What Video Camera should I buy?

A snowHead

I am thinking about buying a video camera primarily for filming sports (skiing, athletics, netball etc.) as well as general indoor usage.

Any suggestions on Models, manufacturers or types?

I am told by my ski buddy (an ex BBC cameraman) that i should go for min 10x optical, Hard drive and HD format with helmet cam input and fire wire to ensure it is future proof.

Not sure about price point but probably no more than £500.

EDIT (A dumb question but if i buy in the USA are there any format issues i need to worry about)

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I don't think you'll get a high definition format camcorder at that price point for a couple of years at least. If you go for a hard disc based camcorder (rather than tape) make sure that the format is compatible with whatever software you intend to use for editing the footage. This is a good site for independent reviews and info http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

If I were buying now with your budget I think I'd be looking for a compact, good quality tape-based miniDV camcorder with analogue input (for helmetcam). Choice of brand and model would be largely driven by reviews on the camcorderinfo website.

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davidof, just for home use, occasional posts to youtube and review on the computer/home TV when checking out turns/long jumps frame by frame.

you recon 25x is a better bet? that makes sense to me an good tip on the image stabilization.

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Also be aware that if you are using a helmet cam you will need AV in. Unless you get a MP4 recorder you'd be better going for a miniDV camcorder as very few Hard drive camcorders have AV in.

If you want High Def you'll be looking at about £700 at a starting point.

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rob@rar, any issues with cold causing tape jams? i have had a few people tell me tapes can be problematic and Hard Drive is the way to go.

I recon HD format is probably not needed as im not making movies Blush

I think my mate was just thinking about future proofing.

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skimottaret, future proofing is good, but early adopters pay a premium and the format is still new to most consumers therefore still expensive.

I've never had a tape jam/problem of any kind in the 10 years that I've used camcorders, including hot and cold conditions. Bigger problem is cold affecting battery performance, so a spare can be useful.

After all it is free

I supply a guy that is filming the Burton team and filmed the Artic Challenge. He did say MiniDV is better quality than hard drive and with hard drive you can run the problem of the disk jumping. Cold would only become an issue at temperatures where you wouldn't be out anyway.

I had tape jaming occur due to cold but it was arround -18C at the time, with temps above that I've not had any problems

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This has come up several times - search for "MiniDV" which is the only real option in terms of price and quality.

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skimottaret, I have been using a Sanyo XACTI for ski vids this winter. It is tiny, takes great photos, as well as being waterproof (to a limit). Less than 200 quid, too. It is not quite up to the standard you require but Sanyo make a HD version for around double the cost.

PisteHead, I have a brother in the States coming over and could smuggle one in and with $ at 2 i would prob buy in the USA. Do you recon that the MiniDV tapes cameras sold in teh USA would only be NTSC compatible? Do HDD cameras allow either format?

HDD cameras seem to have only up to 10x zoom in high resolution models with 40x zoom in 1 Mega pixel , not sure if that makes any difference to filming skiing.

rob@rar, thanks for the link most informative
kiwi1, i will make sure i will consider the AV Input

You know it makes sense.

skimottaret, buy a PAL camcorder and save yourself a lot of hassle. The money you'd save by taking advantage of the weak dollar is not worth the incompatibility you're likely to face having an NTSC camcorder in a PAL world.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I'd go cheap mini DV to start with - decent models seem to be under £150 now & maybe a separate flash memory helmet cam (ask WTFH what his is - seemed to produce reasonable laptop if not DVD quality footage).

A snowHead

rob@rar, for sure but i am wondering if i go HDD does that eliminate the format problem as pistehead seem to allude that HDD can output in either format

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

rob@rar, not worried about being able to change on the fly but rather just if i purchase in the USA can i SET UP for either PAL or NTSC output (kind of like multi region on DVD palyers), or is it one or the other depending on where you buy.

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Lots of good advice above...

My 2p worth... MiniDV as it is the most robust and if a tape goes wrong, you put another one in. Good for 1hr recording
and the playback through a TV can be very good; ie Sony. Any probs with quality tend to surface with writing to DVD.

I can't say how DVD write type cams differ in this but maybe storage etc will be an issue.

My little HD44 Sony appears pretty bombproof and the only two things I would change spec-wise, would be to up the zoom from x10, as for ski vids this is just too constricting, and the photo facilty would need more than 1.3 m pixels to be more than useful. Also, I'd like an HD-ready cam as the picture quality is sooo much better and an external lenses capabilty. If you search back for rob@rar's helmut cam stuff he posted, you may get an idea of the stuff that is achievable relatively easily.

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after researching a bit will definately get PAL camera (you can buy mail order in USA at very good prices)

Seems to be a big decision regarding optical zoom versus resolution. The newer model MiniDV and HDD cameras all seem to be only 10x . But, the 25x types seem to have much lower resolution so i am wondering if the higher digital resolution eliminates the need for over 10x optical.

After all it is free

skimottaret, although a longer zoom can be useful, if if go much above x10 or x15 you need an incredibly steady hand or a tripod to make the footage watchable. I think my current camcorder has a maximum x10 zoom and even at that range I find it difficult to hold it steady enough. You can buy conversion lenses which screw into the filter thread on the front of (most) camcorders, allowing you to change the zoom ratio - double check that your chosen camcorder has a filter thread before you buy. Actually, the biggest problem I find with camcorders is not that the zoom is not long enough but the wide angle is not wide enough (I have a x0.5 to overcome this).

I think on balance MiniDV is the way to go and the wide lens sounds a smart idea as well. am leaning towards 25x optical zoom for things like athletics events as well as skiing. I dont think i will go for a helmet cam so AV input not really needed which opens up choises quite a bit.

I tend to buy sony gear as it never lets me down plus the tv's, dvd's etc seems to connect up much easier, whenever i have tried other brands it has been harder to hook up.

Sony HC48 seems to tick all boxes and a PAL version can be sourced in USA for $430. http://www.bhphotovideo.com

FYI The top of the range sony HC96 is $600 has a 10x zoom but much higher resolution 3.3Mpixel CCD and has AV input so i may look at that as well.

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I'd go for the HC96. Higher resolution stills and AV input likely to be more useful than long zoom in my experience, and in any case you can always add a zoom lens convertor on the front for those occasional far off event.

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FWIW Here is a review I wrote of the Samsung DP 361

http://www.abcseo.com/blog/samsung-d361-cheap-camcorder

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davidof, nice write up, you have me thinking now as that sounds like a lot of camera for 200Euro

if i go for a more expensive version rob@rar, the stills capabilty of the HC96 may make it worthwile to go for as it is nice to be able to grab the odd high quality still when out filming

oh decisions decisions wink

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

rob@rar, not knowing anything about video would you recon a 10x optical zoom 3Mpix camcorder zoomed digitally to 30x would give the same quality as a 30x optical with a 1mpix ccd array?

could this be why sony no longer offers the higher zooms in the top end cameras or am i oversimplifying things?

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

so the extra resolution is only good for stills?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Agree about digital zooms..don't use them. X10 may be ok if you are happy with the wide angle. My Sony doesn't have the best although I can't recall what it is.

I use the still facilty as it is another easy way to get stuff onto PC, but my 1.3mp isn't that good..you have to mess around with it to get a good portrait in normal lighting. In skiing or alpine backdrops then the light is good enough for it to be used as a lighthearted holiday pic. Not spectacular but useable for snaps..!!

Dead easy to get onto PC...the editing and burn later is the issue for me.

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PisteHead, PAL/NTSC is not an issue with DV. Most cameras can switch their direct TV output and DV tape is a native generic format that your software editing programme will output to whatever regional standards you require.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

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