 brian
brian
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Not just trees
The embryonic carbon offsetting industry has come up with several ingenious ways for individuals and companies to make up for the impact of their actions on the world's climate. While planting trees may be one of the most popular, other schemes use donors' money to reduce emissions from elsewhere. Climate Care, for instance, supplies farmers in developing nations with man-powered treadle pumps to replace polluting diesel pumps. One pump saves about 0.65 tonnes of carbon dioxide a year. Other schemes involve capturing methane generated by farm animals or landfill sites. |
This is a quote from Brian's link. What a heap of bollox. They haven't factored in that a man/woman working a treadle pump will be consuming extra food to generate energy, and exahaling carbon dioxide in the process of working the treadle pump.
And all this rubbish about travellers putting money into carbon offset schemes - all it does is make the traveller feel less guilt about travelling, and it makes a load of money for people who prey on their guilt. Surely it would be better to just reduce your energy use in whatever ways possible, keep turf and plants and trees in your garden instead of becoming some saddo who wants to block pave and deck every single square mm of space because you're so flipping up-to-date with what's trendy and too flipping lazy to do a spot of gardening or too tight to pay someone £20 to cut your grass! Jeez, the government's already raking in heaps on air travel surcharges and fuel taxes and whatever - let's see that spent wisely, rather than just bung a heap into what seems to be becoming environmental rip-off of the century.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, why did you post this in The Piste?
a. The post's links with skiing are at best tenuous (I know there is no sub-title to The Piste section - that's cos it doesn't need one).
b. Ironically, more snowheads are reading The Piste right now (5, as opposed to 3 - and that ratio is not un-typical.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| brian wrote: |
http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2068397,00.html
Are offset schemes just a quick, cynical cash-in catching the rising tide of guilt ? |
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yes.. but on the plus side lots of city traders will get rich trading in these new intruments and the myriad of spin offs.. lots of fat bonus's and nice new porches and foreign holidays, long haul.. fear not tho as th enormal man in the street will only have to cough up an extra tenner or two everytime they want to move more than 5 yards from their house.. which they will pay even more to keep lit and warm.. ho ho ho say the traders as they leaf through the paneri catalogue..
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brian
brian
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I read an interesting report at Strasbourg Airport last week (they had a display about environmental impact)
According to research (can't remember the source), an Airbus A320 produces less CO2 per passenger mile than a diesel car - even if there are 3 people in the car, and yet the plane is only 75% full.
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One of the great snake oil sellers with regards to the pollution of the atmosphere is our old friend
I've no idea what he put in his mouth there, but hopefully it's something that vacuums hot air.
Blair was great on Kyoto, but where's the delivery?
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
I read an interesting report at Strasbourg Airport last week (they had a display about environmental impact)
According to research (can't remember the source), an Airbus A320 produces less CO2 per passenger mile than a diesel car - even if there are 3 people in the car, and yet the plane is only 75% full. |
I'd like to see some figures. I can say that to move 3 people from my home in the Alps to the UK (which I don't do very regularly) it is around 900km which is 1 tank of diesel. That must be around 35-40 litres. When I checked the carbon footprint for 3 people for that distance it was something like 1.5 tonnes of CO2.
However coach travel does seem to output less CO2 than rail travel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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davidof, if I remember, I'll try to get the relevant information on Friday.
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dont forget to add in the enviromental cost of 900 km of road and all the asscociated sercive stations, lighting, repairs, etc
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
According to research (can't remember the source), an Airbus A320 produces less CO2 per passenger mile than a diesel car - even if there are 3 people in the car, and yet the plane is only 75% full. |
The source is everything ... especially in relation to data on such a politically-charged subject.
If it isn't independently researched and peer-reviewed to pukka academic standards it isn't worth the recycled paper it isn't printed on.
I did 3 years on the SCGB Environmental Working Group and had to digest endless false propaganda. The 'snake oil' comment is great, and very pertinent. The fact that an airline made the comment is most interesting.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| dont forget to add in the enviromental cost of 900 km of road and all the asscociated sercive stations, lighting, repairs, etc |
Good points. And the mind boggles at the carbon and financial costs of putting in the TGV infrastrcture - even though it does have the benefit of running on largely carbon-free energy.
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| achilles wrote: |
| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| dont forget to add in the enviromental cost of 900 km of road and all the asscociated sercive stations, lighting, repairs, etc |
Good points. And the mind boggles at the carbon and financial costs of putting in the TGV infrastrcture - even though it does have the benefit of running on largely carbon-free energy. |
That argument is always given whenever anyone suggests any high energy project in France. "hey but it runs on cheap enviromentally friendly nuclear power".
