 Poster: A snowHead
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planning a long weekend in mid Jan and fancy exploring Alagna
Would love some help with these questions.
1. Quite taken by the idea of staying in the Refugio Guglielmina up at 2800m! Apparently there will even be hot showers this year.
What is the likelihood of not being able to get into it/out of it due to bad weather? I've spent several days on the trot in Chamonix and L3V when nothing has been open to 2800m.
2. We're likely to do 3.5 days skiing and perhaps two of those with a guide. We're experienced off-piste skiers and would carry proper kit but I've read some reports that the route finding is dicey. WOuld we find enough close to the piste stuff to keep us busy on the non-guided days?
3. What's the skiing like in bad weather - merely very limited or practically non-existant?
All in all, would be be better staying in Gressoney and going over to Alagna on the two guided days?
Many thanks,
J
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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1. The Refugio is in quite an exposed location but the lifts up to it are modern and don't go too far above the ground. I think you'd be pretty unlucky to get stuck there. Mid-Jan is probably the most likely time for it to happen tho...
2. I don't think route finding is that dicey unless you're going for quite ambitious routes (ie the sorts of things you'd do with a guide). If you have good vis and have a bit of a clue (which it sounds like you do) there is plenty to do which doesn't involve going too far from the lifts
3. never had to deal with bad weather while i've been in the area but i think it would be better to be in the gressoney valley than alagna if it socked in. there is some tree skiing above gressoney st jean for example. can't think of much in alagna (but happy to be corrected)
a couple of general points:
1. i am struggling to think of reasons to go to alagna over gressoney. you can do the run all the way back to alagna at the end of the day and maybe some of the heli-skiing routes take you back down there... maybe people who have done some of the more far out routes can chime in on this point
2. i would say mid-jan is very early to be going there. historically, it has been quite dry so it might take a while for snow to build up. and much of the skiing is over rocks rather than grass. maybe consider going there later in the season?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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FFS..I HAVE JUST TYPED AND LOST WAR AND PIECE ON THIS.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'll try again.
The refuge is at the Passo de Salati which is the ridge that devides Gressoney and Alagne. Once you make the height of the ridge from either side, it is a quick shuss/traverse to the refuge. Both the Gressoney Salati lift and the Alagne Olen lift are modern and have been built low so wind is less a factor. Time, late in the day is a more likely pain so make sure you know when the last uplifts are. From the Refuge you would take the Olen piste down to Pianalunga ( bottom of the 2 chair out of Alange ) and then upto Bochettafor and the old car car to Punta Indren altho they always talked of it being de-commisioned so I don't know if it is still running. If it is, you can get to Balma/Stolen which is another huge bowl on the Alange side like Olen...although they have pisted Olen now FFS, to justify the new lift and connection and open up Alange as a piste dwellers viallge. Which I can't see why, but there you go..!!!! Maybe they have to pay back the EU money on the 3 modern lifts out of Alagne.
If you can, get the old cable car for Malfatta etc otherwise it isn't worth doing too often as the way into the valley via BAlma is a pain through trees and tracks and in bad snow, you will be rock hopping all the time. Check if they have replaced the old BAlma lift out of that bowl which saves you the trip down to Alagne. It is like P1, in LG. You only want to do it the once or so...just to say and know you have done it. The rest of the time get the little jumk lift back to Bocchetta.
I think what they mean by the routes being difficult to navigate is that they are hard to see...everything is tucked away behind a ridge into the next valley....Andaluce (sp) or Salaza for example. You will have to follow someone who knows from Punta Indren.
As nice as the idea of the refuge is, I'd agree with Arno that it is best to stay in La Trinite 1st time round to hook up with the guides that plan the day events from the Hotel Dufour.
I would plan two heli trips..... one from the Col du Lyksamm for the run down the glacier face back to Staffal and then one from the Col Felix to get the high stuff into the Gornagrat/Monterosa glacier. Don't be tempted by the normal Monterosa run as you will spot tracks high left and wonder why they aren't yours. The Monterosa trip is mainly mileage ( 65kms ) and only the top bit is good. The cross-over into Zermatt is all piste and lifts and a race..as you can't get stuck on the Colle de Cime Bianche which is the gateway back to Champoluc from Cervinia. It is still about 20kms downhill from there and if you stay at the Refuge you will have to get up and over and up again....!!!! They might hold the lifts at Frachey for you, but probably not at Staffall which is still two stages..!!!
Anyway, A few routes to talk to the guides about are Passo Zube which has a nice gully and drop into Olen, Malfatta which you get to from Punta Indren, Salza to name just a few.
I probably can make up a TR if I have the right vids on this PC but the area is vast, full of Scandis and good value.
IMO, stay at the Dufour, Jolanda Sport or Residence in La Trinite. They are all at the bottom of the Punta Jolanda lift which is as central as it gets. Maybe Staffal is a shade better but the guide Ops are run from the Dufour in LA Trinite, AIUI.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Another point in favour of Gressoney is that it is much easier to get to than Alagna!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not sure your level , however I can recomend www.mountaintracks.co.uk for instructional / guided courses in Gressoney. Also I agree that Gressoney and especialy the www.hoteldufour.it give a great base for exploration of that area.
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thanks very much for all the tips (particularly for JT's double effort)- collectively you make a good case for Gressoney, which makes me a bit nervous that we have booked the refugio. My mate took a look at the wine list and the pictures of cheese and salami and made an executive decision. Should be an experience. I appreciate we need some luck with the snow.
