 Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone taken it? if so any tips?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Go fast.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, good idea, thanks i will keep repeating to myself "must go fast, must go fast" any other useful tips?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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skimottaret, A couple of 'Shots' of something will soften you up a bit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, for when i hit something?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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skimottaret, Yep, the Bar, to celebrate your passing! 
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, i like the pre and post drinks idea, perhaps they would give me a better handicap time.
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skimottaret, Honestly, i'm told, train, train, train until you can't walk down the street without dodging people like gates.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, yeah that seems to be the reality. a few comments on this site have been along the lines of a competent basi 3 should have no problems but when i talked to a few people who passed the eurotest, they rolled their eyes and said the TT is really really tough if you dont have a child racing background.
out for some training in dec in tignes so should start to get a feeling for how difficult...
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Is the Test Technique the same as the Eurotest?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, TT is Slalom and CaPA is G.S.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, Test Technique is a slalom, Eurotest is GS.
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rob@rar, with the TT you can teach in France as a stagiere (trainee) the Eurotest is required for BASI 1 ISTD
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You know it makes sense.
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skimottaret, I get the impression that the people doing TT training in Tignes in the autumn don't typically have race backgrounds. They do train all autumn though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rjs, Do you know anyone doing a course? most people i have talked to are just going straight for eurotest and not bothering with TT and doing as many weeks as they can. I however probably wont get to Eurotest standard so will just do the odd week here and there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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skimottaret, could well be sharing the pain/exhilaration with you . Talking to Phil he put the standard a little higher than your current information.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, i am booked for the dec 1-9 course, are you thinking about the SS course as well?
What does Phil recon in terms of standard.... I dont have a clue.
One thing i do know is that all the Merible GAP people who passed their 3's last year with ESF all failed the TT at Les Menuires 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, My feeling was just from talking to French trainees on the T bars. I don't know anyone who has taken the test, and don't know how many of those doing the training pass.
The main groups in Tignes in the past have been with UCPA. Talking to Emma last year she was looking forward to being able to teach slalom as well as GS, so if there is enough demand there may be more British groups in future.
What is the pass mark for it ? Either percentage or FIS points.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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rjs, pass is like eurotest 20% against the opener for men 25% for women, but the difficulty / reality of that is what i dont have a clue about....
UCPA??? Emma is running the SS course on the 1st of dec and another one as well.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| rjs, pass is like eurotest 20% against the opener for men 25% for women, but the difficulty / reality of that is what i dont have a clue about.... |
I guess it all depends on who is pacesetting. Looking at the results from the Easter GB races winner +20% is the kind of result that only the kids who are training full time are getting.
Description here. The training courses are only on the French site here, the entry standard is shown as Vermeil in the Chamois.
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| Emma is running the SS course on the 1st of dec and another one as well. |
I know, I think it will need a bit more than two weeks of training to get up to the standard.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rjs, thanks for the UCPA link interesting... the vermeil as an entry standard seems to tie up with what easyski said once that you are ready for TT if you are consistently getting vermeil (+35%) and occasionally getting Gold (+17%)
Definately will take more than two weeks, the snoworks course will be my first toe in the water and i am figuring on a few more years to get up to standard....will enter a few timed races in mottaret this season to see how i go..
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skimottaret and GrahamN - do let me know how you get on.
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skimottaret, yep I'm thinking seriously about that one. (And you should stop messing about and get down to B'wood and get in those gates   )
Wow, that 20% pass mark is a lot higher that I thought...but as rjs says it depends on who's doing the pace setting. If it's intended that the pace setter is something like 0 FIS points (as IIRC the Eurotest is supposed to be), then that's 122 FIS points and that's WAY more than an entry level qualification time. I also saw that number on Pierre-Alain Carrel's (easiski's mate from LDA) web-site, along with the comment that the bar seems to be raised every year at the moment. I've just looked at the current FIS listings and that's faster than the two fastest UK Masters skiers (i.e. those aged 30 or over), and they are I believe ex-British/Irish (dry slope) champions. And, while I understand that slalom is not exactly his best discipline ( ), it's also faster than Finlay Mickel (who actually qualifies as a Master next year)!
So I guess (hope) it's not - or we give up now. If the pace setter is more like a regular FIS competitor though, say 100 points, then that's more doable - but still requires a fair bit of training. Phil told me the standard was something like a good BASI-2 who'd done a bit of racing, which would sound compatible with a level of something like 200-220 FIS points.
