 Poster: A snowHead
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What are you taking away from your lessons at the EoSB?
I skied with Euan and Dave each for one of the lessons they taught, and I learned three new drills as a result:- Target practice: Cross our poles in front of your eyes, aim for a target down the hill, and ski, keeping the target in your "crosshairs".
- High tuck: Tuck your poles as you would for a normal tuck, but stay high and with your pelvis forward (like you're diving forward). Ski down with the poles held here.
- Leg box (my name): Place your poles behind your knees, grab the poles between your knees with both hands, and ski, using edging. Your hands will keep your knees apart. Play with turn size, shape, etc.
What about you?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ssh wrote: |
| What about you? |
Never do yoga when there are cameras present.
Sorry, I'll post some sensible thought once I've reflected. The one thing which comes to mind is the value of professional guides and instructors: priceless, for everything else there's Mastercard.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ssh, I'm extremely envious of the EoSB'ers and really wish I could have been there. As a beginner who was given various new (to me) drills to do by my instructors at L2A in March, I'm interested to know what those three you mentioned are intended to improve/fix?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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hmm, dunno why "the" came out in bold, there?! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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jonm, the EoSB gets replaced by the forum to point to the EoSB thread. You didn't do anything to it.
As with most drills, each of these can have multiple uses when outlined appropriately. The primary focuses of them are:- Separate the upper and lower body while encouraging having the upper body facing downhill.
- Activate the core of the body to facilitate balance and movement from the core, especially in off piste and/or ungroomed conditions.
- Move the lower legs together instead of sequentially.
As I mentioned, there is more to these drills than meets the eye, but this is a good start.
Other drills or concepts that you learned?
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| ssh wrote: |
- High tuck: Tuck your poles as you would for a normal tuck, but stay high and with your pelvis forward (like you're diving forward). Ski down with the poles held here.
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I don't suppose you have a pic ?
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Hi everyone, This is my posting cherry being broken! What a great week at the EoSB. Thanks to everyone who took part in the lessons and clinics. Your enthusiastic approach helped us all to make some big improvements in technique, although I think with the fun, team atmosphere we would have all learnt anyway!! Don't forget at the end of the race talk I gave you all something to think about for the summer - Hips for power, knees for strengh, ankles for accuracy. Any thoughts? Thanks again.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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euangoneskiing, Welcome to snowHeads 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Whatever you do, where ever you ski, take your bootbag with you. 
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 28-04-07 17:13; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER,
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Whatever you do, where ever you ski, take you bootbag with you
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And your Boots 
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One thing I've been aware of over the last few days is the difficulty of making changes to your skiing when you're out and about the mountain skiing at your normal pace. Although skiing is a fairly simple activity, most of the time you have to process a huge amount of information - your trajectory, snow conditions, other slope users, fear or anxiety, balance and stance, steering choices, etc, etc. On top of all that trying to make specific changes to something you are doing can be impossible because it's 'sensory overload' and instinct or muscle memory which naturally inhibits changing behaviours. Therefore I've been trying to minimise all the noise that's going on in order to focus on whatever it is I'm trying to alter. That might be skiing slowly (a la Easiski), or skiing the same slope repeatedly, or skiing very rhythmically, etc. Anything to make it easier to focus on whatever aspect of technique that I'm trying to improve. Once I can feel what I'm trying to change I then stand a better chance of bringing that into my normal ski pace. I guess there's a good reason why every instructor has a range of drills that they can suggest!
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You know it makes sense.
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rob@rar, sounds as though you focus on specific motion detail every time instead of forming a trigger image ( e.g. hawk swooping for trailing both pole tips, lemon wedge squeezing for retraction, big gorilla for gorilla turns, jumping off a bench with a beer keg for bumps, chimp swinging on a jungle gym for CM moving towards the pole plant hand, toeing a clutch for inside tip pressure, stool losing a leg for OLR, hippy woman on stairmaster for ILE) at slow speeds and then reusing the trigger image at higher speed?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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comprex, that kind of imaging doesn't really work for me anymore (used to in the past, but I think I'm trying to make fairly subtle changes to my skiing these days and it no longer does it for me), so I do tend to focus on particular motion details, in both drills and then take it into my regular skiing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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comprex,
I cannot speak for rob@rar, but not everyone uses images...
In my case that is simply NOT how I learn... I am very much sensory input oriented rather than visual... instructors that talk about accelerator pedals and what not leave me cold (and usually perplexed).... I want to know how it FEELS damn it.... one of my instructors used to stop me after every run and discuss the "feel" of the snow... where it had a different feel on the run we had just skied... where the transition point had moved to compared to last run... which turns the snow tended to break away more.... etc etc etc
THAT was very useful to me... it helped me develop a sense of what my sensory inputs meant... I could do with a lot more of that...
You can use many different things for movement triggers... in fencing if you are waiting for an attack... it is the FEEL of the blade contacts you are timing your planned counter attack to... not the look of the attack (which is usually too fast)... so you develop the ability to feel the timing and adjust the timing of your counter to that...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| euangoneskiing wrote: |
| Hi everyone, This is my posting cherry being broken! What a great week at the EoSB. Thanks to everyone who took part in the lessons and clinics. Your enthusiastic approach helped us all to make some big improvements in technique, although I think with the fun, team atmosphere we would have all learnt anyway!! Don't forget at the end of the race talk I gave you all something to think about for the summer - Hips for power, knees for strengh, ankles for accuracy. Any thoughts? Thanks again. |
Hello, friend. I'm sitting here in les 2 Alpes posting back at you... 
I've started a thread on the topic here: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=26385 so we can discuss it in its own place...
