English ASSI V Scottish ASSI

A snowHead

I have recently been told by an employer of ski instructors (artificial slope) that they (the business) regard the instructors holding the ASSI as delivered by SS Scotland to be more desirable than the ASSI delivered by SS England? I had been told that the SSE one was a higher level. Anyway, when I mentioned this, the employer told me that the SSE ASSI was so varied in level that it was inconsistent. Also, the centre uses the model of the central theme (a BASI thing) and SS Scotland ASSIs had been trained in this. He felt that if employing an SSE ASSI he would have to invest time in "re training". Any thought on this?

A snowHead

I can only speak for the Hemel slope. We haven't ran a SSE ASSI course for about 5 years, so all of our newer qualified Instructors are qualified under the SSS ASSI system, which happens to be delivered in our case by a BASI Trainer, so the Central Theme is very strong. Most of the SSE ASSI's that still teach at Hemel have been qualified for years and are very set in their ways. They don't consider the SSS level to be as good as theirs, most of them do not attend our Summer Instructor training program, they just crawl out of the woodwork, come the winter season and deliver some outdated rubbish.
Unfortunately financial pressures force the slope to employ them come peak times, which is why Hemel are so active in it's training program, so we don't have to rely on Instructors who are not prepared to keep up to date with their methods.
SSS has now been dropped by Hemel in favour of BASI L1

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Spyderman, do you think when Hemel re-opens after the rebuild that it will still be looking for new instructors, or will the opportunity to teach on snow make it easy enough to recruit?

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rob@rar, For sure, the training program will be critical. The demand from snow qualified Instructors who want to work there in the off season will be high, but come the winter they're off to the mountains. Some people go through the training with the intention of doing seasons, so they're trained and then disappear, which is fine. You get natural wastage, people retire, move away, die.
The intention is to raise the standard at Hemel, so we're not reliant on lower quality Instructors, so if you're good, up to date and prepared to improve they'll want you, if you don't, you'll be out.
A lot of potential Instructors are put off by plastic, but come the real stuff, I think demand for the Instructor training will be high. A serious wake up call for the people who don't put the effort in.

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rob@rar, Don't worry, your place is booked wink

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elbrus, To comment on your original thought of SSE being a higher standard. I think the standard of skiing required to pass a SSE ASSI is probably higher than an SSS one, in that the SSE assesment is a 1 day strictly pass/fail affair, whereas the SSS and BASI L1 are 5 day with constant assesment, so there is an opportunity and expectation of improvement throughout the course, as against turning up for a SSE one, having a bad day, not skiing to your potential and failing. So the standard at entry would have to be considerably higher.

After all it is free

At Norfolk we still qualify under SSE although the Central Theme has been adopted as the preferred method of teaching within the club.
NSC has a fairly rigorous training programme, in that people who want to qualify as CI's have to pass an assessment to demonstrate that their personal skiing is to an acceptable level, they then do the training weekend followed by nearly a year of training once a week, together with shadowing other instructors, before they attend the assessment day. To then qualify as an ASSI they again attend the training weekend followed by normally at least 12 months attending training sessions and shadowing other qualified ASSI's. Most ASSI's therefore have taken a minimum of at least 2 years to qualify and during that time will have attended probably over 200 hours of training and have nearly as many hours of shadowing under their belt. Once qualified most who continue teaching attend regular training and the three yearly revalidation day.
NSC are currently assessing the BASI Level 1.

monster77

As someone who knows a SSE ASSI very well, and the amount of hard work that was put in to get the qualification, I can understand the frustration of the SSE ASSIs when some SSS ASSIs come along after passing a five day course with an action plan to improve there standard of skiing, and are only just better than Club Instructor level getting the same lessons and claiming the same rate of pay. maybe different slopes work differently on the rates of pay. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that all SSS ASSIs are poor instructors, it is just that I know of some and have seen their skiing/teaching, and this can irk the SSE ASSIs somewhat.

