 Poster: A snowHead
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The resort of Abondance, part of the Portes du Soleil ski domain, France is to close its lifts after 15 years of losses. The local council ran the lifts itself last season after failing to find a buyer in the Summer. The village of Abondance is situated at an altitude of 1000m but, after a Winter which delivered little snow below 2000m, it has decided to cut its losses and close.
Abondance is just one of twenty ski resorts in the Haute-Savoie that are said to be 'teetering on the abyss'...
Full report at Piste Hors
Abondance
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's a bloody tragedy.
Couple it with the news from Finland - -Largest Finnish skiing centres to invest EUR 500 million in facilities and the picture is clear.
The ski business is shutting down resorts that are running out of snow and shovelling its cash into areas of the globe (the Himalayas is the other one this week) where the snow may remain for a while.
As I say, it's time for some global IQ, instead of a 'white gold rush'. What a mess.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Pleased? It's a bloody tragedy.
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Really? And there was me thinking you wanted people to reduce their carbon footprint by not going skiing. It's easy to get confused on these interweb forum thingies...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Out of interest, how was the local council "forced" to run the lifts?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, read what I say instead of twisting what I say.
I imagine it's possible to get to Abondance and enjoy its skiing with minimum fuel burn.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
rob@rar, read what I say instead of twisting what I say.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I imagine it's possible to get to Abondance and enjoy its skiing with minimum fuel burn. |
Well, it's possible to enjoy the skiing with minimum fuel burn - if there's snow, you'll have to hike for turns, so no fuel burn out side of human calories.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| rob@rar, read what I say instead of twisting what I say.... |
I must say I am amazed that the locals tolerated a loss-making service for 15 years. As pointed out in the full piste-hors article, it looks like another resort, Céüze, is also due for the chop. Interesting comment about other villages fearing the effects of snow-making on their water-supply. I have sympathy with that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Many resorts all over the alps and in the US / Canada (in fact, all over the world) have been
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'teetering on the abyss'...
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for decades. This is nothing new and not a climate change issue. Abondance was clearly losing money even in the bumper snow years so it's a case of being the wrong resort, wrong place, wrong marketing, whatever... all business issues. If you're brave enough you can go and buy one... I once went to view a whole lift system in Austria that was up for sale for the princely sum of one Schilling - all the buyer had to undertake was a bunch of employment contracts, a modicum of debt and guarantee to update the lifts over a certain time period. It nearly all added up but buying lottery tickets seemed somehow safer. Collectively Snowheads could go buy a bankrupt lift system (which, no doubt will come with a number of properties and maybe a hotel or two), rename it Snowheads Creek and pile all our mates in there to make it profitable once again. Hey, just some mad scribblings this grey, snowless tuesday morning.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Throwing a question out there.
Do any of the new ski resort developments intend to take the lead of places like Aspen with solar powered lift sytems and other 'green' initiatives?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I notice there is a link in that article to another about St Pierre de Chartreuse being under threat. Does anyone know if it opened last season?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I imagine it's possible to get to Abondance and enjoy its skiing with minimum fuel burn. |
"get to"? Does that include "getting UP to", I mean the *up* part??? What's the carbon footprint of running those bloody lifts with nobody on it???
How selective one's focus are beneath the banner of "environment"!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
it was soo close to GVA
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it's not that close, is it? As the crow flies maybe, but not to drive. We went there in summer, as we have friends who bought an apartment there. It's a beautiful village. The local area was always extremely small, and basic, and didn't link to the wider PdS area, but they liked it. It essentially closed a few years ago, and there's been only spasmodic lift opening since. Our friends saw the bumf about our apartment, in a satellite to Les Saisies, and almost bought in the same place, but decided they wanted to be in a "real" village, not a ski resort which was dead out of season. Hence they bought in Abondance. Ironically, we have found it easier to meet people in our place. Not genuine locals, bien sur, but not just Brits, either. Because everyone at the apartments is an "etrangere", even if they're French, people are more open to getting to know each other. Indeed, I am typing this post in Dinant, Belgium, hooked up to the computer of our neighbours in Les Saisies - a French woman married to a Belgian. We have also spent "happy hours" with a Parisian banker, an orthopaedic surgeon from Lyon and a computer specialist from Turin. Great. Our area, though relatively small and unknown in the UK, has long been popular with French visitors and the lift links are expanding. There are still alternatives to the big "usines de ski" but it is sad when the smallest places close.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Anyone else spot the cruel irony? An abundance of snow is just what they didn't have....
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Poster: A snowHead
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Firms go out of business all the time. Survival of the fittest etc.
Reaffirms the assertion that nobody should be investing in Winter-use Alpine property below about 1800m, preferably higher.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well not in Europe anyway.
Still plenty of snow each and every season in lower lying US & Canadian resorts.
And on the island of Hokkaido (where I'm currently holed up) the maximum allowable building footprint you can put on a piece of land is 40%. Why? To facilitate snow clearance.
Hirafu village is 300m above sea level and sees an average of 10m of snowfall between mid-November and mid-May. Annupuri peak 1000m higher sees considerably more.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Mike Pow, has all that massive amount of Hokkaido snow melted by now, or is there still ski touring to be had on the higher terrain?
Are the mountains glaciated? (I don't remember seeing glaciers during my one visit there in 1987.)
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Hi Martin,
No glaciers on Hokkaido.
Just slivers left in this part of Hokkaido. A few turns still to be made but nothing exciting.
Touring season normally ends mid-May give or take, a little longer on Honshu due to higher elevations not necessarily more snow.
You should make a return visit 20 years down the line to see if and how much it's changed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I notice there is a link in that article to another about St Pierre de Chartreuse being under threat. Does anyone know if it opened last season?
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It opened but not until late into the season. I believe they were struggling around the lucrative Feb half tem holidays. I had planned to ski there, but didn't bother due to the conditions - spent most of my limited free time at Alpe d'Huez instead. Hope to get up there next season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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David Goldsmith, It's not a tragedy. 5-6 ski lifts? You are bored man, give it up. Take up a real occupation. 
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The "tragedy" is the disapparence of status quote.
Resorts in Europe with marginal snow should struggle to continue operate, with snowmaking if neccessary. Water issue it may cause or energy it takes be damned. New resorts outside of Europe must not be encourage to start, regardless of how much better snow potential.
Because the carbon footprint of David Goldsmith "getting to" those far away new resorts would contribute too much to globle warming!
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I hope this is tongue in cheek
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect that this closure has little to do with global warming.
I feel that the days of a lot of very small resorts may be numbered. With the investment in lift systems that have been made by larger resorts and I do not mean just those of three vallies scale, together with the improvements that have been made in the alpine road infrastructure in the thirty years I have been skiing, more people will find it easier to get to other resorts where more scope is on offer.
Not very romantic I am afraid, but that's the way it is.
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I suspect that this closure has little to do with global warming.
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I suspect so, too. Our friends with an apartment in Abondance used to speak about enjoying the small local area there, with plenty of good snow, but nobody else on the lifts.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
but nobody else on the lifts
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Some "body" had to pay for the operating cost of those empty lifts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Murdoch wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, It's not a tragedy. 5-6 ski lifts? You are bored man, give it up. Take up a real occupation. |
Sure, what would you suggest, Dad?
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FAQ
he was keen as it was soo close to GVA but i wasnt and in the end he got a messy divorce and i got out of jail free it looks like 
