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1.2M Brits / 2% of Population Went Skiing & Boarding in 2006 / 7 Season

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Tour operators organized 68% of all trips. The remaining 32% traveled independently.

France was the number one destination, accounting for 37% of total visits.

Switzerland was up.

Austria, Italy, Andorra and Bulgaria were all down slightly:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2668


http://skirebel.com/magazine/2007/08/02/crystal-ski-industry-report-unveils-continued-growth-in-uk-market/


Meanwhile, Crystal had a dig at the BBC and its allegedly 'alarmist' reporting during the past Winter season:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/article2109390.ece


You can download Crystal's full report on the season here. It is an excellent read, packed with stats:

http://emag.digitalpc.co.uk/shg/crs_report07.asp


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 4-08-07 14:45; edited 1 time in total
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Whitegold wrote:
Meanwhile, Crystal had a dig at the BBC and its allegedly 'alarmist' reporting during the past Winter season:

They weren't the only ones. I recall similar doom and gloom here on snowHeads...
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rob@rar, Please Ignore Twisted Evil

'Its'' game is now old-hat !

DG-sans-emotion?
Toofy Grin
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Whitegold wrote:

Meanwhile, Crystal had a dig at the BBC and its allegedly 'alarmist' reporting during the past Winter season:

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/article2109390.ece



here is James Cove's Sunday, 17 December 2006 report from the BBC

Quote:

the picture is not as bleak as some say, with the high resorts having good conditions on some runs.

I am in the Swiss resort of Verbier and the open runs have good snow and more are set to open this weekend helped by artificial snow.

"We have many new snow-making cannons across our slopes and this has helped greatly," Pierre-Yves Deleze told the BBC.

"Some snow is forecast to fall next week and then everything should be OK. If not though, it will make us more nervous for Christmas."

'Higher ground'

The best skiing is to be found on the high resorts with glaciers: Tignes and Les Deux Alpes in France; Zermatt, Saas Fee and Verbier in Switzerland, and Obergurgl in Austria.


And the BBC's report from 4 January 2007

Quote:

Snow finally blankets the Alps
By James Cove
BBC News, the Alps

Heavy snow is now falling across the Alps giving a much needed boost to the winter tourism industry. All the resorts are getting the benefit with snow falling down to 800 metres (2,600ft). This Christmas was one of the worst on record with very poor snowfalls.

The economic consequences for some resorts were terrible as some people cancelled their holidays and stayed at home. A handful of people have even called off their holidays later in the season on the strength of poor snow so far this winter. Many resorts could not open fully, while others relied on artificial snow.

Heavy snowfall

"We've had well over a quarter of a metre of snow in the past 24 hours and winter has now well and truly begun," Julian Griffiths, the director of the Verbier Ski School, European Snowsport told the BBC News website.


What was that Crystal was saying, the BBC misrepresented the lack of snow and then didn't report snow when it fell? I think the BBC should think of a defamation suit against Crystal who are just spinning because they have had a bad season.

In fairness to Crystal this is a Times report and I suspect they are conflating a lot of factoids because the Times agenda is to knock the BBC and boost Sky TV.
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Quote:

They weren't the only ones. I recall similar doom and gloom here on snowHeads...


My wife is a member of snowheads for longer than me and i distinctly remember her telling about all the negativity going on.

The bottom line is it was a poor year but we all skied and look forward to a better season which is rapidly approaching
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Whitegold wrote:,
Quote:

You can download Crystal's full report on the season here. It is an excellent read, packed with stats:


That is interesting, thanks for the link.

snowHead
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Just caught up with this. It's just the usual Crystal propaganda to ram home the message that they think they are number 1 - they do it every year and the media lap it up because it is presented with authority. There is NO WAY the market grew last season - ask anybody with an interest or eyes or half a brain. The true penetration of independent travel eroding the tour op share is downplayed in the report. The AC Neilson figures "interpreted". No other tour op agrees with it. For some reason this is the second time the report has been posted on S'heads - fascinating.
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Bode Swiller, it would indeed be interesting to read a similar but less partial summary. Don't know that there is one, though.
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Bode Swiller, (Cough) La Plagne Montalbert skier days grew by nearly 4% last season. In Montalbert the locals claim all the growth was from the UK market. UK retailers have, according to two I spoke to, not had a good year. Some niche retail firms have had a very hard year and more consolidation is due. Bizareley extras like magazine sales and appear to be affected worse than equipment suppliers.

