 Poster: A snowHead
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Not quite sure where I'm going with this but bear with me and we'll see if one of the pros can articulate better.
Over my adult life the majority of my snow days have been spent on a snowboard. The balance shifted significantly this past season towards skiing as to be honest snowboarding on a non powder day just isn't as much fun but still overall it'll take me a while to balance out. I think snowboarding (as well as fat skis, shaped skis -ideas developed from snowboarding) has significantly helped my skiing. why?
Hypotheses:
1 Increased sensitivity to relative pressure on feet, toes, heels , ankle flex etc?
2 General snow awareness
3 A lot fewer variables to "think" about snowboarding - good snowboarders don't just make it look effortless I suspect it is effortless.
4 Used to using a single platform rather than 2 separate amd independent
5 Used to falling on the back bottom/face/chin a lot  so fear factor reduced
Now I know easiski has snowboarding as her second discipline but doesn't really like it IIRC.
Thoughts?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 18-05-07 22:05; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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6 Gotten the brain used to processing snowy scenery at speed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Balance
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Snowboarding was the best thing that ever happened to skiing. It improved the kit no end. The problem is that people still want to pretend it is just as hard as skiing. It iｓ not. In exactly the same way as using shaped skis/fat skis etc. is not as hard as using straight skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Nickski wrote: |
| The problem is that people still want to pretend it is just as hard as skiing. It iｓ not. |
IME this is definitely true at lower levels for instance riding in powder for the first time on a board is a doddle compared to skis. At higher levels I think things reverse somewhat - technical access traverses and holding an edge on exposed wind polished pitches become much harder when you've only got one edge to play with.
Anyone who thinks that Jeremy Jones isn't at least the equal of the big mountain freeskiers is shortsighted IMO too.
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Nickski, does it particularly matter how 'hard' it is? And isn't that rather a function of the individual undertaking it? I know numerous skiers who have utterly failed to get to grips with even the basics of boarding.
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I've never tried it - lots of folks on here say boarding is easier, particuarly for the older amongst us. I still think the concept of both feet firmly fastened to something with no independant movement sounds dodgy. I guess it could teach me a lot about edges though as from what I see of people learning its all about the edge of the board. Although edges are very important to skiing it is obviously possible to get along without knowledge of them (I have done anyway  ), maybe I would have learned to ski faster if I had learned to board first...... I don't know, but I just didn't fancy trying it.
However, I must admit that when boarding is done properly it looks fantastic to watch.
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| Quote: |
| lots of folks on here say boarding is easier, particularly for the older amongst us. |
Actually, Megamum, only one person said that snowboarding was easier for older people, as far as I recall. His was probably a minority view. I think it is quicker to become a competent snowboarder than to become a competent skier, but that's for young, fit, strong people. My son is a brilliant skier, strong and young, and becoming quite a good snowboarder, but he has always maintained that a day's boarding is harder work than a day's skiing. He skis when he wants a bit of a rest (backwards, if the piste is an easy one). As an elderly boarder (I started when I was 59) I found it quite hard work, actually. On skis, you can stand and have a rest, or just shuffle along (e.g. in a lift queue); it's more of a mission on a board. You have to balance, even standing still (why else do boarders sit in the middle of the piste all the time) and, of course, you fall over. A lot. And very heavily, when you catch an edge. Beginner ski falls are often just a sort of toppling over. After my first few days boarding I was so stiff and sore that getting up on an elbow to have a drink of water in the middle of night caused a degree of pain extremely comparable to what I felt the first few days after my hysterectomy. No kidding! I don't expect a 22 year old would have been in such pain.
Older people are often too afraid to make dicks of themselves to take up snowboarding. So are many competent skiers of any age; can't bear the ignominy of falling around on a nursery slope as opposed to zipping around feeling cool. That's why some skiers don't get to grips with it, I think. I suppose I just don't care! My own view is that anything you slide around on - alpine skis, cross country skis, blades, boards, telemark, helps you understand a bit more about snow, and slopes, and look at things differently. It is irritating that people take such narrow minded attitudes to other snow users. The idea that a bit of boarding helps your skiing, or a bit of skiing helps your boarding, is a very sensible one, I reckon. I enjoy the change. I still have a fantasy, that I swoop down a slope on my board, looking cool, overtaking some teenager who thinks he's chocolate, then turn round and say hello in the lift queue, and he's been overtaken by an old crone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, I notice that you tend to get that sort of sniffy attitude from young boarders and old skiers, and I suspect that in both cases the real reason for it is exactly what you describe - they're just frightened of looking uncool.