BTW - while there's no real equivalence between dry and snow, looking at a guy I'm roughly equivalent to on dry, I'd guess I'd be around 250-270 points at present, and seem to be making some real progress the second half of this summer (but just too late to get the placings I wanted in the summer leagues  ).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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GrahamN, not sure if the times are handicaped to 0 FIS points (which i believe the eurotest is) but the official documentation does say +20%.
it also says "requires a good ski experience (level: chamois de vermeil)" i doubt the weekly slalom (chamois) runs that the ESF do are handicapped back to 0 FIS points or no one would get gold which is +17%......
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Phil told me the standard was something like a good BASI-2 who'd done a bit of racing, which would sound compatible with a level of something like 200-220 FIS points
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That would make the most sense and as it comes from someone in the know i would assume that is where the bar is set....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GrahamN, The current main FIS list will just include the racers that registered before the southern hemisphere deadline, the next one will include the rest. The fastest UK master is Alain, I'm not sure who else you are referring to. The points on the separate FIS Masters list are not comparable to those on the main list.
I think the pacesetters will be significantly better than 100 points, probably 40-50.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rjs, so do your recon that would roughly translate into a good basi 2 with some training?
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skimottaret, The important bit is the training, not the overall level of skiing.
Fitness makes a big difference too, if you don't want to ski on plastic at least use the time at the gym.
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, fair points, thanks
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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rjs, sorry, I wondered if I would get in trouble for some rather hasty research and loose wording . This may have been a 2+2=5 sum. I was looking at the FIS list on Britski and just happened to notice Shane O'Connor's name on the main FIS list, with 141 points, and other than Baxter he seems the fastest on that list. Currently he tops the dry slope Masters' category (17 BARTS points), and although he's not a regular, he's just ahead of David Blackwell (28 BARTS points), who is. Those were the two to whom I was referring; they're both a way ahead of the rest (M.Skedge 51, then Bob Hales at 63 leading the first pack), so I made the rash assumption that they were the fastest (non-pro) Masters - I was excluding Alain Baxter as I was trying to compare with mortals! I see John Williams is at 101 on the FIS Masters' list, which I initially thought gives hope for the rest of us, but you say that's non-comparable - so what's the deal there, separate seed lists and reference points for the different agegroups?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, I just wasn't sure which lists you were looking at.
Shane O'Connor has enough of a recent race record on snow that his points make a good benchmark. Martin Skedge is on the 8th 2007 FIS list but with a single result loading.
The Masters' list is separate because there isn't enough overlap between competitors in Masters races and those in normal FIS races. In the past there were also no race penalties for Masters races which caused the gap to widen between the two lists, though this is slowly changing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, GrahamN, Easiski is dead right, the test technique is entry level and thus is not deperately hard. The Eurotest is another story altogether.
Current values are pacesetters time +18% for men and +24% for women. A 20% pass rate seems very high to me, in recent times it's more like less than 10%. As an example in Les Contamines last year over 2 days, with 130 potential candidates 3 passed on the first day and 2 the second. For interest one of the main pacesetters in France is Gregory Guignier from ENSA, in the latest FIS list he has 53 points in SL and 56 in GS.
As far as hints go, make sure that you train hard to feel comfortable on the course, on the day of the race make sure you use the inspection properly (shedloads of good skiers make stupid mistakes on the transitions to the flats, it's here were you make it or break it) and above all don't get stressed up. Staying relaxed is the key to skiing to your full potential in this kind of event.
Good luck to you both.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, were the other 125 candidates just muppets or is it desperately hard?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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slikedges, No, it's pretty tough
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, so, quite difficult
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Tell you what I'd like to know - how much more difficult is the 'entry-level' test technique slalom to pass than the Aosta Valley Validation giant slalom?
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LARGEZOOKEEPER, I think we have our percentages mixed up....
for the Eurotest the pass times are as you state +18% and +24% against the pacesetter
for the TT the pass time is +20% and +25%. What isnt clear is if the times are handicapped back to 0 FIS points or are directly against the Pacesetter. I thought the Eurotest was against 0 FIS points but i cant believe the TT is....
i didnt mean to indicate 20% is the average pass rate. for Eurotest i have heard a typical pass rate is 12% and as you say can be much lower.
Any ideas on pass rates for the Test Technique as opposed to Eurotest??
We seem to have two schools of thought from people in the know. Easyski quite rightly says it is the minimum standard to enter the ENSA training programme and shouldnt be too difficult with some training. Phil Smith is quoted as saying you need to be a good BASI 2 with some training. Hmmmmm......
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It doesn't matter whether you fancy the idea or not
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easyski quite right, i dont fancy the gym 3-4 times a week for 3 months prior to the season but do it so will get out on the plastic. My only worry is that the gym doesnt cause broken thumbs....
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skimottaret, Does it matter ? You have booked to go to Tignes now anyway and will be able to see the standard of the people in the lanes around you.
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FAQ
and you should stop messing and pull the trigger on Dec. 1 