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monster77, true can be said for the SSE ASSIs though! Thats the point to employer of instructors was making I think. You know what your getting with a SSS ASSI, it does what it says on the tin! No doubt there are great SSE ASSIs, however, the fact that it takes longer ( course time is actualy shorter SSE ASSI as the 5th day is a pure assessment and no training) may not lead to higher level instructors. My own thoughts are its down to the experiences any of these instructors gain. I can see for an employers point of veiw though, you want to know that what your getting is the consistant I guess.

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elbrus, sorry off thread but do you see a future for SSE CI rating? will it be a pathway to level 1 or just operate as a volunteer CI badge or die....

skimottaret, could create a path way to L1 and also be useful for instructors to teach for a club (it original purpose). Thing is the training syllabus for CI (and ASSI SSE) needs a full up grade. I am aware that the SSE scheme is currently under threat. Question is why? If SSE had done a good job, continued to develop, then I am sure the scheme would survive.

I dont see BASI or SSS as "taking over" as such. SSE have miss managed their scheme and are now weak and vulnerable. Any product (qualifications or otherwise) is consumer lead. What is it people want to do? The typical SSE culture has always been to stand inside and moan about what's going on outside. I would like to see the scheme take on a radical up grade and stand alone. Its in the hands of the members.

So you SSE members out there, what are you doing about it? You voted your representatives in, only you can sort it. Little Angel

You know it makes sense.

Ahem, as an SSW ASSI (same route as SSE afaik) I don't recall having much of a voting opportunity on this rolling eyes

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Yoda, don't you vote in your board directors? Sure SSE have a system. Problem is that when voting comes around no one really cares! Then their scheme starts to fall apart and they wonder how. I am sure the members have a vote as to who represents the coaching scheme. Anyone clear on this?

A snowHead

elbrus, I believe we do get to vote in the directors, but that's maybe 1 or 2 every year as individual terms of office end? I would guess a large proportion of ASSI's (and nearly all CI's) here in Wales are non-paid volunteers and don't bother to attend the AGM (which could be in Llandudno for example) etc. If I hadn't been on a trip to Norway a couple of years ago and latterly read the threads on snowHead

s I wouldn't even know that SSS had introduced their "be an ASSI in 5 days" scheme and would have no idea what BASI were up to with regard to Level 1.

A snowHead

elbrus, John Shedden is the current Coaches Representative while Peter Hanford Styring was elected this year as the National Coaching Scheme Members’ Representative at the AGM according to the minutes on the SSE web site.

Members of the coaching scheme could vote as I recall.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

david@mediacopy, thanks for that. So there you have it SSE members, 2 names of people who represent you! Get them working for you and with your desires in mind. Its your scheme. They represent you.

monster77

The SSE seem to be run by a bunch of old foggies who are reluctant to change, and do not want young blood coming in with fresh exciting ideas. Puzzled

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elbrus, the old SSE ASSI route was a very good route, with your long term development in mind, there were some great SSE coaches out there, Kevin Taylor, Chris Stroud, Alan Ashcroft but to name a few.

Of course if you had a rubbish SSE coach (no names) - then your development isn't so good, and you'd keep failing the ASSI exam.

But on the whole the good coaches produced some excellent skiers and teachers in the long run.

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Isn't it "Ashfield"? Or am I thinking of a different person?

After all it is free

Hmmm. Now you've got me thinking, it could very well be Ashfield! Laughing

Spyderman, curious as to how many instructors are on the books at Hemel as i must have met at least 5 or 6 that work at MK as well....

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skimottaret, About 120 on the books in total, but not all are active. 5-6 at MK, I think you've met them all then. Just a short term thing I think, can't see them staying there when Hemel re-opens. I'm going to do a bit at Welwyn. I've been there twice now and have been very impressed so far, which is more than I can say for MK.

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English ASSI V Scottish ASSI

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