The pain thing is the same regardless of age - I spent days feeling as though someone had given me a good kicking, as did several of our staff who're 20 years younger than me.
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fatbob, you've got a point, up to a point. It's the same type of point though as straight skis are harder to turn than shaped skis. Having one edge in a lot of situations will be harder than one e.g. traversing. Which is why a lot of guides don't want to take Boarders because traversing is such a pain for them.
Lizzard, apparently it does. I'm not saying snowboarding isn't valid or something like that, just that skiing is more technical. The point about the individual concerned is true. A lot of people ski (and presumably snowboard) who aren't particularly sporty and have done no other sport since school. That's one of the great things about the sports, you don't have to be particularly athletic to enjoy it. From my experience learning to board was physically far more demanding (good for your stomach muscles though). Generally Boarders are younger and fitter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nickski, how can either one be 'valid' (or not)? It's all just a frivolous activity which involves paying lots of money to be hauled up a slope, only to slide down again on a bit of plastic. Ridiculous really.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lord there's some bollux in this thread:
1: Initial learning curve on a board is much steeper and usually much more effort intensive.
2: The 'intermediate' schlepping around on both skis and board are pretty much equally skills deficient.
3: There is NO difference in the level of skills and the amount of practice and effort needed to drive a board or skis at a high level, While one tool may be favoured for for the prevalent snow conditions, that only requires a commensurate lift in skills to slide in the opposite and that's applicable to both disciplines.
The one real difference is that a boarder does have a less remote relationship with the slope . . . only one edge requires a better 'feel' for what's happening under it. Or you find out what it tastes like.
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Masque, hurrah, the voice of reason. Suspect you may have killed the thread though. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Lizzard, Mercy killing 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Masque wrote: |
| The one real difference is that a boarder does have a less remote relationship with the slope . . . only one edge requires a better 'feel' for what's happening under it. Or you find out what it tastes like. |
This season I was most disappointed with the piste flavouring on offer. Natural snow all round.
I vote for vanilla, to make the face plant experience a much more rewarding one. See signature for details.
I'd actually add a comment on topic here, but Mrs Lizzard is probably right. Not that I'd tell her so.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Nickski wrote: |
| The problem is that people still want to pretend it is just as hard as skiing. It iｓ not. |
Right! It's not as hard as skiing. It's harder!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Masque wrote: |
Lord there's some bollux in this thread:
1: Initial learning curve on a board is much steeper and usually much more effort intensive.
2: The 'intermediate' schlepping around on both skis and board are pretty much equally skills deficient.
3: There is NO difference in the level of skills and the amount of practice and effort needed to drive a board or skis at a high level, While one tool may be favoured for for the prevalent snow conditions, that only requires a commensurate lift in skills to slide in the opposite and that's applicable to both disciplines.
The one real difference is that a boarder does have a less remote relationship with the slope . . . only one edge requires a better 'feel' for what's happening under it. Or you find out what it tastes like. |
No argument with 1. but if you are committed to get through the pain barrier and have got enough "bottle" 3 days (max 1 week) should see you through.
How much schlepping you do at 2. is highly dependent on how far you want to push things - its not like there is the same technique/equipment barrier to going off piste that you have on skis.
3. Agree I think - when I said effortless I meant the feeling but foot steering and balance need to be spot on to achieve this. The purest carve is on an alpine raceboard.
Anyway is not supposed to be an arguing thread more an advocacy of cross training. It works in other sports why not snowbased.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I used to think that the learning curve for skiing and boarding was inverted. I.e. It's reasonably easy to become mobile on ski's but many find it hard to move on from there. Where as it's fairly hard to get mobile on a board (at least when it comes to linking turns on plastic . . . ) but once you can link turns, it's easy to progress.
However, I've changed my mind. The more I develop my boarding the more I realise it's just as technical as skiing, and in some respects more so.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lizzard, pmt ??
[/runs for cover]
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debbi, er, no. Just seen that sort of illiterate nonsense once too often. Has no-one any care for their language? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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bogger. Didn't spell check it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Lizzard, glasshouses and stones?
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someone proposed to put us ambidexterous types on blades
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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pam w, Chambers lists it as ambidext(e)rous, indicating that either is acceptable. Though in fact it was a typo.
david@mediacopy, sod off.  (That post didn't merit anything either more intelligent or better mannered.)
