 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi,
I've heard bad things about the ESF for kids. Is that founded? And does anyone have specific experience of the ESF in Oz en Oisans?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Dunno about the ESF, but be careful with a 4 year old in ski school.
My youngest started skiing just after his 4th birthday and he didn't really enjoy it. The days were too long, skiing was too difficult, he missed his mum and dad and he got too cold. and, from his perspective, the worst thing was that his older brothers learned faster than he did. Having said that, he's now a very strong skier and he loves the sport so no permanent harm was done.
The ski school and child care facilities (Breckenridge) were first rate, but we spent a great deal of the holiday child-minding rather than letting him cry with strangers. Your child might be very different, but you might need to be very flexible if things don't work out the way you plan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I would definately recommend heading to a ski resort with a first rate kids centre. You want your childs first few experiences of snow to be fun! You want the wee blighter to be hooked so you have someone to go skiing with way after the time your old buddies have given in and hung up their planks. I am a bit biased.. but the Kids Centres at both Silver Star and Big White in BC are excellent. Wherever you go you want your child to be in a dedicated child friendly centre that incorporates child care should your kid throw a tantrum one day or just generally not feel up to going out in the cold. I would suggest that the stories I have heard and also my experience with coming into contact with the ESF would suggest they are not ideal for little uns... like anything though if your child likes the instructor it will be plain sailing if the instructor doesn`t have the skills to make the child feel comfortable, happy and ready to slide then there may be trouble ahead. Hope it works out. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
hope it works out. look what they say on the oz en oisans website about ESF> http://www.esf-ozenoisans.com/activites-jardindesneiges-uk.htm As i understand it ESF is a franchise so what is good in on resort can stink in another. Call them and see how many little ones of that age they would have in a class. Oz is a family resort so they may be better for kids than say ESF in another mega resort. However I've no experience to comment. In terms of comments about cold/bad weather. oz ' s local domain is 1300 metres-2000 metres and is well sheltered and much of its is in trees. There is a good nursery area from my memory of skiing down there and much of accomodation will be ski in out not far for you to get little ones to ski school
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
m00958, good advice from Jonny Jones, which echoes my own experience. With a child as young as 4 you need to be prepared to devote your week to ensuring they have a good time (and I DON'T mean hovering around the lesson, before all the instructors jump in!). Most kids need time to get used to the snow, to how it feels, moving around in it, and the best people to do it with are parents, not strangers, especially if they don't speak a lot of English. I have never had a child in an ESF class but I have seen big groups, with the inevitable stragglers falling down at the back and looking thoroughly miserable (also seen groups when they all look fine). My daughter did Austrian ski school at 4, in a completely German speaking group, and she coped OK, but that was in the second week of a two week holiday and we had put in a lot of work in the first week, getting her ready for it. Snowmen, snowballs, gentle tobogganing, etc. After that, and seeing her big brothers have fun, and all the other little girls getting a medal and photo at the prize giving (an Austrian thing) she was begging to go to ski school. We told her it was expensive, and if she wimped out we wouldn't be best pleased (can't be too soggy with them!). We said we'd hire boots and skis for her on the middle Saturday, and we did walking around on the nursery slope, pulling her up tiny gradients and sliding down "hands on knees". Didn't go near a lift. We said if she enjoyed it and didn't moan - at all - we'd enrol her in ski school. If we had thrown her in on day 1 there would have been tears and misery - absolutely guaranteed. She had quite a lot of lessons, over quite a few years, and she was technically very competent, but it was a long time before she would really "go for it". Not all kids are screaming down mountains overtaking their parents at the age of 8.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
m00958, no experiene with ESF in that resort, but our 4 year old was in ESF in Vallandry last Christmas. IMHO they were terrible - huge group on the bunny slope, no real control of them and they wouldn't aknowledge her previous ski lessons at MK Xscape.
In the end we took her out ourselves and she progressed well - I would not use them again based on this. BUT.. ESF get glowing reports elsewhere
As others have said little ones tire easily, a couple of hours skiing and the rest in a creche or just playing in the snow is all they can manage
See if there is a private company offering lessons as I'm sure they will have better ratios
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
See if there is a private company offering lessons as I'm sure they will have better ratios
|
Yes - for some years my ski holiday planning revolved round the availability of good quality instruction. But not all schools will take 4 year olds (for good reason!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I took my oldest boy to Passo Tonale when he was four with only a few problems. We did prepare him with a few private lessons on the dry slope before we went, very gentle stuff so as not to put him off before we got there!
On the first morning of ski school we did have a few tears but the ski school there handled him magnificently. A very sweet and attractive young Italien lady played in the snow with him and all the others who were a bit apprehensive and before we knew it they were all happily following her round as if she were the pied piper.
Other than the time he was in ski school we didn't get a lot of skiing done, we took him up the mountain for lunch, skied down and spent the rest of the day swimming, making snowmen, sledging etc. He did get very tired toward the end of the week - a cumulative effect I think.
All in all though I think it was worth doing and am preparing to take him and little brother, now four, skiing in March.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
It sounds like my experience with a four year old wasn't too unusual. The holiday might be a fantastic success, but dawn to disk skiing for the adults while the little 'un is cossetted by the ski-school is probably not a terribly liklely outcome. Having said that, I guess that most people have kids because they want to spend time with them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
Jonny Jones, my experience as well.
