 Poster: A snowHead
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from a few things that have cropped up recently i though this may be an intersting debate 
there are several good skis out there at a price of £300- £350 ish, they are aimed at intermediate skiers, some lower level and some high level, so what is the big thing about intermediate skiers testing top end skis, commenting on them and then buying them based on the fact that they thought the 'intermediate ski' did not hold an edge, or was skiddy etc etc.
now having attended several ski tests over the past 20 odd years i can confidently say that the lower spec skis all ski well, they all hold an edge, and if skied in the correct length are perfectly good for the skiers they are aimed at, as i said elsewhere, a group of us all instructors , ex instructors and skiers of similar levels a few years back gad a great morning on the Atomic C9 £300 inc binding at the time.... skidded when we wanted it to, held an edge very well, turned easily etc etc. all the things you want a ski to do
now i have no problem if someone wants to spend their cash [so long as they do it wisely, you know all about a fool and his money] what my question is, is these skis [the £300-£350ish ones] are designed for a wide range of skiers, so what is it that makes people feel they are not good, is it
1 a lack of technique of the user causing the ski to skid, if the techinque was better would they ski better on the lower spec ski and feel it good
2 the ski is badly tuned, i have experienced this on a ski test when the tech from one brand was only intersted in tuning the race skis, the lower spec stuff didn't get touched all week 
3 a prestige factor, people wanting to have a ski that makes them feel like a better skier
4 something else
/discuss
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I used to be of the- a ski is a ski is a ski thought
I have Rossi Z5's that I ski here in Scotland (advanced/expert skis according to fall lines gear guide)
I had a week in Sierra Nevada, Spain this year and hired some mid range skis – Rossi Cobra or Viper or something.- Let’s just say I was happy to get home and ski on my own skis.
I don't know exactly what was wrong with them but I knew my skis were better for me 
At EoSB I was on Rossi 9X’s £600 and I loved them.
I’m on the cusp between intermediate and advanced from what I can gather on here and other fellow skiers.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Why do city boys drive Porsches at 5mph in city traffic jams? Why do urban dwellers ( in fact any who doesn't live upon a hill on an unmade track in the UK) have a 4x4? Why does my stereo, computer operating system, tv have at least 100% more features than I will ever use?
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Most ski advertising show the top models in the product line, as an aspirational product for all skiers, whether it be Racers or top Freeriders. Which allures to, 'if you buy some of these, you'll ski like this'
Rather than if you're an intermediate, these skis will aid progression.
There is lift queue Kudos, 'look what I've got on my feet' same goes for boots. All the gear and no idea.
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1 a lack of technique of the user causing the ski to skid, if the techinque was better would they ski better on the lower spec ski and feel it good
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Bit of Chicken & Egg here. If their technique was better, they'd probably not want to ski on a lower spec ski. They'd want something better.
To me the higher the spec of ski, the less versatile it becomes. Whereas I'd be happy years ago with just one pair, now I feel the need to have 3 pairs. Manufacturers have certainly seen this and now produce many more catagories of ski than they ever used to.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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CEM, Or very small pint's 
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| To me the higher the spec of ski, the less versatile it becomes. Whereas I'd be happy years ago with just one pair, now I feel the need to have 3 pairs. |
That's an excellent excuse! I must remember that next time I try to explain yet another ski purchase 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rob@rar, in the dog house then 
you can never have too many tools / skis/ mountain bikes / etc./ etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| CEM wrote: |
rob@rar, in the dog house then
you can never have too many tools / skis/ mountain bikes / etc./ etc. |
Not quite, but she does think I'm a bit of an idiot!
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rob@rar,
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but she does think I'm a bit of an idiot!
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i could coment here but i know you and know it is simply not true 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is it a youth thing? When you get older do you care what your seen on as long as it does the job for the right money. Mind you - to argue myself out of that viewpoint, if I had plenty of cash I'd have a sportscar to do the shopping in 
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Poster: A snowHead
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1.5 in a braking turn the skier demands higher redirection force at lower edge angles than the same skier finishing a carved turn and the lower-spec ski fails to meet expectations.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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comprex, i like your thinking
so in short technique but not the lack of it, the mis application of it
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I regard my skis as pretty good quality. Paid £350 for some VR27's and about £175 for some second hand 8800's.
I tried them both before I bought them and bought them because I liked them.
So I don't think it's a price point thing - more advanced skis can be got for the same price as intermediate skis.
Having said that, I'm pretty sure my shonky technique doesn't get the best out of either ski - yet.