Now I personally think the UK does need to have some nuclear power in the mix but dont' forget that mining Uranium oxied ore, building, running and decommissioning a nuclear plant etc is far from carbon neutral. I would be interested in the figures too. Also nuclear power that is used for running TGVs at 320km/h could be used elsewhere or the country could have fewer nuclear power plants. Again I'm curious as to what the extra energy requirements are of running a TGV at 320km/h are as opposed to a UK electric train at 200km/h - there is certainly a high wear and tear cost to TGV lines.
Everyone is congratulating the French with the East TGV line but so far it seems to have had the peverse effect of making places like Metz within commuting distance of Paris and pushing up house prices. Surely it is not a great idea to commute 200+km to work?
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You know it makes sense.
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davidof, fundamentally, the energy used in maintaining speed goes up with the square of the speed, IIRC correctly. But there will also be extra energy required to accelerate the train to a higher speed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Do nothing is an option?
Mankind evolves.
Each generation overcomes the difficulties left by the previous generation and then goes on to (in most cases) improve it.
If this wasn't so we wouldn't have the wheel etc etc ................
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Poster: A snowHead
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boredsurfin, if mankind evolves, then how do you explain snowboarders?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Wear The Fox Hat, There are exception's to the rule.
I'm sure an 'expert' in Darwinian theory of evolution will be along shortly....... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Do nothing is an option?
Mankind evolves.
Each generation overcomes the difficulties left by the previous generation and then goes on to (in most cases) improve it.
If this wasn't so we wouldn't have the wheel etc etc ................ |
i concur.. the solution is not putting the 'carbon footprint' of a packet of biscuits on the wrapper.. but in finding new and better ways to use the resources we have, high tech solutions that are usable and actually do something (not a toyota prius).. simple solutins to improve the enviroment are available now.. legisation to reduce packaging at source, rather than reducing rubbish collections and charging people to get rid of it.. at getting it backwards alert!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Global warming may or may not be happening but its not down to you or I. Snake oil salesmen just about sums it up.
Its just the latest good cause that the west likes to pay lipservice to.
If you have an aternative veiw you are just about classed as the antichrist. I have no doubt that pollution has other serious problems but global warming is just another way of taxing us. If it is so serious why are we not ramping up investment into offshore windfarming (Denmark provides 30% of its electricity from this) or wave farming (the world leader in wave technology is based in the UK).
heres a link to an interesting article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml
Pity this did not come off, Skiing back home in Scotland might have got a longer season http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/cooling1.pdf
EDIT post the correct links Gilbert
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Brilliant we can tax planes out of the sky then all sit at home talking about what it would be like to be able to go anywhere..
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Since we're putting CO2 into the atmosphere artificially, the only way I can see us sucking it back out of the atmosphere and putting the carbon back where the fossil fuels came from (deep underground) is to act artificially.
Until we see vast CO2 machines hoovering the gas from the atmosphere and converting it to something that can be stored inertly, any claims about 'carbon offsetting', 'carbon balancing' and so on ... are best viewed sceptically. Sadly, tree planting may not be nearly enough. The current global actions to counteract global warming are clearly hopelessly inadequate.
Laundryman, I didn't say I was an authority on anything. I made that reference because it involved reading lots of stuff.
If you want to question people's integrity, credentials, or make any other sneers, why not do it from a real name?
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David Goldsmith, making the same point over and over is terribly wasteful and polluting.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Are you a member of the Ski Club of Great Britain? (narrows the ID to 30,000 people)
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David Goldsmith, Are you Tim Brown?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Does anyone have any useful references on the process for converting CO2 gas to some solid or liquid, perhaps graphite, diamond or oil, that can be buried, and doesn't require any energy input?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| David Goldsmith, making the same point over and over is terribly wasteful and polluting. |
Quite the opposite, I think it's the perfect example of recycling in action. 
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brian
brian
Guest
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Do nothing is an option?
Mankind evolves.
Each generation overcomes the difficulties left by the previous generation and then goes on to (in most cases) improve it.
If this wasn't so we wouldn't have the wheel etc etc ................ |
Actually that should be "mankind adapts", at least if you're talking about evolution in the Darwinian sense. Proper evolution requires natural selection, ie. significant quantities of us dying !
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'd rather express a genuine viewpoint, backed by a huge consensus of international climate scientists, than indulge in serial buffoonery. And serial buffoonery seems to be the growing tendency of snowHeads.
The public are becoming more and more wise to the 'snake oil sellers' and their associated spin merchants, which gives one a glimmer of hope.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I'd rather express a genuine viewpoint, backed by a huge consensus of international climate scientists, than indulge in serial buffoonery. And serial buffoonery seems to be the growing tendency of snowHeads.
