 Poster: A snowHead
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Trying to be a little less abrasive than I was in the other thread . . . the one that seems to be wandering off on search of a chocolate starfish to hide in . . .
Is there anything other than a high level body control and very good application of the techniques that we all have to learn just to be able to slide down the hill?
Other than having to adapt to the artificial obstacles of the slalom events, I don't see that racing is anything more than fitness, strength and application of the skills we have to learn to enjoy our sport to its full extent?
Is "Race Technique" just the lessons we don't want to pay for and the physical effort we don't want exercise?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Masque, I'd say YES 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Same skills, applied at a high level. From my point of view the fact that you are skiing in gates tests your skills at a much higher level than regular piste skiing rather than actually demanding anything different. This might not be true for 'proper' racers (I wouldn't know), but for recreational skiers who are just 'messing around' in the gates it's harder, not different. In order to make any progress with my skiing in gates I've had to pay for a lot of lessons, lose a lot of weight and improve my fitness. So to answer your final question, yes!
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 18-09-07 9:29; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Masque, I think some of the confusion comes about from trying to equate "Race Technique vs. All Mountain Technique", and "Race Tactics vs. All Mountain Tactics".
The two would give very different answers!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, you're obfuscating, you can't lob a grenade into this midden whilst wearing a blank (or stating a blank) expression. Modern racing has degenerated from 'all mountain' skiing into the controlled and artificial iced piste time-trial that we watch today and as such is just a narrow part of the skills set. At the same time, although the surface has become semi-artificial in the sole pursuit of speed (and some say safety  ), I don't see that technique(s) are any different, just a fitness and practised subset of all we need to learn.
"Tactics", as we again wander off on the path of semantic onanism . . . are an application of skills and not as we're discussing here, the physical act of skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Masque, I was lobbing a proposition, not making a statement!
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Maybe I'm missing something obvious, or perhaps subtle, but I think there's a fairly clear difference between technique and tactics. By technique I think we mean the methods by which we steer our skis in the most efficient manner. By tactics (in a race context) I think we mean choice of line, sacrificing some gates to do well on others, drift n'lock or big pivot, etc. My experience of skiing gates has been almost entirely confined to lessons in technique (which is applicable to all the situations I ski in), and almost nothing about tactics (which would only be applicable to skiing gates). I think there is the potential to confuse the two (for example, the number of times Bode Miller's tactics have been mentioned in threads about whether the Eurotest is a good thing for ski instructors), so I can't see what the problem is with veeeight's comment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, the prob with veeeight's comment is simply that he went off topic for no reason that I'm prepared to accept . . . my thread, my throwing dummy out of pushchair 
This thread is about the practicalities of keeping wax and snow in the right orientation and how if at all there's any difference to those skills needed to stay waxy side down while racing.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 18-09-07 10:45; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Inreply to Masque's opening question, exactly. And that's precisely the point that those of us who are favourably disposed to a time-trial element in a technical assessment of an instructor's capabilities have made time and time again. Differentiating between technique and tactics is probably useful, and rob@rar's elaboration sums it up for me pretty succinctly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Masque,
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Trying to be a little less abrasive than I was in the other thread
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that'll be a first then !!
Race techniques are more or less what people talk about when skiing/boarding is treated as a sport and not a pastime. Let's face it, for most of us it's just a pastime. We may be better or worse than others but we're not racing (timed). It's a deeper and more focused understanding and application of fundamental techniques involved in skiing. So I'd say racing technique is more but just more detailed, not fundamentally different. So basically I'm agreeing.
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Nickski, Me too, but I'd add to it that as developments in formula 1 often end up in the family saloon (eventually), so too do developments in technique from the WC skiers and coaches.
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You know it makes sense.
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Good point. My first decent teacher - who was generally pretty old school in outlook, hated 'these new-fangled caaaarve skis' - made the point in my (2nd week) lessons that people looking at us (if we could actually do what he said) would think we were much more experienced than we actually were, as he taught (old-style) racing techniques, utilising gravity as much as possible, rather than anything that the ESF was doing at the time (for which he had very little good to say). At that time it's probably fair to say that racing and recreational skills were further apart than they are today.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, entwined within your thread starting question is the impression you already know the answer. You'd be right.
Pull my string and I'll say it again; skills are skills, technique is technique, regardless of how or where applied. The tactical application of technique comes more into play in gates, where the course of travel is mandated, and failure to adhere caries distinct and unpleasant consequences. It's a lesser issue in recreational skiing, where you have the luxury of meandering more happenstance down the slope.
Each specific technique used in racing,,, type of turn, type of transition, type of anglulation, state of rotation, state of balance, has situational application in recreational skiing too. The principles of bio-mechanic efficiency that exist in a race course are just as legitimate when freeskiing.
Technique: The manner in which you ski.
Tactics: The strategy of selecting and applying techniques in a manner that will achieve a desired result.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The principles of bio-mechanic efficiency that exist in a race course are just as legitimate when freeskiing.
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Yuuus, however. the choice and application in the race course may be different to that on all-mountain all day skiing.
A racer may sacrifice bio-mechanicall efficiency in order to gain time advantage, knowing full well that the race will only last 3 minutes. But a skier skiing all day all terrain should seek a balance more toward bio-mechanical efficiency to last the day!
As people like Formula1 analogies on here: A F1 engine has a running life of not much more than a few hours before a rebuild, you'd be pretty upset if your road car engine required stripping every 5 hours.
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FAQ
You should now that once we give birth to new threads they grow up pretty quickly and develop an independent life of their own 