Cheers...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar, how subtle is too subtle to work?
little tiger, yes, true, but I merely wanted to start a discussion of triggers and cues vs. analysis dependence, holistic visuals seemed a good place to start because most have attempted them.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| comprex wrote: |
rob@rar, how subtle is too subtle to work?
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For me the kind of mental triggers you describe seemed to work for major changes in body movement (eg arm position/movement, independent leg action, etc), but for finer changes (eg moving pressure from toe to heel during a turn) I now prefer to know exactly what I'm trying to achieve rather then relying on a useful proxy image.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, I understood your response; I see there being two parallel processes developing slow skiing to normal pace:
one to train up the muscle firing sequence until the back brain picks up on it,
and one to speed up self analysis (not relegated to back brain)
the question remains, if you're not forming tactile or visual or kinesthetic triggers, what are you doing for the second part, whilst knowing exactly what you're trying to achieve?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| I want to know how it FEELS damn it.... |
I'm with you, little tiger.
Normal, I'm a very analytical kind of person. I have a habit of analyzing most things going on around me, sometimes to the annoyance of my close friends and associates. And in skiing, I do try to "understand" what I'm doing, but only to some degree.
The talks on ski technique forums sometimes really do go way over the head of even this Ph.D.!!! Beyond a certain point, I prefer to FEEL it, just like you do. And let the muscle to do the work. Muscle memory, if one may use that term.
Whatever I "think" in my head, until the body can "feel" it, it just doesn't "click"! And once the muscle can "feel" it, I don't need to think about it any more. It'll simply happen.
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abc,
that is more kinaesthetic awareness... I don't really have any ability to feel my muscles...
I pretty much compensate for that using light touch and pressure...
but YES we all FEEL in our own way... but getting in touch with the FEEL of your muscles, and the FEEL of the skis on snow, and the FEEL of your feet in the boots... these are all things we can use to fine tune movements...
I once had an interesting lesson with an instructor in some breakable crust... He knew me well, had seen me skiing lots with my instructor... He KNEW I could ski this stuff... not well but I could do it... It was a group lesson and after he explained to the class to keep weight on their heels by opening ankles up a bit to stop the tip digging he he saw me looking puzzled... He tried to get me to do it... but knowing me he told me to just ski it like I normally would... then he said i had my weight on heel and hence ankle open... I said it did not feel like I had weight back.. we both looked puzzled and i just skied it that way...
later my regular instructor explained it...
THAT instructor is particularly gifted kinaesthetically...he is VERY aware of his ankle opening and closing...
ME - I feel zip in that area...
I simply feel the tips of skis catch a tad and adjust my stance to keep my skis "evenly weighted"
So we both arrive at the same conclusion... one by adjusting body for the conditions... the other adjusting to ski feel to change body position
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| comprex wrote: |
| the question remains, if you're not forming tactile or visual or kinesthetic triggers, what are you doing for the second part, whilst knowing exactly what you're trying to achieve? |
Trying to develop better awareness of what's going on through tactile feedback. I talked a bit about this in my lessons with Easiski and I know it's something that I would like to improve next season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| comprex wrote: |
| rob@rar, sounds as though you focus on specific motion detail every time instead of forming a trigger image ( e.g. hawk swooping for trailing both pole tips, lemon wedge squeezing for retraction, big gorilla for gorilla turns, jumping off a bench with a beer keg for bumps, chimp swinging on a jungle gym for CM moving towards the pole plant hand, toeing a clutch for inside tip pressure, stool losing a leg for OLR, hippy woman on stairmaster for ILE) at slow speeds and then reusing the trigger image at higher speed? |
comprex, FWIW, these kinds of images don't work for me when I'm actually skiing or doing drills. They sometimes work as an initial image to understand the movement desired, but, like most metaphors, they collapse under the weight of too much analysis or focus.
While I think that my kinesthetic awareness is quite low in comparison to many other people, I have found that if I focus on one sensation during a practice drill or series of turns, I can find it at some low level and focus on it. I also tend to feel the response of the skis when I feel certain sensations, and move towards those sensations that tend to have the ski do what I want it to do. It seems to me that my "back brain" as you call it tends to pick up on these cues even though I can't really find them in my "front brain," and the results on snow are reasonably good.
In the high tuck drill, for example, I really felt my core activate for the first time, even though I am sure that it is activated much of the time when I ski. Using that drill, I played with the sensations of balance coming from my core instead of elsewhere (a pole touch, for example). As a result, I created a higher-level awareness of those sensations that I've been able to use off-piste this week (thanks, Euan!).
Hope this makes sense...
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| ssh wrote: |
| I also tend to feel the response of the skis when I feel certain sensations, and move towards those sensations that tend to have the ski do what I want it to do. |
Makes perfect sense.
Would the |hips power knees strength ankles accuracy| mantra thus work better as a map of body sensations to be felt than as a list of buttons to push for an assembly line result?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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comprex, Perhaps we should explain that rob@rar, is a good skier, and has moved well beyond that sort of basic imagery. Very fine detail is now what he needs to work on. Tiny subtle movements etc...... But hey! whatever works. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, not disputing that, the basic imagery was just the most easily explained in a sentence on a forum. Anyhow, no more derailment of EoSB stuff from me...
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
What are you taking away from your lessons at the EoSB?
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my fave tip from Euan on the bumps workshop...
start the bumps already in a deep knee bend.
Made a world of difference to the level of control, and to my commitment to sticking to the fall line / zip line.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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TJon, I vote for that one as well. It also seemed to help my (semi) jump turns off piste.
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