Martin Bell posted the Crystal report the day after it came out. Lively discussion followed.......

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=672339&highlight=crystal#672339

La Plagne figures here
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=646119&highlight=plagne#646119
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Lizzard, there isnt. The Crystal report is seen as the authority and often quoted by the press but it really is flawed/skewed in many areas.

boredsurfin, doesn't surprise me that a snow sure mega resort area would grow in a season like the last. Tumbleweed blew through many lower small resorts and the chalets of many small operators.

Most small indy retailers are in a financial mess, compounded by a poor summer outdoor season. I've spoken to distrbutors who privately tell you they are 30-40 even 50% down on pre-season sales. Ski manufactuers like Atomic have let many staff go. There is a quiet fiscal carnage going on out there yet the mighty Crystal want you to believe that they are riding high.
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Bode Swiller, So great bargains soon to be had in all areas of Ski retail Toofy Grin
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Looking above one can deduce that:
Montalbert=a snow sure mega resort

Note to self: Sell my 6 chalets in La Rosiere and buy in Montalbert wink
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
Looking above one can deduce that:
Montalbert=a snow sure mega resort

Note to self: Sell my 6 chalets in La Rosiere and buy in Montalbert wink


Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Frosty the Snowman, obviously it isn't a mega resort rolling eyes but is connected to a mega area. I wouldn't sell up in La Rosiere as I hear it is the world's number 1 on every possible criteria. Must be true, I saw it here.
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Bode Swiller, I am still not sure how Crystal actually measure those who travel independently to resorts around the world, and their analysis of their prices versus LoCo carriers was self-serving tosh IMHO. And of course Crystal would be unlikely not to big-up their own business in a public document. Or is it just that the ski industry oscillates between bizarre optimism and deedless pessimism?

In the end however I guess the Market, and the Snow Gods will decide?
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Whitegold,
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Quote:

the Snow Gods will decide
sadly, no. The PR machines decide. For years the power players in the industry have manipulated the facts and used media influence to change buying patterns. If, like Crystal & Thomson, your high yielding / easy-to-fill properties are in France, it would be in your interest to big up France and down play Austria (where your biggest rival Inghams has historically had a stranglehold on all the best properties). You see the lies repeated on here... Austrian resorts to low, poor snow record etc, France snow sure, high, cold blah blah. They never mention what's under the snow or the effect of being further inland. Even well-travelled national newspaper ski writers repeat the mantra. There's lies, damn lies and statistics.
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bh1, Laughing
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Whitegold, i'd be interested in if there has been an increase in long haul destinations. there seemed more europeans in Whistler this year than last.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
Frosty the Snowman, obviously it isn't a mega resort rolling eyes but is connected to a mega area.


So long as you don't mind spending half your day on chairlifts Shocked Blush
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gwaelod, as long as they are padded. Point is that Montalbert's business would be up because punters would at least be sure of snow albeit a bit of a ride away.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
gwaelod, as long as they are padded. Point is that Montalbert's business would be up because punters would at least be sure of snow albeit a bit of a ride away.


We have been to Montchavin (bit across, very slightly lower than Montalbert) 3 times in the last 2 winters but looking at next winter we have booked with kids for first week of January in Plan Peisey (75metres form Vanoise express. Yippee) and have flights booked for a short break in March. Venue to be decided but highly likely Les Arcs/La Plagne.

We are also in the process of buying. We love Montchavin. Its a beautiful French village. At 8.30am the kids are fo to school and the shops are open. I love the palce hoever I am not sure about the effects on global warming (sorry I said it Sad ) and we are due to complete on a place in Arc 2000 that will be completed for 2008/2009. 2 storey/3 bed apartment. Its snow sure, high and the lanchettes chairlift will be outside the front door.

