 Poster: A snowHead
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Yeah Im sure this is done alot. Really just a question that I need peoples opinions on:
My girlfriend and I are beginners but fast learners, both onto parallel turns on easy runs (me after 1 days skiing)
What would we benefit more from (price being roughly equal)?
2 days of private lessons (2 x 2 hours)
OR
5 days of group lessons (5 x 2 hours)
I can see the pros and cons of both, but not sure overall what would be best (we are on holiday in a group so will have other people to ski with).
Any opinions are welcome.
Thanks
Skola
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Skola, Private.....Have done group and it was painful, big bird at the back kept falling over and everyone had to wait  . Went private this year and am sold on them..1:1 and no lift queues. If you are fast leaners go private.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cant see any pros of group lessons in your situation, private lessons all the way (both together in same lesson providing your of similar ability)
I have learned more in one hour of private than 10 hours of group
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| Monkfish wrote: |
| Cant see any pros of group lessons in your situation |
Camaraderie of group lessons? Always been a major enjoyment factor for me when I'm in a group. Private lessons are a bit more serious/intense.
More time to get feedback from an instructor? Probably the best reason for being in groups as far as I'm concerned. There are limits to how much progress you can make in two hours, regardless of whether you are getting 1:1 instruction. A longer period of time in front of an instructor can provide more opportunity to discuss misconceptions, get a better mental image of what you are doing rather than what you imagine you are doing, etc.
Another benefit for the rest of a group of mixed ability skiers is that two hours a day in classes gives the more competent members of the party time to blast around at their speed without having to wait for the novice to catch up.
I don't think there is a "right" answer to this question. It depends on many factors.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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but they have already mentioned they have a group to ski with so scratch that reason!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Monkfish wrote: |
| but they have already mentioned they have a group to ski with so scratch that reason! |
Did we hear whether the rest of the group were happy to have a couple of novices tagging along all day  I did say that that reason would be for the rest of the group rather than the beginners in lessons!
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Fair point, but my experience of group lessons has often been stood waiting on the piste whilst the novice skier in the group is nursed down the slope. Group lessons can be an intensely frustrating experience, even a good teacher in a good group has felt more like being guided than taught.
From my own experience I would suggest the path to learning to ski is quickest with private lessons, maybe others experience differs so fair enough
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Monkfish, I think one of the factors in helping decide is the quality of the instructor, for both private and group lessons. From my exprience I'd say that the quickest path to improving technique is with a brilliant instructor, regardless of whether you have private lessons or group lessons. Some of the most inspirational teaching (and therefore the most learning) I had last season was in a group of 10.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Definately agree on that!!! Which is why I'm unsuccessfully trying to find an inspirational teacher in another thread on here 
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| Monkfish wrote: |
| Definately agree on that!!! Which is why I'm unsuccessfully trying to find an inspirational teacher in another thread on here |
Where and what discipline? I'll often choose the resort based on quality of instructor, rather than choosing the resort then trying to find a great instructor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ski and Ski Amade ...feel like I'm thread hijacking here though
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rob@rar, Don't forget that you can choose your private instructor but not your group one. You go on special courses - most don't! Skola, If you learn more quickly than average go private. ps: if you've done a week you're not beginners. Beginners have never skied prior to their holiday. Of course you don't say where you're going or what the choices of ski school are - there may be more than one. If classes are limited to about 6 they're sometimes good value, but if it's 12 - forget it!
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| easiski wrote: |
| rob@rar, Don't forget that you can choose your private instructor but not your group one. You go on special courses - most don't! |
Yup, that's an excellent point. But most people don't pick a private instructor by name, they just book a 'private'. Instructors like you are very honourable exceptions to the norm  I've had my fair share of duff private lessons, unfortunately.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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rob@rar, I have rarely booked a private without having a name... For me that is a huge reason to book a private... I've seen some of the ski school ski - and as ski schools do not normally give enough information re group lessons I collect it myself first to try to screen the duds out... Last time I left it entirely to someone else was the EpicSki Academy - they gave me the only instructor I'd requested not to have...  Affirmed my decision that self selection of instructors may be tricky but less so than letting someone else do it!
to the OP
I count it up this way... 6 people in the group means I will get 10 mins of instruction directed at ME per hour (if no-one in the group stuffs around falls down etc)... so the group lesson must be at least 1/6th the price per hour to be an improvement!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| little tiger wrote: |
| rob@rar, I have rarely booked a private without having a name |
Same for me, but not everyone will have a personal recommendation for a named instructor. As I tend to ski in the same four or five resorts it's possible to have a small network of instructors you know and to stick with them. But if you are visiting a resort for the first time it's not so easy to know which instructor to sign up with. If you just rock up to the ski school office and book a private I think you stand just as much chance of getting a dud as you do when booking into class.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Had group ski lessons with NewGen in Courcheval, me and Mrs Monkfish in separate groups, both good experiences
(though would still go private!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| I count it up this way... 6 people in the group means I will get 10 mins of instruction directed at ME per hour (if no-one in the group stuffs around falls down etc)... so the group lesson must be at least 1/6th the price per hour to be an improvement! |
I don't think it is that simple an equation. Much of the time the instructor will be talking to the group as a whole, so you are not only getting 1/6th of his time but a general level of input. I think there is also some value to be had from seeing how other people in your group are skiing: have they made the change the instructor would like; what questions do they ask; etc.
