 Poster: A snowHead
|
I've read numerous threads that relate to this, but would still like some advice from you all out there. I'm 41, with only a couple of weeks skiing, and I intend doing this current season. Apart from any general advice, I would particularly welcome suggestions for a resort and any regarding available seasonal accommodation.
Resortwise my thoughts so far have been along the lines that I will be suited by a large piste as I'm not yet in a position to venture off piste, although obviously I would hope to be doing so by the end of the season. Obviously the Three Valleys and the Paradiski stand out in this respect, but I'm sure I'm just being very shallow by being tempted by them. Away from the slopes, I would like somewhere with a reasonable number of Brits in a similar situation (which has really made me think mainly of France). A friend has recommended Serre Chevalier, any thoughts on this or any other resort?
With regard to accommodation I've read that, unless you can arrange it privately (please feel free to pimp away) it's far cheaper to look for it in resort prior to the season rather than book online; is November too late to be looking? As I'm going to the PSB, I have been considering looking for accommodation (assuming I get nothing sorted before then) after that, or, if that is too late, perhaps before it. Any more thoughts? Should I be trying to sort seasonal accommodation well in advance; would there be much available if I visited a resort in say September, or would that be too early for accommodation to be advertised locally?
Any more thoughts, advice or pointers gratefully received.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
johnnyboy,
As far as which resort to choose, I've only done seasons in Val Thorens so can't give un biased advice at all! I'm sure that whereever you go, you'll have a great time anyway!
The main reason for replying was that from a seasonal accomodation point of view, I rent out 7 apartments (2 in Les Arcs and 5 in Val Thorens) to seasonnaires/ tour ops and all of mine are pretty much contracted for next season. I'd suggest that getting your accom. sorted out as early as possible is best just so that you can be sure it's done. Plus, I should imagine the best stuff goes early on.
When I did my second season in VT - long before I had my own apartments there, I found it very difficult to find an apartment through the local estate agents in the August and on a subsequent trip in the October - they were reluctant to rent to a young English girl, even though I had my Dad with me. In the end I got a recommendation from a French friend in VT, tro his friend who owned one of the agencies. Of course, I was a lot younger then and that might be specific to VT.
Also worth being aware that most seasonal lets are done on a full payment up front basis. (again, might be particular to VT)
Good luck with it anyway - I'm sure you'll have a great time where ever you end up - I'm very jealous!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
You seem to be under the impression that the only skiing available on planet Earth is in France. Although a lot of Brits go there it really is the bottom of the heap if you want to do a season.
Broaden your horizons - Most of France is a dump (Serre Chevalier in particular). OK for a weeks holiday, but a season is a completely different proposition. Think Canada or Switzerland if you want to do a season - at least you'll be able to get around and see a little more of the world.
Have a look at http://www.natives.co.uk and get some advice there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Soldeu ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
Most of France is a dump (Serre Chevalier in particular).
|
This is a quite breathtaking piece of arrogant piffle.
johnnyboy, if you're looking for apartments, the best time will be either now or November (ie when the agencies are open and there are people in resort). You will find 3Vs and Espace Killy outrageously expensive (eg 12,000€ for a two-bed apt below Le Praz). Resorts with plenty of piste skiing and affordable accommodation would include Alpe d'Huez, 2Alpes and, yes, Serre Chevalier. I've spent three seasons in Serre Che and enjoyed all of them, so *childish raspberry* to clueless telford_mike, I say.
Of those resorts I'g go for ADH or 2Alpes, because your season pass in either one allows you unlimited skiing in both, plus a number of days in Serre Che and the Milky Way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
What about basing yourself in a valley town with good links to several different resorts (assuming you have a car)? Bourg St Maurice is within easy commute of a vast quantity of skiing including Espace Killy (40 minutes), Paradiski (7 minutes by funicular), St Foy (20 minutes), La Rosiere/La Thuile (10 minutes), Trois Vallees (50 minutes). Valley prices will be cheaper than mountain prices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
johnnyboy,
Are you needing to work there.... ? and I don't agree that French is not the place the stay but Austria and switzer4land do have a lot to offer as well I know BC has rented for a couple of seasons there and he wil tell you he has had huge blast ski-wise. Big envy from me... Maybe he will be along soon to add his pennies..!!