Given the choice our heart will always will be in Montchavin but I wanted the snow so we are buying in a concrete souless area. Montalbert was just a little to out for us from the region but in saying that I 100% agree with you as even with alleged lousy snow this (sorry said that to Sad ) by going high we had fantastic skiing snowHead
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rob and sharon wrote:
Whitegold, i'd be interested in if there has been an increase in long haul destinations. there seemed more europeans in Whistler this year than last.



Rob / Sharon -- The report indicates that UK trips to North America continued to increase slightly during 2006 / 2007. Your observation appears to ring true.
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Bode Swiller wrote:
Just caught up with this. It's just the usual Crystal propaganda to ram home the message that they think they are number 1 - they do it every year and the media lap it up because it is presented with authority. There is NO WAY the market grew last season - ask anybody with an interest or eyes or half a brain. The true penetration of independent travel eroding the tour op share is downplayed in the report. The AC Neilson figures "interpreted". No other tour op agrees with it. For some reason this is the second time the report has been posted on S'heads - fascinating.



What are your quantitative stats to support these qualitative observations?

How big do you quantify the total UK market at?

'No other tour op agrees with [Crystal]' -- can you give us some hard names and dates of tier-1 players who disagree?
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Whitegold wrote:


What are your quantitative stats to support these qualitative observations?

How big do you quantify the total UK market at?

'No other tour op agrees with [Crystal]' -- can you give us some hard names and dates of tier-1 players who disagree?


Good to see Crystal employing people with a grasp of long words. Trouble is, nobody really knows the answer to your first 2 questions there. The Crystal Ski Industry Report is used by many as the best guess there is (because it is presented well and with authority). SKGB use it to help compile their own report, SIGB I think also used it as a basis for part of their report and even Mintel have referred to it in the past - it means that any skewed info just gets recycled until it becomes fact and the press present it as so. It isn't independent and it does cause controversy among the other tour ops and certain national tourist offices mentioned. Period.

Hard names and dates? What are you the Gestapo?
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Bode Swiller wrote:
Whitegold wrote:


What are your quantitative stats to support these qualitative observations?

How big do you quantify the total UK market at?

'No other tour op agrees with [Crystal]' -- can you give us some hard names and dates of tier-1 players who disagree?


Good to see Crystal employing people with a grasp of long words. Trouble is, nobody really knows the answer to your first 2 questions there. The Crystal Ski Industry Report is used by many as the best guess there is (because it is presented well and with authority). SKGB use it to help compile their own report, SIGB I think also used it as a basis for part of their report and even Mintel have referred to it in the past - it means that any skewed info just gets recycled until it becomes fact and the press present it as so. It isn't independent and it does cause controversy among the other tour ops and certain national tourist offices mentioned. Period.

Hard names and dates? What are you the Gestapo?



Your counter-arguments are overly emotional and factless.

The Crystal report remains the leading UK ski industry benchmark.
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Whitegold,

Quote:
The Crystal report remains the leading UK ski industry benchmark


It is written by a TO and for that reason you do have to take its contents with a pinch of salt or our we supposed to take everything written by somebody with a vested interest in one side of the market verbatim Puzzled

Very Happy
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Whitegold, we'll keep this simple and unemotional then rolling eyes . Are you really trying to convince us that the UK market GREW by 3% in season 06/07? Secondly, how is the figure for independent travel arrived at? I vant zee names und zee numbers ja!
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How do they know about independants? I can't remember the last time I used a TO and nobody has asked me where/why I went.

There must be loads of people missing from these stats
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gwaelod wrote:
Whitegold,

Quote:
The Crystal report remains the leading UK ski industry benchmark


It is written by a TO and for that reason you do have to take its contents with a pinch of salt or our we supposed to take everything written by somebody with a vested interest in one side of the market verbatim Puzzled

Very Happy



You are stating the obvious. It goes without saying.

But as the number one market-leader, it is apparent that Crystal has good insight into the market.

For now, Crystal's report remains the best available for the UK market.

Clearly, there is an opportunity here for SnowHeads to promote itself. If you don't agree with it, go ahead and challenge the Crystal report.