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| debbi, er, no. Just seen that sort of illiterate nonsense once too often. Has no-one any care for their language? |
Language evolves otherwise it becomes Latin
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You know it makes sense.
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fatbob, canicula!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatbob, there's a difference between linguistic evolution and indifferent ignorance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lizzard, 
In all seriousness that seems harsh.
What I said was in humour but IS true. Apostrophes do confuse me. I do use too many comma's in my copy. I did go to a comprehensive and the quality of English language taught there was shocking (with hind sight). And if you do have a quick guide to punctuation I WOULD appreciate it.
If you are really concerned about promoting correct English (which IS a good thing) a slightly less aggressive approach might help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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david@mediacopy, Do you want to borrow my picture of a fluffy pink lizzard? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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david@mediacopy, how about "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" by Lynne Truss. She somehow managed to make grammar into a really fun read. There are no doubt more sober and didactic books too - but the only grammar book I ever read was for Latin (Kennedy's Shorter Way of Eating Prime Beef, as it was titled following the traditional schoolboy defacement), so I doubt that'll be much help.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I do use too many comma's in my copy.
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david@mediacopy, I see what you mean! Have you seen that great book called "Eats, shoots and leaves". By Lynne somebody. It was a runaway best seller a couple of years ago and says everything there is to say about apostrophes and much else besides. Sounds really dull, but actually very funny; highly recommended. We have a copy in the loo in our French apartment, alongside a book called "Merde" all about bad language in French.
I suspected Lizzard's ambidexterous was a typo but I couldn't resist pointing it out after her blast at you! I've never seen it spelt that way though and my shorter Oxford English doesn't give that alternative. I hope people won't start pronouncing it that way; it might catch on. Like the dreaded "prostrate trouble" which people keep telling me their husbands have - and they don't mean a tendency to fall over.
I can spell, but some people cleverer than I, for example a work colleague in the past, can't. I don't think that English spelling can be "taught" quite like simultaneous equations. It's partly about pattern recognition, and best learnt, like many aspects of English language, by reading good prose. When you recognise the pattern of a word, it just looks plain wrong spelt any other way. I share Lizzard's dislike of poor English but I wouldn't pull somebody up about in in a context where it is not really relevant, and where the context should encourage people to express themselves freely.
PS. When I previewed this post I noted that I had inserted an incorrect apostophe in "husbands" above; let he who is without sin cast the first stone....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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GrahamN, pam w, I've heard of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves". I've never got around to picking up a copy but now you mention it a trip to Amazon beckons.
pam w, It's interesting what you say about spelling. I was taught to spell during the craze for phonetic spelling way back when. The problem for me was that I didn't start to speak until I was about 5, and had speech therapy for a while after. Tricky to say the least if you can't say the word correctly !
Megamum, Do you think it help ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Apostrophes do confuse me.
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Plural words (one comma, two commas) don't have apostrophes. Possessive words (Megamum's goats, WTFH's motorised member-extension) do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I don't think that English spelling can be "taught" quite like simultaneous equations. |
Funny thing is, some people can't grasp simple mathematical concepts. Eh, Lizzard?
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I'm as pedantic as the next man (or woman), mind you! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm not getting into this thread, I'll leave by saying I went off pisting it with some guys at the MSB, they had to climb over a fence, I jumped over it. There my friends is the difference between skiing and snowboarding. Admittedly after the fence I was screwed as they could side step up the hill to where we should have been.
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I'm not saying snowboarding isn't valid or something like that, just that skiing is more technical.
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I'm baffled by this one to be honest. How many skiers can do whole runs riding switch? And how many skiers get around a mountain without skating/poling across flat sections, boarders have to be always thinking ahead of the flat sections and getting some speed into them, or at least they should be, if they aren't then they deserve to unbuckle and walk it out
Hmm, thought I wasn't getting into this thread, that's far too many sections I'm branching out into, back to the jungfrau thread I go.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
Apostrophes do confuse me.
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Plural words (one comma, two commas) don't have apostrophes. Possessive words (Megamum's goats, WTFH's motorised member-extension) do. |
Ah but what if an inanimate pronoun is possessive? The world stops rotating on it's axis?
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FAQ
s that have seen me fall AoverT off both board and skis . . . But I was disappointed that at the Castleford test not one skier slipped their bruised tootsies into the relative comfort of a pair of snowboard boots and try sliding a demo tray 
