 Poster: A snowHead
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| stab wrote: |
| any news on the tree? |
Mild concussion, since it doesn't have a lid.
My personal opinion is a lid probably won't save my life. That, is up myself to AVOID getting into situation the lid can't help. A lid does save my day, though.
Don't harbour any false sense of security with my lids. But experienced enough crashes (mostly on bike) I can say for sure the lid saved quite a few of my days from being ruined, prosibly due to bloody/bruised head.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've worn a helmet for two years now - it was a decision I made after having a couple of bad falls and a near collision. It's a personal choice but I would add that children should always wear helmets - in their case it may save a life.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Arno, that is the contre-coup effect I mentioned. In some impacts rotational effects on the brainstem also cause problems. However, my understanding is that the reduction in g of initial impact does also reduce the secondary impact as well. Skiing accidents tend to be relatively low speed compared with RTAs. The analogy with F1 is inappropriate.
My brain is a little bit more important to me than my wrist... may not be the case for everyone, but I think this is one of these issues where those who are resistant to lids cannot be persuaded.
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Helmet: good idea
Mine's a Giro 9: good choice
It's black: very bad choice!
I bought it in Canada when temperatures were around -20C. Wore it in Andorra this year when temperatures were nearer +15C and my head steamed even with all the vents open and the ear pads removed, but I wouldn't ski without it. Since buying it I've only skied without it once (it got replaced with a fancy dress hat) and I felt much less confident. It's nothing to do with my ability, but on the mountain there're an awful lot of factors that are out of your control.
Everyone should wear a helmet, just don't get a black one!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stoatsbrother, I agree the analogy with F1 is totally irrelevant. A helmet will protect your head from all manner of low speed impacts, not to mention getting whacked by skis, poles, snowboards etc. In any shunt I'd certainly rather be wearing one than not.
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"The Sunshine Coast run - isn't that the nice blue down from Goats Eye? Certainly not an extreme run, must have just been one of those unfortunate accidents  "
I noticed, while living in Colorado, that the fatal skier/rider-tree collisions took place much more frequently at the edge of wide, groomed blue runs, rather than on double-black gladed runs - presumably because the speeds are much higher.
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| mountainmammoth wrote: |
Helmet: good idea
Mine's a Giro 9: good choice
It's black: very bad choice. |
I noticed this year that not one of the people who earn their living on the slopes was wearing a helmet, none of the instructors, none of the pisteurs, and none of the piste rescue teams, not one.
I also noted that the majority of inconsiderate and dangerous skiers were wearing helmets, and skiing far too fast and too close.
In my opinion if you were a helmet for recreational skiing you instantly gain a false sense of security.
Also, unless you are actually racing, you'll look ridiculous with a piece of Tupperware strapped to your head! 
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I must admit, protective gear does encourage "braver" behaviour. When I'm cycling in just shorts and a T shirt, I always have in my mind how painful it'll be if I fall off doing 30mph down a flint/chalk track. I tend therefore to be slower and more careful. However when I'm off roading on my motorbike in crash helmet, body armour, boots, knee protection, MX trousers etc, I'm more than happy to do 70mph down the same track, or clear massive table tops and drop off on the local MX track, and not really give a thought to how much it'll hurt if I fall.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pistemeister, Different in Jackson Hole and I believe in other North American resorts. Lots of piste patrol and ski school people seemed to be wearing them. On the lifts serving more intense terrain probably 60% of snow users of all ages wearing them too. The adaptive behaviour argument has been raised before and dealt with in at least one large study. Helmets look cooler than sad little woollen hats, and work better for warmth in all conditions except above 0 degrees, and also stop goggles fogging. In JH the only snow-user community who seemed to be really avoiding helmets were the Telemarkers. But hey - as long as you feel you look cool!
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Children must wear helmets.
It is a fact that my daughter's head was saved from serious injury by her helmet when a skier crashed into her in ski school. She (only!) suffered a broken leg, her helmet was cracked and sliced by a ski edge 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Children must wear helmets.
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...and isn't it easier to get a child to wear one if they see their parents/instructor wearing one too?
(do as I do, not just do as I say)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wear The Fox Hat, absolutely.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
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instructor wearing one too
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How many French instructor's have you seen wearing a helmet? Or Italian, where it is now Law for children to wear a helmet whilst skiing?
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You know it makes sense.
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petemillis,
Motorbikes were a lot slower when there was no law to force the riders to wear helmets.
Physically a rider in those days would have a great difficulty doing anything above 100mph because the wind blast to the face and the tears coming out from the eyes.
