inside the boots then you put them on the lateral sides to correct a knock-kneed stance. |
eh.... if you put a shim under the lateral side of the foot it will pronate the foot which will internally rotate the tibia, which in MOST cases will cause the knee to go further over
there are a lot of outcomes which could happen when you assess someone, this is the reason we use the cant co wands which are rocker bottomed and a digital level just for starters
below the terms TSO TSI means thick side of cant Out or In
knees ok boot sole ok ...leave alone life is great round here
knees ok boots sole out... TSI to level foot , no movement of the knee, effect filling
knees ok boot sole in... TSO to level foot no movement of knee, effect filling
knees in boots in... TSI levels foot moves knee out, effect canting
knees out boot out...TSI / TSO levels foot no movement of the knee, cantable ot fillable either may work but depends on the person
knees in boots ok... TSI / TSO as above
knees out boots ok...TSO will move the foot and knee inwards, effect canting
knees in boots out... TSI levels foot and moves knee out, effect filling
knees out boots in.... TSO will level the foot and move the knees in, the effect is filling
we can also check the effectiveness of a footbed and the cuff adjustment using the wands as well
there is no simple answer, everybody is different and the solutions are as idividual as the person. the use of core stability training and strengthening of specific muscle groups such as the ABductors will have an effect on the position of the knee and how it tracks, if it currently drops in then building the gluteal muscle and the abductors will help to bring it out and back into line, as to how much, again this depends on joint flexibilty and the persons comitment to doing the training
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| CEM wrote: |
| rjs wrote: |
| slikedges, If shims are inside the boots then you put them on the lateral sides to correct a knock-kneed stance. |
eh.... if you put a shim under the lateral side of the foot it will pronate the foot which will internally rotate the tibia, which in MOST cases will cause the knee to go further over. |
I must be unusual then.
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rjs, it can work but only in certain circumstances as above
knees out boot out...TSI / TSO levels foot no movement of the knee, cantable ot fillable either may work but depends on the person
knees in boots ok... TSI / TSO as above
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There are two schools of thought in alignment, correct the human, or correct the equipment, in both cases, to get a flat ski.
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veeeight, or as CEM suggested above ... sometimes both.... (my podiatrist did/does this).... and I have work to do with my physiotherapist when I return home...
as CEM said it is not always simple...
That said I spent quite a bit of time where my instructor was pretty sure I had alignment issues but that my technique issues were providing more of a problem.... So although he sent me for some check-ups we did not consider sorting them too crucial... now I'm reaching the point where those same issues are creating problems I am starting to need to solve for further progress... (Ok complex problem and complex solutions so I'll start soon on the next steps)
I know at least one examiner who has quite large alignment issues - but did nothing about them until quite established as a skier - because he felt that his technique was more of a hindrance than his alignment was...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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FAQ
I think I'll have to pay you a visit one day and get some of it explained...BTW sorry for the late reply, but have been busy lately and actually only coming up for air this weekend before it's down periscope again. 