The public are becoming more and more wise to the 'snake oil sellers' and their associated spin merchants, which gives one a glimmer of hope. |
It doesn't matter how wise the public are to the snake oil sellers if the hand-wringing "green" lobbyists give politicians of all hues an excuse to tax the UK public (because that's the only way they learn!) and then pass enforcement of such taxes to the snake oil sellers. Result - public punished, snake oil sellers get rich, neglible revenue diverted to greener infrastructure e.g. public transport.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| petemillis wrote: |
| Does anyone have any useful references on the process for converting CO2 gas to some solid or liquid, perhaps graphite, diamond or oil, that can be buried, and doesn't require any energy input? |
The first Law of Themodynamics (as was being discussed here only last week) says that you would require as much energy to return CO2 to carbon as you got out of it in the first case, and the 2nd law says it would actually require more - so that doesn't really help.
What they are actually doing is (talking about) pumping gaseous CO2 e.g. scrubbed from the chimneys of power stations into the ground, such as the voids created by oil extraction, which are currently being filled with water. Sounds quite viable - although there's an issue in that power stations are not always in conventient locations to transport the CO2 to its eventual burial point. There was a whole issue of Scientific American devoted to this last Autumn (Sept IIRC) with some pretty good analyses of the problem and possible solutions. The most important point is that the technology for this exists now, and it is WAY more economic to install it when the power station is being built (such as is happening in the US and China) than trying to retro-fit. Unfortunately it's not happening now as it obviously costs (in simple conomic terms) more than doing nothing, so we'll ignore it until it's too late and spend way more in the end.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
And serial buffoonery seems to be the growing tendency of snowHeads.
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David Goldsmith,
Twas ever thus,
wasn't it 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| huge consensus of international climate scientists. |
I notice they're having a huge jamboree in Bangkok this week. I wonder how they got there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Mi'Lord Brenchley's views are not widely shared by experts in the field. Montbiot has quite a detailed debunking
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1947246,00.html
but even I know that the "medieval climate optimum" and subsequent mini-ice age were not global but regional changes to climate, possibly linked to the gulf stream.
The Telegraph article is full of strawman arguments and is not creditable science.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| petemillis wrote: |
| Does anyone have any useful references on the process for converting CO2 gas to some solid or liquid, perhaps graphite, diamond or oil, that can be buried, and doesn't require any energy input? |
yes here:-
http://www.physorg.com/news96732819.html
apart from that tropical rain forests do quite a good job naturally - they eventually turn CO2 into coal and oil which is quite handy when some evolved lifeform finds it millions of years later
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davidof, looks very interesting, but note that it's not changing CO2 into anything else, just acting as a good scrubber of CO2 from the surrounding atmosphere. Looks an interesting solution to the geographical problem I mentioned above - although there would have to be a huge number of those devices to mach a substantial difference (10 million units 10mx10m in size would have to be built to scrub out our current CO2 overproduction). I'm interested to know what powers it - sunlight? - as nothing closed cycle will unmix two gases into seaparate streams (as that would cause a decrease in entropy, breaking the 2nd Law of thermodynamics).
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GrahamN The volume occupied by gaseous CO2 is far larger the volume of oil or coal removed from the ground. So it'll need compressing. This will require energy, which will no doubt result in more CO2 production through its generation. I can think though that in coast regions there may be a way to compress CO2 without requiring too much energy input, and that would be to move it to the sea bed in huge floppy bags attached to something like a ski lift using wave power to produce the movement. Once it's compressed in these big floppy bags, which will now be small, then it can be shifted into the voids under the sea bed.
This is my idea and the copyright of this message belongs to me....and woe betide anyone who takes my idea and publishes it elsewhere!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave told me there was a drought in Brisbane. I've been there and it is a nice place.
Dave said 'Sod 'em. So long as we can walk round in shorts in May who cares ?'
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| petemillis wrote: |
GrahamN The volume occupied by gaseous CO2 is far larger the volume of oil or coal removed from the ground. So it'll need compressing. This will require energy, which will no doubt result in more CO2 production through its generation. I can think though that in coast regions there may be a way to compress CO2 without requiring too much energy input, and that would be to move it to the sea bed in huge floppy bags attached to something like a ski lift using wave power to produce the movement. Once it's compressed in these big floppy bags, which will now be small, then it can be shifted into the voids under the sea bed.
This is my idea and the copyright of this message belongs to me....and woe betide anyone who takes my idea and publishes it elsewhere! |
and how will you extract the CO2 from the air in a carbon-neutral way ?
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FAQ
