 Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, brian, and me. However, I do think that fastman and easiski both express themselves clearly, especially perhaps easiski because she is always succinct and never resorts to jargon - or at least, if she does, she explains the terms. And neither of them is at all patronising, which is more than can be said for some.  You can just tell, on the page, that they must be inspiring teachers on the hill.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
You can just tell, on the page, that they must be inspiring teachers on the hill.
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Are you another one that can extrapolate someone's personality, ability etc. though a keyboard ??? Wow.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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veeeight, Yes, people give away a huge amount about themselves (some more than others, obviously) when they post on here, not least about the ways in which they relate to other people, including those that they don't know well - an important aspect of teaching, I'm sure you will agree.
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Hurtle, I take my hat off to you. You would be invaluable to many on intrernet forums in determining the way paedophiles relate to other people, including those that they don't know well.
It's a dangerous assumption to extrapolate someone's real life personality from a few keyboard strokes. Others on here have fallen into that trap and got it very horribly wrong.
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Isn't the reach for inside ski tip thing that ski mottaret described an extension of the teapot/superman turn or schlopy drill? What does inside arm reaching forward and down achieve? Must go try it. D'ya still need to push the hips to the inside?
Hurtle, well, you're certainly right about easiski 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Have you had a go at collapsing the outer leg, as opposed to extending the inner?
I seem to get more "topple" that way.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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skimottaret, I don't get that description at all.... I'm making a left hand turn... so left ski is inside ski yes? and at end of that turn(right before the transition to next turn) I am pushing that left (inside) hip up and forward and reaching left hand(inside hand) forward?
Do you mean "up" as in up the skiers torso direction or "uphill" ?
In that turn I would be driving that new inside hip forward as soon as that leg started to flex and the other to lengthen(ie as the pressure changes in an ILE turn).... so in fact at the other end of teh turn to you...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Mosha Marc, you get more "topple" but lose connection to snow - ie more "float" at start of turn ....Different transition to extending the old inside leg as first movement...
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Mosha Marc, i coud be wrong but that sounds more like a cross under move as opposed to a cross over.... That move doesnt work for me because i tend to get too low in the turn and get "stuck"
little tiger, Yes and Up as in torso. try looking at the second and third frames of bode going left around the red gate. His left hadn is very low and driving forward in frane two, in frame three his hip is moving up away from the hill AND forward. THe very last frame is the position my instructor had me trying to do. notice inside hand/shoulder forward and right hip leading the left
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, AFAIK between the second and third frames around the red gate he has started his transition into the next turn... so start of turn not end... you can clearly see an extension of the inside leg between those two shots.... His old outside(new inside) hip is rotating forward in those shots too... look between 2 and 4 and you can clearly see the pelvic rotation....
So I'm still confused what you are trying to do at the end of a turn...
AIUI he gets into the last shot position by doing all the stuff he does well before that - not by contorting himself at turn end.... and he is there because it makes him in a strong position to deal with forces he is getting....
Take another look at that Nyberg video - IIRC the pelvic rotation with the ILE is very clear on that even for my crappy ability to see movement
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Frame 3 he is clearly punching his (left) inner arm upwards, as well as about to stomp on his left leg (ILE) presumably at the end of the sequence we would see his right arm and leg doing the same to set up the next turn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatbob, he started extending that left leg between frames 2 and 3.... he is not about to do it... he has been extending and is relaxing the other leg while extending that one further... note how much his right leg bends between 3 and 4
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One of the great things about easiski, IMV, is her ability to convey instructions easily, without the desire to baffle or confuse or posture.
Not for the nothing, the name....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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veeeight,
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I take my hat off to you. You would be invaluable to many on intrernet forums in determining the way paedophiles relate to other people, including those that they don't know well.
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Do you really think that nothing can be revealed about you from these words? And no, I am not going to indulge in psychological profiling on here, I would never do so, even without the benefit of your unsolicited advice. I nevertheless stand by my inference from what they have written that both easiski and fastman have considerable didactic skills. My inference was no more than that, it was not what you have bizarrely described as 'an extrapolation of personality... from a few strokes of the keyboard'.
By the way, although I myself am not about to carry out any psychological profiling of dodgy internet posters, I imagine that there are some well qualified people around, whose precise job that is. I certainly hope so.
Apologies to others for an inadvertent hijack of this thread, the technicalities of which have once again induced in me a mental topple factor. I had better get my coat, or at least my ski jacket. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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JT,
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One of the great things about easiski, IMV, is her ability to convey instructions easily, without the desire to baffle or confuse or posture.