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CEM,
I'd say a combination of
5) they REALLY think they are a much better skier than they are -we started looking for skiers who could actually do arc2arc turns when I was in Colorado... the results were astounding... about 1-2 PER DAY... even folks that raved about how they had to have race stock GS skis to ski on started turns with a steering movement...
and 3)
mixed with a bit of male hormones (I have known women to try to get LAST years ski because the flowers are a better colour/shape etc and match their jacket/blah blah.... ie they seem more obsessed with the look than the status thing - try selling girls a truely UGLY ski!!!)
Oh and I can assure you that if I dislike what the ski is doing I am usually blaming me... until we find that
a) the skis have no edge at all- yes it seems they were round!
b) the skis are bent
c) there is somehow a ledge of ice under the ski (yes this happened and I thought I was just being very unco that afternoon)
However there is also a big difference when I ski on a pair of very short soft skis (my chin height maybe) that the italian hire place gave me and a pair of 185cm race stock GS skis... the 2 skis just are not made to do the same job! Not that they cannot be skied - but they sure feel different doing different tasks....
So I think it really is horses for courses ski wise... ie buy what you need for the job at hand...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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does it matter? why not buy what you want to buy? without other trying to find any reasoning behind it.
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little tiger,
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try selling girls a truely UGLY ski!!!
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Aha, gotcha there! Mine are truly HIDEOUS (Head iXRCs in a truly revolting combination of blue and orange)
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buy what you need for the job at hand
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Nice idea, but surely lots of people prefer to have one pair of all-purpose(ish) skis, on grounds of cost and transportability, don't they?
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Hurtle,
I did... until I started skiing different stuff... then I needed telemark skis and boots... then GS skis.... and so it goes on.... my list of ski tuning stuff i want just as a minimum has grown... etc etc
BTW - my stocklis were disgusting... but then my instructor chose them to suit my learning needs...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| graeme wrote: |
| does it matter? why not buy what you want to buy? without other trying to find any reasoning behind it. |
ok you do that, by why spend more than you need to???, i seem to remember you were always looking for the deal of the century...... so if 2 hours lessons would change your technique to a point that enabled you ski a lower spec ski better then would you not want to save possibly £100+ ...if not just carry on as before, me i am just trying to look into the reasons why people do what they do 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Spyderman, they had pink ribbons on the bases too - but that was just cheap marketing, and nothing to do with breast cancer research.
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You know it makes sense.
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High end ski typically equate to stiffer and if you are a fat b**stard like me some length and a bit of stiffness can help your carving. i used to ski intermediate skis and they wilted under the unrelenting pressure of my gut
That said i just took delivery this morning of a pair of the most hghly specialised skis that will be really hard to ski, completely unsuitable and horrible for general purpose chargin around.....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| That said i just took delivery this morning of a pair of the most hghly specialised skis that will be really hard to ski, completely unsuitable and horrible for general purpose chargin around..... |
Which slalom skis did you go for in the end? I've just bought a pair fo general charging around so that I can give my slalom skis a rest!
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I thought he meant he'd bought Pocket Rockets!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| rob@rar, Fischer RC4 SL 165 FIS race stock. way too short and stiff for anything but gates.... |
Nah, I spent a fair bit of time last season skiing on race department slalom skis in the bumps, off-piste, variable snow, etc. A good skier will make them work in any conditions. Unfortunately I'm not that good, so when skiing them in bumps, off-piste, variable snow, etc I flailed around far too often, trying to work out why I couldn't do things! Hence the Magfire's I've just bought 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Unfortunately I'm not that good
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SNAP
did you go a bit longer with the magfires?
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| skimottaret wrote: |
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Unfortunately I'm not that good
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SNAP
did you go a bit longer with the magfires? |
Not really, went for 168. I have a pair of Karmas at 177 for times when I'll have more of an off-piste focus (but these have a big turn radius, so not so much fun for on-piste carving). When I want to scare myself silly the GS skis come out, and these are 185. The Magfires are for general hooning around and I didn't think they needed to be any longer (I'm 173cm tall and 72kg).
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im 193 and the 165 SL skis just look silly
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, I skied the Swiss Wall in Avoriaz on my Dynastar Omeglass 156cm. Talk about hard work, I was destroyed at the bottom.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| im 193 and the 165 SL skis just look silly |
But just think how much fun you'll have doing itty bitty arc to arc turns!
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FAQ
I swapped them for 2 Film Premiere tickets and an after show party. 