Most of the big resorts like St A, Val, Verbier will have a huge Brit community, or in St A's case, Aussies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
rob@rar, Actually carless at the moment; lost my company car when I packed the job in, but I'm so well situated in Bristol that I haven't felt the need to get another one yet. I think I would prefer to be in a resort though anyway.
JT, As long as I manage to meet people there, I doubt I will work.
Lizzard, I had a week in Alpe d'Huez this year, and that is still very much in the mix, although, despite what has gone on in another thread, I have been a little put off by the possible lack of suitable runs in L2A (please feel free to correct me).
telford_mike, I would prefer to be this side of the pond as I will be coming back to the UK for a wedding mid season, so I have more or less ruled out Canada.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
johnnyboy, had you asked me for a preference this time last year, I wouldn't have hesitated in recommending ADH over 2Alpes. However, having worked last season in 2Alpes,I am converted, and I'd say they are both equally good. You should find reasonably priced (for in-resort, anyway) accommodation in either, but start lookng soon, because it can be difficult to find places available all season. You should think about bringing a car, as you wouldn't make the most of your lift pass otherwise - you get unlimited skiing in both resorts plus a number of days in Serre Chevalier, Montgenevre/Claviere, Sauze d'Oulx, Sestriere and Puy St Vincent. It would be a pity to spend the season here and not take advantage, but you couldn't do it on public transport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
johnnyboy, I wouldn't worry too much about there being a large area of piste skiing for your level as your level will improve quickly and you will want to explore the off piste. You will quickly see all the pistes in just about any resort anyway. I certainly would not be put off by the runs in L2A.
On a recent trip to Serre Che there seems to be alot of accommodation advertised in the supermarket postings etc. which may well be cheaper than from the agencies.
I would agree with telford_mike, that there are other places than France to go personally I would try and learn a bit of the language for wherever you dont want to be only speaking to other Brits.
He speaks a load of cobblers though about Serre Che its a great place.
I don't know what he has against it but you might say that Wengen is a lousy place as its stuffed full of English pony club types who think they own the place 'cos Daddy always went there. There is one boring view of the Eiger and they all sit there jealous watching the slush melt wishing they were up with some decently steep and snow sure skiing at Murren.
(Don't actually dislike Wengen but its possible to give anywhere a bad name, not a keen 3v man myself)
PS lift passes bought before the beginning of the season are often a lot cheaper than when the season starts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
johnnyboy, you can buy our Serre Che lift pass for 540 euros (approx) if you buy before the 1st Dec,
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Discount on AHD/2Alpes as well, if bought before Dec 15.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
johnnyboy, settle on LDA, buy Easiski's flat that she has for sale as the mortgage on that is bound to be less than the cost of a season rent, live in it this winter then let it out to tenants thereafter. There you are - sorted 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Excellent advice eng_ch!
I'd agree with the "sort out the accommodation early" sentiment.
johnnyboy - I'll put a shout in for Morzine - which has a large British community and affordable seasonal accommodation. The locals are friendly!
Oopalley has a place in Morzine which she rents out to seasonaires - www.oopalley.co.uk - if you're on your own then it's a good way of meeting people. Toiletduckuk stayed there last season - so you could ask him what the place is like.
Someone I know may also have a small, centrally located apartment available for the season in Morzine if you thoughts turn in that direction.
Verbier is another good choice - you could always go and work for parlor!
And given the state of the Pound / Dollar - you'd be foolish not to look over the pond. Whilster, in particular, has a Platinum pass, which is a combined season pass / all the lessons you can eat deal. I can put you in contact with people who go out most seasons for this - again PM me if you want me to put you in contact.