Not for the nothing, the name....
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Exactly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| fatbob, he started extending that left leg between frames 2 and 3.... he is not about to do it... he has been extending and is relaxing the other leg while extending that one further... note how much his right leg bends between 3 and 4 |
Fair enough - poor choice of words I think of extension as being angles greater than 90 deg but of course relatively you are right.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatbob, i think you get it butlittle tiger, i did say it was hard to describe (at least for me) and hence the photo which deomonstrates perfectly what i was trying to get across in my very poor description.
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Just thinking about the legs... if you want to get from positions at 2 to positions at 7 you have to bend the right leg and extend the left.... He starts to do that by extending the left - not by flexing the right leg....
The Nyberg video is the best example of ILE for me - you can see it very clearly... and also the pelvic rotation... I watch him ski and I can feel my ski pants move across my skin as I make that sort of turn
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skimottaret, but his pelvic rotation comes as he transitions - for me that is the start of the turn not the end... You describe a very different thing at least to my understanding... If we look at frame 4 where his skis are pretty flat on snow his right hip still trails although he is driving it through by now in his transition.... by 5 I bet it leads - and that is certainly early in the turn... not the end at all...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret, I understand what you're saying, but I think little tiger's right that this process of leading with the inside should start right at the beginning and not in the bottom half of the turn. The schlopy drill is designed to do just this (I think). Reaching down to the ski though, not sure what this does. Maybe it's more appropriate at higher speeds, loading and edge angles 
little tiger, do you still happen to have the link to the nyberg vid?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Arno, Thanks, have PM'd you to avoid further thread hijack.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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little tiger, it's in my bookmarks and I'd forgotten what a very good site it is 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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slikedges, I like watching the aussie on the ball.... amazing balance skills and core strength... and he is a WC skier but not top 30 very often even IIRC....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow, great discussion folks. 
Hurtle, , thank you. It's hard trying to explain in type alone technical concepts in a progressive manner that people new to the sport can easily understand, not feel overwhelmed, continues to educate, and eventually leads them to high levels of understanding and competence in the sport. Can't say I always succeed, but it's my goal.
rob@rar, I plan to eventually clear up any ILE (Inside leg Extension) confusion here. It's such a valuable turn transition (means of connecting one turn to the next). The how to do it part is extremely easy. The WHY it works is more complicated, but understanding that part can help much with putting it to use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, have any other race techniques that "aren't in the manual" that we can add to the mix 
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easiski, have worked on that, getting back to neutral and on one legged skiing. Not doing too badly but have a way to go till it all becomes natural. Roll on the season!
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I have to admit to being slightly confused by the drill, and intent. I agree with easiski in sofar that early skiers and intermediates don't have any seperation ability, so this could work by creating some sort of seperation (although strictly speaking it's @rse about face, one should get the skis/feet/legs to ski into counter, not use the upper body to create counter) - but at any higher level and/or speeds the trend is to stay squarer to the skis..... Or have I completely misunderstood the drill/intent/outcome?
Using the sequence of Bode above, looking at the last frame, Bode is on his inside ski (by intent, for line, because he was late exiting the previous gate) - evidenced by the nice sharp track left by his inside ski, and the outside ski washing away at a different angle. Not necessarily something that I would drill into somebody (except as a tactic and/or recovery, as Bode is doing in that sequence above).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Guys,,, hint. A more KISS explanation of what "upper/lower body separation" is may be needed. I can envision some eyes glazing right now in reading that bit.
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veeeight, It's not to create counter but to eliminate rotation. No-one can ski properly when their whole body is going the same way as the skis all the time ... I seem to remember a very good diagram you did in one of the skiing myths showing where the body should go and where the feet should go... The point is, we have 6 bits to our bodies: 2 arms, 2 legs, a torso and a head, and the vast majority of skiers ski as though they were 1 solid piece. Getting the upper body in (and I did say) more or less the right place is a good start, it has the effect of throwing more weight and pressure onto the turning ski, thus the skis work better and the skier feels that the turn is much less effort, more efficient, less scary and so on.... It really works, but they have to do it every single turn for about 3 days till it becomes automatic - looks a bit silly to start with, but stops all shoulder rotation dead (does a pretty good job on hip rotation too in about 65% of cases).
skimottaret, skiing on one leg??? (seriously)
slikedges, Well done - won't be long now.
UPPER/LOWER BODY SEPARATION is a mouthful but means just what it says on the tin - the upper body (torso and head) and the lower body (legs) can do different things at different times - just like in real life!
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FAQ
