 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks an interesting read.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Martin Bell, Thank you for putting up a most interesting analysis. I particulatly liked 'The proof' that Tour operators offer cheaper holidays than DIY (pg 22 and 23) 
snowHeads views on those two sets of prices will be most interesting!
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Martin Bell, Thanks for the link, very interesting read, maybe slightly biased figures used when comparing the costs on p22,23 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Martin Bell, Thank you for putting up a most interesting analysis. I particulatly liked 'The proof' that Tour operators offer cheaper holidays than DIY (pg 22 and 23)
snowHeads views on those two sets of prices will be most interesting! |
That was stupid of them as that is so easy to challenge.
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Come on guys be fare!!! They are sending thousands of customers to the slopes, there is absolutely no way that an individual can beat the fantastic buying power of the multi-nationals.
If you believe you can get better value than the TO's you possibly are not in the right profession, you should be a buyer for the TO's. On the other hand you might be insinuating that many / some of the TO's are overcharging a little!!! I am interested what other  's feel might be more accurate.
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On outright price I don't think that I've been able to beat TOs when I've arranged my own trips. But for value-for-money, minimising travel times, flexibility of arrangements and not having to fend off the sales pitch of saisonnaires desperately pushing expensive apres-ski activities I think I win hands down.
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Roy Hockley, I'd tend to agree with you - yes, bargains are possible, but not the norm - and based on the number of threads about budget airlines on here, it seems that they aren't always as amazing as some would like to believe.
Travelling as a single person, it is probably cheaper to go DIY. Travelling with restricitons - i.e. specific dates, or need to book at a certain time, then it may be worth speaking to a TO.
What you will probably get is someone replying that the prices that Crystal have quoted are all wrong, but it would be interesting to see them prove it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I don't necessarily think they are overcharging, they are in business to make a profit and supply and demand comes into it. However I don't agree with their price comparisons and think that you can get better value, cheaper trips DIY. Renting accommodation from private individuals is usually far, far cheaper and there are some great places available. Having said that the price of "budget" airlines next year might make it more challenging. Ferry for me at Easter.
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I think it depends first of all what you are looking for. If you get flights cheap and plan early or are prepared to drive then I think you can beat prices and often end up with better quality accomodation. The key advantage that TOs offer have in terms of pricing are cheap transfers. If you don't want to be packed in to apartments like sardines then TOs are not necessarily a good bet
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Interesting that the 2 dates in Crystals example are Very low season!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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boredsurfin, actually one is low season; the other is over new year.
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Interesting read
Crystal may well be right about standard 7 night/ 6 ski day holidays but I suspect the majority of DIY ers
don't book that sort of trip ... they'll either be doing long weekends or trying to squeeze 7 or 8 days skiing out of a week
I haven't looked in detail but most package long weekends I've seen have been way more expensive than DIY.
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You know it makes sense.
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Roy Hockley, It is often possible to do better DIY than by TO, but only by not using the same flights/accommodation.
Remember that while the TO gets discounts for buying in bulk, they also have to make a profit on top of what they pay, while the DIYer doesn't. But even so, if you are going to use the same flights and the same accommodation, you will usually be hard pressed to beat them.
Stay in a hotel/apartment that isn't big enough to attract the TOs, and fly with a cheap airline, and you will often manage a cheaper price.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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admin, Doesnt everyone ski for 2 weeks at Christmas, I wouldnt thought there would be much demand for a Dec. 29th Departure 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
| admin, Doesnt everyone ski for 2 weeks at Christmas, I wouldnt thought there would be much demand for a Dec. 29th Departure |
New Year week is the peak week of the whole season so the 29th December departure will probably be the highest demand there is (possibly excepting the February half term) .... Christmas week is no where near as popular with Brits.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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£195 and £123 for the flights alone? I've never paid more than £50 return, and often far less - it looks like they've picked the most popular ones they could find
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Roy Hockley wrote: |
| If you believe you can get better value than the TO's you possibly are not in the right profession, you should be a buyer for the TO's. |
Having been involved in contracting for TOs you wouldn't want the job. A winter spent visiting hotels etc. Pay around 15-20K per year and very little skiing. That doesn't mean the contractors are not good. However there is very little margin and remember that tour operators buying power is spread thinly when you consider the resorts. For example they may get 20% off a hotel room, they may get 10% off lift passes. Flights are traded internally with their own or other charter airlines and they often pay more than you will with a budget. 60 UKP per head for example. The biggies where they make up money are club hotels, chalets and transport with a coach transfer costing the operator 5 quid and this is still a big problem for DIY holiday makers.
If you do a hotel holiday or self catering you should have no trouble beating TO list prices. If you are good at negociating or have the right information you can buy hotel rooms, lift passes, ski hire all under the asking price that Crystal are no doubt using in their report. However you won't get huge discounts so DIY or Package the figures tend to come out around the same.
The main advantage of TOs is, as page 23 states, the provision of services in a unified (sometimes  ) manner.
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The TO's pricing thing is utter crud.
We're doing Zermatt for xmas, B&B at £25 a night, £52 Swiss Transfer Pass, and £106 Flight (Easyjet Lpl-Geneva Basel-Lpl). Would we get that over xmas from a tour operator? I think not.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've found if staying in apartments it's much cheaper to DIY. If staying in a hotel, if staying 2 weeks or bringing a small group of 6, the hotel will cut a deal. Esp if driving, there are major savings to be had on DIY. I could accept that if travelling as a couple I might not bother.
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To stick up for the TOs their prices are hard to beat if you take advantage of late booking etc, skip their insurance and have the right sized group and holiday length plans. The bigger your group the more the economics swing towards DIY as things like car hire, appratment rental beome lower per head. They are particualrly competitive for N American charter destinations e.g. Banff where I am almost certain you cannot DIY for what they can do a package for due to flight & transfer economics.
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Roy Hockley, Not convinced for skiing in the US/Canada. We haven't used a TO of 12 years going there, and whenever we have checked the prices, we have done better, and usually ended up with better flights and cheaper lift passes. It might well be true for volume operators in Europe, but I am not sure I would want a really cheap TO holiday in Europe in any case!
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TOs often offer very attractive headline prices, but it's very hard to avoid paying for so many extras (under-occupancy supplements, flight supplements, etc) that the total cost is uncompetitive. This is especially true if you're not travelling in a group of 2 or 4.
Our family - three children, two adults travelling in school holidays - completely fails to match the TOs model. Every year I price up packages and independent travel, and, unless I can find some special cut-price deal with a TO, it's always cheaper to go solo. I'm already booked for Canada next winter, and I'm not using a TO - they were simply too expensive.
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FAQ