The law to wear helmet mandatory changed the scene completely. Manufacturers soon fit farings to the bikes. Majority of helmets are now full-face. There is almost no market for road-going motorbikes with engine below 250cc. Cheap thrills, with power to weight ratio similar to the F1 racing cars, are now possible with bikes capable of 180+mph. Some bikes in the shops are ready and suitable for the racing tracks!
I can see skiers going faster with the increased popularity to wear helmet.
Yes wearing helmet can avoid injury. Chopping the trees down can reduce the risk too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Yes wearing helmet can avoid injury. Chopping the trees down can reduce the risk too.
Okey, let';s chope down every tree standing above the lowest lift. And tell you what, cliffs are dangerous too so let's fill them up to make a nic slope down.
Sheesh, think about what you're saying
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Poster: A snowHead
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saikee, your assumptions that motorbike manufacturers suddenly managed to make faster bikes the day that helemts became mandatory is preposterous. Fitting fairings was common practice before helmets were required. There hasn't been a market for <250cc bikes in decades - but you seem to forget that the use of mopeds has not declined.
Do skiers go faster because they wear helmets, or because they are on faster skis? To use your analogy about motorbikes, perhaps it is the ski manufacturers fault! Now that more people wear helmets, they can build faster skis 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| boredsurfin wrote: |
Wear The Fox Hat,
| Quote: |
instructor wearing one too
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How many French instructor's have you seen wearing a helmet? Or Italian, where it is now Law for children to wear a helmet whilst skiing? |
I'd better be careful how I reply to that one, given the accusations made against me recently...
but, if an instructor is teaching children, and telling the children to wear a helmet, then the instructor should be wearing one as well - and not just when teaching - imagine how the child will react if the instructor just wears the helmet for the class, then as soon as it's over, they take the helmet off - then the kids are going to think that helmets are just for class.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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saikee, I cannot ever remember skiing slower because the wind in my face was too strong, and I am not sure your analogy holds water.
I prefer to ski/bike in the trees. The snow/terrain is often better there. That is why I ski 60% in N America - where the treeline in 600-800m higher than in Europe. I don't want to ski through stumps... although I do like it sometimes when they have removed every other tree and built something useful with the wood.
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I selected my helmet for maximum ventilation but not for maximum protection. I wanted it, as abc said to save my day, avoid skis on shoulders when swung around, ski edges in minor collisions, (gate poles on the dry slope); that sort of thing.
I have always worn completely daft uncool hats so the fact that I look like a berk doesn't bother me. I am nearly 50 for god's sake so am bound to look silly in a face guarded, black racing helmet (SH+).
I tried a few runs without the helmet on and apart from cold ears, didn't notice any real difference in levels of danger, speed, daring do.
My kids wear them because they can't race without them and for the same reasons I do. They look completely natural in them and in a few years time nobody will be having the debate (how odd do you all feel without a seat belt on).
In Lenzerheide this year, our instructors were told by the school to wear them if teaching anything other than beginners. in La Thuile I suspect the instructors would only wear them if designed by Gant.
Personally, I am glad that wearing protective gear is a personal choice.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It is impossible to describe the sensation of driving what I would call a naked motorbike, without any faring at around 100mph. It is like putting a slab against the wind. The rider is under the impression that someone is grabbing him/her neck trying to pull him off the seat. 750cc was considered big bikes and take a look the maximum engine capacity of what BSA, old Triumph and other Bristish manufacturers had achieved at the time.
Nowaday it is a lot easier just duck below the faring visor, twist the throttle to see the needle pass the 170mph mark without any driving skill.
Yes farings were fitted in the old days by the enthusiasts but without making wearing helmet mandatory the hyper sport fast bikes would not have been able to dominate the market.
My point is the law making helmet mandatory has led to faster motorcycles. Consequential to that full faring on a fast bike become a common or standard fitment. The end result is nowaday for about £7000 a rider can buy a 180+mph bike capable of 0 to 60mph in 2.5 seconds, a territory dominated by the top league of the sport cars like Ferrai or Aston Martin. Take away the helmet and the whole equation breaks down.
If a skier suffers serious injury after losing control there is a very good probability that he/she was skiing at a speed faster than his/her ability. A helmet is a safe equipment but would hardy help if the skier still choose to ski at a speed faster for his/her own good. At the same time everyone assumes it is safer to ski at a higher speed with a helmet than without one.
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| saikee wrote: |
| My point is the law making helmet mandatory has led to faster motorcycles. |
My point is you're talking codswallop.
Can you explain how fairings on motorbikes were only added because of helmets - it seems like extremely fuzzy logic.
But, since this is a skiing forum...
Are children's skis in Italy faster, where the kids must wear helmets?
If the skis manufactured and sold in Italy to children are faster than those sold in other countries, then you might possibly have a link. Except they aren't.