One thing to think about is what you want to do with your season. Working or having a lessons can add structure that you might otherwise miss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Don't forget Japan 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| eng_ch wrote: |
| johnnyboy, settle on LDA, buy Easiski's flat that she has for sale as the mortgage on that is bound to be less than the cost of a season rent, live in it this winter then let it out to tenants thereafter. There you are - sorted |
Shouldn't that be the advice to Easiski? (that she let it out to seasonare/tenents instead of trying to sell it?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
abc, she's already rejected the idea AIUI
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
Is everyone who disagrees with you clueless, or do they merely have a different opinion?
Whilst you may be very skilled at blowing childish internet raspberries, you seem to be incapable of engaging in a reasonable debate (dear telford_mike - why do you think Serre Chevalier is a dump?).
Tip for the OP - watch out for those with a vested interest in France (or anywhere else). There are loads of them on here, and they have their best interests at heart - not yours. |
Bit harsh. I think it's the sweeping generalisation that most of France is a dump that was odd. Plus your cynicism about people only having their own best interests at heart - so far there doesn't seem to have been much pimping on this thread. In fact, the lack of pimping is something I like about this forum (and I know I pimp my own wares in my signature but that is a forum approved method and subtle I think).
It intrigues me that this "those who like France vs those who don't" divide seems to exist - you see it on Natives loads too.
It's almost as though, if anyone states a preference for France then they get slated by a whole other bunch of people who say France is crap and they should broaden their horizons and assume they are suggesting they ONLY like France. Not saying that's what you're doing but just commenting on something that seems to crop up a lot.
Of course, as I said in my post above, I'm biased due to having done 2 seasons in VT!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
Is everyone who disagrees with you clueless, or do they merely have a different opinion?
|
Simple question, is calling all of France "a dump" qualify as "clueless"???
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
telford_mike, you posted the statement "most of France is a dump", a sweeping generalisation unsupported by any rational argument at all. Had you indicated the presence of a thought process behind your 'opinion', you might have stimulated some debate. As it is, you got a well-deserved raspberry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Tip for the OP - watch out for those with a vested interest in France (or anywhere else). There are loads of them on here, and they have their best interests at heart - not yours. |
Hope that criticism doesn't include me. I am completely disinterested in johnnyboy's choice of destination. I have no financial interest in where he stays, and the addition of one extra person to the skiing available in the Tarentaise for the times when I'm there will have no impact on me one way or the other. My recommendation of BSM was based purely on the fact that it puts you close to several of the world's largest ski areas at a price which might be more reasonable than being based in a high altitude resort. That advice might not have been what the OP was looking for, but it was offered in an honest way.
If people get accused of biased advice perhaps they will stop offering it. That wouldn't be good for snowHeads, which I think is the best source of impartial advice that is available, despite telford_mike's sweeping accusation. Mike, perhaps you'd like to substantiate your criticism?
[/rant]
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Thanks for all your feedback so far, sorry to have generated such "heated debate".
telford_mike, I have more or less decided on France for a number of reasons, but I appreciate that it may not be everyone's cup of tea. With regard to any bias affecting advice, I did ask people to feel free to pimp away, although I'm not quite so naive that I wouldn't get 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions of a resort just because 1 person with an apartment to let there said it was great!
rob@rar, Many thanks for bothering to post, given how "disinterested" you are  . Much appreciated, and was in no way taken as biased.
Lizzard, Have taken on board what you have said, and if I do opt for Alpe d'Huez,L2A or Serre Chevalier I will seriously consider taking a car.
Still open to suggestions guys and gals, and although I say France is currently top of the list doesn't mean I wouldn't consider elsewhere, but probably only in Europe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
johnnyboy, I'm disinterested, but not uninterested
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
johnnyboy,
MAybe you should PM BernardC. He has done exactly what you are thinking of. He is based near BSM and uses a car to get up and down the valley. His desire is the do as much off-piste as poss.... and he has many like-minded contacts but if you want to get involved ion a community 1st and formost, develop the skiing then I'd put Tignes/Val near the very top. If you become involved with locals and seasonaires, you'll almost inevitably see places that punters never see during the course of the season and almost anywhwere will have it secret stashes for those that know. You might not be able to get there from the lifts and you will have to up you game ski-wise somewhat, but being there for more than 5 weeks should do this anyway.