When our little un was 4 we went away with another family with similar age kids, so some of the time grown up couples could have a wee ski together (if they wanted).
Also, re ESF, it's a franchise so they vary quite a bit resort to resort depending on local management.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Our little boy was in the ESF snowgarden last Xmas when he was 3 and was fine, it's nice gentle play based stuff in a completely secure environment and I have no qualms about sending him to the one in Val d'Isere this Xmas when we go there.
The ESF does vary from resort to resort, yes, but I'd suspect that'd be more apparent in classes for older children and adults than in sessions that basically involve sliding, playing and having fun in a fenced off area under supervision of nursery trained staff and instructors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There's a lovely snow garden in Arc 1800 that the ESF use, with an indoor area when the kids need a break from the snow. Our neighbours five year old was enrolled last Christmas for the week and had a terrific time. Perhaps check out the snow garden as well as asking about whether the school has instructors who specialise in kindergarten teaching before deciding whether to enrol your four year old?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
roga, was that the ESF in Oz?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The posts on here seem to suggest that this ESF ski school lasts for some time each day. The lessons my kids (age 4 & 7 this year) (and the children of my Swiss friends) have had at our resort have lasted from 10am to 12 noon with 15 mins for a break and a drink in the warm ski-school club house in the middle. We have looked after them for the rest of the day. Do the ESF lessons described here last longer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Megamum, yes, if that's what you book. It's mostly morning and/or afternoon sessions, but some courses for kids can last all day including lunch. Different ESF schools in different resorts will offer their own programmes, but I'd guess this was a fairly standard offering?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
stewart woodward, 10 Years ago the ESF kids lunch in Tignes was a pickled egg in a bag of crisps.  I hope it has changed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
We stayed in Oz at the beginning of March two years ago and some had lessons with ESF including a first time 6 yr old ( at least heading in the right direction age wise)
Overall, we were pretty impressed - small classes, good English and everyone kids and adults alike had a great time. Same 6 yr old came with us to LDA this year and can't remember Easiski rolling her eyes in horror at what he had been taught.
Usual caveat I suppose of it all depends what week and who you get etc etc and I can't remember much in the way of a 'snow garden' - but as it wasn't my 6 yr old so maybe I just wasn't paying attention.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
a pickled egg in a bag of crisps.
|
is that better than two hard boiled eggs in a hankie?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Annie, I think they've changed things a little. Was reading the "Where To Ski 2007" book (or whatever the thing is called) and it had an entry in there that Oz had added a moving carpet for the snow garden.
Glad to hear some positive noise specifically about the ESF in Oz. We were thinking of putting her in the nursery which has a link up with the ESF. Hopefully that'll meant that if she doesn't want to do the skiing she can just got the nursery instead. Will have to contact them to make sure though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
m00958, We used ESF in Vaujany (next door to Oz) at Xmas for our 6 yr old. We saw lots of little ones from Oz every day, my son loved it and progressed well even though the conditions were icy (not much snow). But we only used them in the morning and kept him with us for the afternoons, it was his 2nd week skiing and just wanted to spend time with us too, hope this helps 
We skied to Oz too, it looks very nice, in fact had there been more snow I'm sure its a great place to ski, we were limited due to the conditions, but it seems these smaller resorts are quieter, hardly any queues but with a vast ski area!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mrtoastie, yes you're right. The setup of the childrens' centre at Silver Star is excellent. Our daughter was in the creche part when we went as she was a bit under 2.5 at the time. The smallest skiers then get to learn in the area immediately outside the centre and they had their own magic carpet. The staff were excellent and our daughter took to the creche straight away.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
m00958, Hi...Last time we were in Oz with the kids (2005 season) they were 3 and 5. 3 yr old was in the nursery, and 5 yr old was in the ESF class. From what I remember the 3yr old also got out to the little snow park and the carpet lift with ESF, but wasn't too keen on the cold and was happier inside - so yes, it was possible to change depnding on what the child wants One thing to remember is that I think you need to bring vaccination certs for the nursery.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
rzer, thanks for the info. Did your, then, 5 year old enjoy it? What did you think of the standard of teaching?
Must remember to take vaccination certificate(s) 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
m00958, We have a place in Oz and kids now aged 6 & 7 who have ESF lessons 3 weeks a season there with absolutely no complaints from them! Friends have had younger children in the snow garden which is well sheltered under the trees and always seems a relatively good ratio of kids to instructors. The snow garden doesn't have the magic carpet - thats the nursery slope in the village, the snow garden is very tame indeed. The general vibe locally regarding Oz ESF is very positive. PM Me if you need any more specific info.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Nick Dawes, thanks for the info. That's really put my mind at rest
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Just to add a quick comment on behalf of ESF, our kids who were 6 & 8 at the time, went into ESF last year at Vars with a mainly French speaking group for 4 (2x2) hours per day and came on leaps and bounds. Although not much English was spoken they learned by following the instructor and by their French peers, and also by having fun.
Not all ESF classes are as bad as made out to be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