Run a poll of a few hundred random UK residents via Survey Monkey. Compute the results, and bang it out in a press release.

Questions might be: did you ski last season? If yes, where? Did you use a TO? And so on.
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Quote:
Secondly, how is the figure for independent travel arrived at? I vant zee names und zee numbers ja!


It states in the Crystal report that in 2006 356,000 peoplel travelled independently of TO's and in 2007 the number was 376,000.

Sorry but how the hell do Crystal know this Puzzled Puzzled
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Quote:
But as the number one market-leader, it is apparent that Crystal has good insight into the market


A very Biased insight

Quote:
If you don't agree with it, go ahead and challenge the Crystal report


As above.

It states in the Crystal report that in 2006 356,000 peoplel travelled independently of TO's and in 2007 the number was 376,000.

Sorry but how the hell do Crystal know this Puzzled

Quote:
Questions might be: did you ski last season? If yes, where? Did you use a TO? And so on.


Once with TO and once as independent (first time doing this, sold on the idea. Using TO next January with kids but after that never again). This involved flight to Geneva, hire car over internet, hotel etc.. How did Crystal make me one of the 376,000... Puzzled

Very Happy
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gwaelod wrote:
Quote:

How did Crystal make me one of the 376,000...


It does say at the start of the report where the statistics were obtained from, and they do say the figures are not absolute. If no other organisation produces a report it is going to be "the" industry report, biased or not.

I have no doubt some of it is guesswork slanted towards Crystal/Thomson/Tui. Who can challenge it?

snowHead
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Sage wrote:
gwaelod wrote:
Quote:

How did Crystal make me one of the 376,000...


It does say at the start of the report where the statistics were obtained from, and they do say the figures are not absolute. If no other organisation produces a report it is going to be "the" industry report, biased or not.

I have no doubt some of it is guesswork slanted towards Crystal/Thomson/Tui. Who can challenge it?

snowHead


In reading Easyjets 6 months interim report to March 2007 then one has to have doubts about Crystals reports figures Puzzled
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Whitegold, so you work for Crystal?
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gwaelod, the report says there's around a million low cost flights to ski airports (presumably Geneva, Zurich, Turin, Munich, Salzburg, Bergamo, Lyon etc etc). If you assume that the majority of indy skiers fly these days and use low cost, are they really saying that perhaps 20-30% of the occupants on these flights are all skiers and boarders? All a bit far fetched to me.

Anyway, whilst in the gym I got thinking about all this (saddo) and concluded that it isn't a proper industry report (well, not like any from any other industry I've seen) and that's because there is no substantive vital statistics... fiscal matters mainly. There was price cutting carnage going on after the press reports dissed the season, charter flights "consolidated" all over the place, whole properties taken off sale. None of this stuff is reflected. Growing by 3% (there's a laugh) is all very well but not terribly impressive if at a huge loss.
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Bode Swiller, So get on and produce a report, you appear to have a good grasp of the actualite of last season, you could have it published by Friday Toofy Grin
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boredsurfin, Ease up on the pressure, I'm inventing facts 'n figures as fast as I can
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boredsurfin, what is an actualite?
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Bode Swiller wrote:
gwaelod, the report says there's around a million low cost flights to ski airports (presumably Geneva, Zurich, Turin, Munich, Salzburg, Bergamo, Lyon etc etc). If you assume that the majority of indy skiers fly these days and use low cost, are they really saying that perhaps 20-30% of the occupants on these flights are all skiers and boarders? All a bit far fetched to me.


I know it is only circumstantial but I can onlyy go by what my eyes saw. Having been on a 3.30pm FULL flight on a Wednesday afternoon from Bristol to Geneva in mid March I would says the figure is neaerer 100% Very Happy and having been in Geneva airport on a Sunday morning then 100% seems fairly accurate Smile Haven't Easyjet increased the number of flights this year into ski regions and the number of airports they are flying to? They would not have done that on the basis of 17% load factors. They know their market and they know it is and has grown by more than 5%.

What about those that drive. Never done it myself but am committed wink in 2008/2009 to driving. Lots of people on here seem to drive. No mention of that method of transport Puzzled
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