We'll be going milan malpensa to alagna which doesn't seem much longer than Turin - gressoney. Hire car should give us some (albeit long) options if the conditions go all wrong.
Thanks again
J
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in my experience of 3 x 3 day trips to Gressoney at least one day has been affected by wind, with the top lifts getting closed, and on 2 days, burger all decent skiing to be had. I don't know if the refuge has an non lift way of getting you there in wind? Maybe worth asking them! I've eaten there and the food was good!
I'd defo agree on staying in Gress, on one trip we couldn't get up to Alagna, but the other side was open and could still find some good stuff despite a howling gale, the only problem was the gude persuading them to keep open the gondola home, once we got in it and it started swinging in the wind we started to regret getting into it!!
Cheers,
Greg
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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jedster, hot showers? Every day? All day? Will you still need your own torch at night?
The refuge is top and I don't think you are likely to get stuck there, although high winds can sometimes make getting there tricky. Can't say much about cover but I rather question the Alagna assertion of free ride paradise. Sometimes maybe.
Avoid the donkey stew unless you like that sort of thing.
Malpensa the best road route after Turin (marginally closer).
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jedster,
I think the refuge could be an inspired choice...and you can't get out of it now anyway..and nor should you.
If you don't get blown off with the wind, it will be great. I haven't been back sinve the bulldozed Olen ( the run) and put the new lift in but it will make the Alagne side much more wind-proof as none of the cables run high AFAIRC.
Much more prone is the old cable car which makes great height to 3260...but that is an old bit of kit in the wind..!!!
Maybe someone can confirm if it is still running. It probably has passed its shelf life but the Alagne side just can't afford to replace it..they have spent too much money on the other 3 lifts in the valley and do not get the masses to pay for it. When I stayed in Alagne, there was us and the Scandi group of about 30 pus a few stragglers for the week and we all left by wednesday as the top lift had broken... !!! and noone could say when they would fix it...?
The weather and snow will come from the south so that puts it on another pattern than other nearby - geographically- places.
Very nice people at the hut and if they have hot water now then sorted..!!!
The road upto Alagne is long and not so steep...makes sense then
Got any must do's? if not then ask about Malfatta, Salza and you will see a nice gully dropping into Olen from the Alagne side but you have to access it from the Gressoney side of the ridge...if there are people on it, you'll see them and want to do it..can't recall what it is called. That should set you up for a good idea of what is what but the guides I have used are good
Are you going AT? and look forward to a TR...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't know if it is still available but I have a book on the off-piste routes "Polvere Rosa" (in Italian and English) from Idee Verticali Edizioni. But Italian 1:25,000 maps are not very good, showing contour lines only every 20m.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowball wrote: |
| I don't know if it is still available but I have a book on the off-piste routes "Polvere Rosa" (in Italian and English) from Idee Verticali Edizioni. But Italian 1:25,000 maps are not very good, showing contour lines only every 20m. |
you can get a Swiss map (maybe even a ski map) which covers the area
Italian maps are more artist's impressions than maps
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We used the refuge a couple of times for lunch when I stayed in Alagna a few years ago.
The first day we went, there was a blizzard blowing and the refuge suddenly appeared through the whiteout. As we arrived I saw a chap hard at work shovelling snow and I thought he looked remarkably Nepalese. As he looked up I offered the traditional Nepalese greeting of "mamaste" and sure enough he was Nepalese, from the main Sherpa village of Namche Bazaar and he was working there on some sort of exchange visit.
Arriving at the refuge as we did in the mist, I felt a bit like I might have gone through some kind of science fiction time warp.
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You know it makes sense.
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Yep I figure the refuge decision will either seem genius or ridiculous depending on the weather...
Thanks for the input on routes. We'll end up with 2 half days and 3 full days so the plan is
1. arrive and pootle about on and around the pistes for our first turns of the season
2. go out with a guide (we'll have a few lines to ask him about now...)
3. blast around the whole area and have a long lunch (unless of course its a powder day)
4. go out with a guide again - perhaps a heli drop if it'll get us better conditions
5. repeat as many lines as we can in 5 hours...
I would go AT but my mate has a pathological hatred of hardwork... my chances of getting him to skin anywhere are minimal. So I'll be taking my alpine gear.
Will post a TR. Which reminds me, I must post some stuff on May's tour around Grand Paradiso...
J
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jedster, Thought I'd bump this thread, as we're considering Alagna or Gr.St Jean from 24-29 Jan.
Your post said "mid-Jan" - how mid is mid? Do we coincide?
Looks like the snow is building at last - heavy snow forecast this w/e and more next week (maybe you'll be skiing this  )
Any one been there recently, and got any comments / recommendations to add?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm also going to bump this thread cos jedster *still* hasn't done his Gran Paradiso TR. Can it possibly live up to the build-up???? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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re. Geoffers post, This might be teaching the grandmother to suck eggs (in which case I apologise), but iirc G St Jean is a village with it's own ski area not hooked into the main monterosa area except by skibus. So perhaps not so handy if that's what you were hoping to do.
d
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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geoffers,
St Jean is supposedly livelier than Trinite but it is detached from the lift system and you will bus up to Trinite or Staffal anyway.
Alagne is up a long long valley ( best from Milan ) and although very quaint and olde world..a time warp even.. isn't the best way in an out of the lift system, IMV. Although I wouldn't argue against a 1st time visit to there, it feels very remote and the mountains are huge... I imagine the foothills of the Himalaya..
I, too look forwrd to some upto date reports
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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oops - I think I got my Gressoneys mixed up - thanks for that.... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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