For most people the choice is between, say, 2 hours of private lesson or 15 hours of classes. It is rare that people will be deciding between 15 hours of privates or 15 hours of group lessons because of the relative cost
IMO for group lessons to be reasonably effective they should be no more than 8 people, and the standard of skiing of the clients should be reasonably close. I've found the only way to get classes like that is to pay a premium over 'typical' ski school such as the ESF.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| little tiger wrote: |
| rob@rar, I have rarely booked a private without having a name |
Same for me, but not everyone will have a personal recommendation for a named instructor. As I tend to ski in the same four or five resorts it's possible to have a small network of instructors you know and to stick with them. But if you are visiting a resort for the first time it's not so easy to know which instructor to sign up with. If you just rock up to the ski school office and book a private I think you stand just as much chance of getting a dud as you do when booking into class. |
I did pretty well on walk in to a few resorts by just putting quite specific questions and requirements to the ski school desk... but I'd far prefer to not have to do that.... I guess I have greater than normal experience at booking private lessons though - so I tend to do a bit better than average at getting close to what I want...
I find Europe a little better than North America in this regard - competing ski schools means they know I'll just go ask the next lot if I'm not getting sensible answers to questions - and I have other options.... then again NA resorts can be worried I'll change resort to get what I want...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've skied with quite a few ski school group lessons (they used to cost me under $10 australian IIRC) ... I'd say the average person taking a group lesson of more than 3 people from a ski school is not getting a heap of teaching for their money - better than nothing but far below a decent private lesson... Ski instructor training clinics are not a normal lesson as all have the same goal (to pass the exam)... so while they have different needs they do have similar objectives....
In a group lesson you get everything from "my husband/boyfriend sent me" to "I wnat to skip lift lines" to "I'm looking to pick up" ... I don't see an awful lot of serious learners in large group lessons for some reason... and I've skied with masters race groups too -even many of them are not really serious - they just want the kudos of having a race clinic group..
I do like small group lessons - but few places run small groups. Easiski and Whistler(supergroups IIRC) are 2 of the places I know do run 3 people groups
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little tiger, I'd agree with you for all skiing tuition after the first few weeks. So I think see how groups go - providing they are no more than 6 people - for the OP.
But... as a beginner it is good to have some other fellow numpties around - and to feel part of a joint learning experience sharing those initial triumphs and falls.
I have once been in a group clinic with 4 people in in Canada - but most US/Canadian lessons I have had have been 2 or 3 - which I find fine, although I can see for race-training you might want to be 1:1.
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| although I can see for race-training you might want to be 1:1. |
If you're runing gates you can afford a slightly larger group as everyone gets split up: some people on the course, some people waiting to start their run, some people on the lift back up, some peopl getting feedback, some people going from the course to the lift. I've often been in a gates class of 10 and not been with any member of the group for an hour or more.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, But the OP is not a beginner, they've already done 1 week and learned quicker than average, so, given that they're thinking of the ESF with their huge groups it would seem to be a no contest sort of thing.
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| easiski wrote: |
| stoatsbrother, But the OP is not a beginner, they've already done 1 week and learned quicker than average, so, given that they're thinking of the ESF with their huge groups it would seem to be a no contest sort of thing. |
Bingo! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thanks for everyones replies
i was hoping this thread would decide for me but...ofcourse not.
we arent beginners but havent done a week....i have little over 1 day under my belt i think my girl has 4 or 5 inc. lessons but this was like 15 years ago (we did 2 hours at snozone and it seemed to come back to her quite quickly)
after some thinking and discussion
i think we will go with private
happy to ski with the other half and maybe other people we are going with if we are at a similar level
less committed time therefore more flexibility (lie in or first lift)
more dedicated tuition hopefully progress faster
so i think thats my decision
thanks again
Skola
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Enjoy
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Skola, sorry, I misunderstood your experience, it doesn't change my advice though. Have fun. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I am also going to La Tania in January and will have a private lesson as I'm more advanced intermediate now and need to get some confidence on blacks and bumps. I am going to book into Magic Academie (previously Magic in Motion) as an alternative to ESF. I have no idea what they will be like but am hoping they have more native English speakers. I seem to get on better when things can be described in greater detail because I improved drastically after private lessons in Canada and also from Warren Smith Academy.
Skola - Just out of interest, which week are you going and in what Chalet?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Choose whichever YOU think will be the most fun!
You will obviously make faster progress with private lessons, but remember you're also on holiday. Some people prefer groups for a bit of social interaction.
Private lessons become more valuable and cost effective as you gain more experience.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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From La Tania, Supreme and New Gen are still worth the hike up to 1850 but Ski Excel run by ex-Supreme instructor Patsi Duncan operates out of La Tania and, I would think, be well worth a call
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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easiski, Thanks for the correction, but that isn't actually what the OP said is it? He said they were beginners... And I said first few weeks...
But the point about the ESF is well taken...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| curry-queen wrote: |
Skola - Just out of interest, which week are you going and in what Chalet? |
My wild prediction....Im staying with you.
No joke.
I see your from Bristol....it cant be a coincidence....Beriozka on the 3rd.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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eng_ch, Patsi Duncan is very good - she's aunt to a certain A Baxter ...
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easiski, yes, I know (both statements) . She sorted out my head in one 2-hour session one year a while back when I'd had a rather bad few days.
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| easiski wrote: |
| eng_ch, Patsi Duncan is very good - she's aunt to a certain A Baxter ... |
Why not go the whole hog, schlep up to 1850 and ski with his Mum?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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