ADH is good with a car because you have ADH itself to explore...which is vast...L2A down the road, ditto Le Grave and Serrre C a bit further.
All those places wil have masses to explore with like minded people, although the skiers might be a bit good..!!!!
I don't know PDS so will leave to others to extol.
Personally, the 3V's don't inspire me, but then I have haven't been back for years to see what is about....but it will have a lot of Brits who like mileage skiing.
Verbier is a good choice if you can get accomodation cheaply enough and might have to park yourself down the valley in Le Chable or somewhere. the skiing will fit the bill.
Zermatt..as in all things will come at a premium...
St A is run by Aussies ski bums... which may or may not be to your taste.
And thats only the big resorts that lots of peeps gravitate. Lots here go to Whistler for their 2 weeks and there are a few resident  too.
If I were able to do this next year ... I'd head for BSM and suss out that whole valley but then I wouldn't touch many pistes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
johnnyboy - whatever you do I'd recommend taking a car. A season is a long time in resort and we benefitted by being able to get out of town - not only to visit other resorts, but also to do non-skiing stuff like hang out by the lake in Annecy.
I'll take up the PDS mantel, as I've chosen to base my skiing there.
Lots of good intermediate pistes (which is what you probably need right now). A nice range of off-piste - from easy peezy to trouser soiling. Easy to get to and from. Excellent seasonaire scene - which is generally inclusive (SMALLZOOKEEPER always complains how competitive the Chamonix scene is). Good range of ski schools (including some British ones if that's important to you). Good access to other resorts - Chamonix, Flaine, Megeve are all within an hour - Verbier is a couple of hours.
Morzine seems to have a better seasonaire scene than Avoriaz - primarily, I think, because there are more chalets - with commensurately more staff. Chatel also has a good scene - although, personally, I think "my" side of the PDS is better. But I would say that
telford_mike is welcome to think what he thinks about France. I completely disagree with his assertion that you can write off most of France as "a dump" in skiing terms. But, hey ho, that's his perogative and I'm sure he has his reasons. There's room for everyone. (And one less person on "my" slopes!).
One thing I certainly agree with is the sentiment that says that you shouldn't ski in one place to the exclusion of all others. But it's equally as bad to base all your skiing in Verbier, say, as it is to base it all in Morzine.
It's also easy to write one place off based on your own needs. I must admit to hating Alpe d'Huez. I have no rational basis for doing so, but just find the skiing there boring and had a (in skiing terms) extremely naff holiday there (great company though). But that was until I'd skied off the back...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
DaveC, Bit more info. I ski rather than board, I've not got the neatest of styles, but definitely look for steeps over gentle trails even now, and more so with a few more weeks under my belt, don't do scenery at all, do do beer though!
I must admit I hadn't given the PdS a lot of consideration compared to some of the higher resorts , sounds as though it's worth a closer look.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| DaveC wrote: |
| ...I wouldn't say it's a particularly steep resort... |
As with most resorts, it depends where you look and what you consider to be steep.
It's certainly the case, that if you want stuff over 40 degrees then you're either going to need to hike for it - or go elsewhere. But, as I say, steep is a relative term.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
telford_mike, I feel lucky to live in one of the most beautifull places in the world. Here is a picture of my gaff in the heart of the Serre Che.
How come we have such opposing views. (BTW I don't have any vested interest in the place).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
chris, each to their own I suppose, but 'dump' is hardly appropriate. (and yes, I DO have a vested interest but have actually spent as much time there before I bought it than since.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
chris - what a hole
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| DaveC wrote: |
nightshift, what do you post on natives under? |
I'm nightshift over there too but I don't post an awful lot - lurk a bit, read some of the banter and if a VT or apartment rental question comes up, I'll try to post a helpful answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
chris,
God that looks awful - can't quite remember getting that lovely view from my shoe-box in Villeneuve!
OK since a few people have asked, here are my experiences of skiing in France:
Started off in Valmorel in the early nineties. Nice place - newly built, no high-rise buildings. Kids were young then, so very reliant on ski-school. Day 1 and I come across daughter number 2 lost on the mountain, and in tears. Ski school instructor had 'lost' her. Went to ski school office, got money back, gave them a bit of the Agincourt treatment. This would never, ever happen in Switzerland or in any other first-world ski destination. Shame really, I liked Valmorel.
Next, Pra Loup. What an unbelieveable dump. High-rise buildings, antiquated lift system and nothing to do in the evening. Just dreadful.
Next, Montgenevre. I well remember waiting in an endless queue to get lift passes, ski school for the kids, carre neige etc. I think the whole lot cost me around £800 for the family. The woman who I paid didn't even smile as she took my money. I have never felt less like a customer in my whole life.
Next, Serre Chevalier. Stayed in Villeneuve in a block of flats. Apartment was stated to be suitable for 6, but really it would have been overcrowded with 4. Again nothing to do in the evenings (I think there was a bar called 'Le Frog'). I remember thinking - 'can the nation that built Paris really have created this dump?'
3 Valleys next. High hopes for this one. Unfortunately my apartment in Mottaret was even smaller than the one in Serre Chevalier - and the kids were a year older so even less room. The skiing didn't live up to expectations either - OK there's lots of kms of piste, but that's hardly the whole story. London has lots of kms of roads, but you wouldn't recommend it for a motoring holiday, would you? Everything was gridlocked! Went over to Val Thorens / Les Menuires one day - OMG who the hell designed these places??
I would never, ever go back to France for a skiing holiday. I've never had a good holiday there and I don't think I ever would. Maybe my expectations are too high? I want a nice place to stay, lots of skiing without crowds or queues, nice scenery unspoilt by profit-hungry property developers, and plenty to do in the evenings. I can get all of this in Switzerland, Austria and Canada, usually at a more competitive price than the French can offer.
I honestly think the British have been brain-washed into thinking that France in the only place to go for a skiing holiday. Certainly that was my impression when I started taking the family. In reality I believe the French are taking us all for granted, and palming us off with poor accommodation, rubbish ski school, non-existent night life and utterly non-existant resort ambience. Then they have the cheek to charge a premium price!
Think about it guys.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| I honestly think the British have been brain-washed into thinking that France in the only place to go for a skiing holiday. |
Although France is the top ski destination, by a margin of almost 2 to 1 UK skiers choose other countries as destinations. I think the numbers prove that the British really haven't been brain-washed into thinking France is the only place to go.
Is your experience of France limited to five separate weeks during school holidays?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I honestly think the British have been brain-washed into thinking that France in the only place to go for a skiing holiday.
|
In the summer I teach lots of school kids, preparing for their upcoming skiing trip in the winter. Over the past 4 years, I have been speaking to more and more teachers and team leaders who are now taking their schoolkids over the pond to the USA and Canada, having being fed up of the level of service and bang for buck they don't get in France.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| In reality I believe the French are taking us all for granted, and palming us off with poor accommodation, rubbish ski school, non-existent night life and utterly non-existant resort ambience. Then they have the cheek to charge a premium price! |
Try Megève (but avoid the local ESF, obviously).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I've travelled extensively in France and am a committed Francophile but must agree that the skiing experience is not always great. Apart from the truly ghastly architecture of most modern resorts (wild horses would not persuade me to stay in either Tignes or Val Thorens) the food is often mediocre, the service surly and the general experience does not feel like value for money. It was a real treat going to Switzerland, after a long gap, this year - I shall be returning! (That said, I've enjoyed staying in Morzine and Vaujany, and can cope with taking the rough as well as the smooth in the Trois Vallees. I've never been to Les Deux Alpes and, even if I had, would not presume to criticize it here! )
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