You could argue that cars have only got faster since seatbelts were introduced. Why not complain about that?
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| saikee wrote: |
| At the same time everyone assumes it is safer to ski at a higher speed with a helmet than without one. |
I believe that YOU are the one who has made an assumption there. I don't see anyone posting on here saying it is safer to ski at a higher speed with a helmet on.
I believe it is safer to wear a helmet when skiing than it is not to wear one. In my skiing, my helmet has given me protection and prevented injuries that I would have had if I had not worn it. I don't ski fast, neither do I particularly care to ski fast. I ski to have fun, and I find that wearing a helmet does not reduce the fun in any way, nor does it make me increase the risks I take with regard to speed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Martin Bell, cathy, yes, when skiing in Snowmass a few years ago, I saw - from a chairlift - a young boy kill himself in the trees lining a very wide, easy blue run and I also noticed that there were trees in the MIDDLE of some of the runs in that resort. I am not a bomber by nature, but it is tempting to bomb on those beautifully groomed pistes and I did so myself until I realised that one false move could wipe me out in a big way, helmet or not. And, BTW, I have just done my first helmeted week - fine, more comfortable than a hat. I do know that it won't protect me from every disaster, but mitigation of the odd nasty is still worthwhile in my book.
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| Quote: |
a helmet can only make so much difference to this.
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I suppose it all depends on the speed, and the angle and placement of the blow. In many cases, I have no doubt, a helmet would be a big help, and could sometimes be a life saver. I have had some whiplash on a few occasions when I smacked my head very hard on the piste (generally through catching an edge, being a rubbish snowboarder) and without the helmet the whiplash would probably have been less, but the damage to my head greater. We ski in a very uncrowded area (had whole long pistes to ourselves this morning) but I was comfortable in my helmet and would nowadays feel a bit vulnerable skiing without one in one of the crowded areas full of out of control nutters.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
A skier who bothers to wear a helmet must have consider it pays to wear one. I don't think the majority bothers with it.
Competition skiers invariably do as they ski faster than the rest of the skiing population.
One can wear all kinds of body armours to increase the safety in skiing. A helmet is just one of the many possibilities.
I suppose children are quicker to adapt to skiing and more likely to look out for fun from the speed. It is sensible for them to wear helmets as they get bore doing things slowly and repeatedly.
I witnessed my two young nephews starting skiing as a piece of meat at an age couldn't even take instruction (i.e did not understand if one shouted at them how to turn) and had to be steered by two strings strapped to the body. Two seasons later they skied down black runs in a straight line. They need helmets. If I can ski down a black run in a stright line I put on a helmet too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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saikee, nothing in your post above refutes any of my comments, neither does it answer my questions.
I'm not sure what the statistics are for helmet use, but it is rising, and in some ski areas the people with helmets far outnumber those without.
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You know it makes sense.
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| pistemeister wrote: |
In my opinion if you were a helmet for recreational skiing you instantly gain a false sense of security.
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I'm glad you started that off with "in my opinion" because the vast majority of people are nowhere near stupid enough to believe that a helmet is going to make them immortal. Any small increase in confidence is more likely to have a positive effect on their skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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When i wear my helmet it makes NO differance as to how i ski as i forget I am wearing it
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| In February 2005, Hagel and colleagues from Canada published a case-control study in the British Medical Journal comparing 1082 skiers and snowboarders with head or neck injuries with 3295 skiers/boarders without head or neck injuries. They found that wearing a helmet reduced the risk of a head injury overall by 29%. For those who required ambulance transport, wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 56%. 693 people had head injuries - 69,7% of which were cases of concussion. |
| Quote: |
| Finally, in February 2006, Sulheim et al from Norway published a case-control study from 8 Norwegian resorts to see if helmets might reduce head injury rates. The overall incidence of head injury in this study of 3277 injuries was 17.6%. They found a 53% higher incidence of head injuries amongst snowboarders compared to alpine skiers. Using a helmet reduced the risk of sustaining a head injury by 60% |
http://www.ski-injury.com/helmet.htm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think people here are thinking I am hinting their helmets will create the same result as happened in the motorbikes.
That is not what I think would happen.
I am merely showing what compulsory helmet wearing has done to the motorcycling.
Skiers do not wear full face helmet and the speed is not power-assisted but is limited by gravity.
Been a few years since I last skied in Canada but helmet wearing did not catch my attention but ski patrols did. I haven't seen a Alpine resort employing ski patrols to tell skiers off if they badly behave in a resort but I did see some polices in some Italian resorts. Claims against resort owners is also rare in Europe. We also rarely have a skiing "area" and skiing is traditionally done on groomed pistes or designated trails with skiers going off piste more or less at their own risk and the resorts are not liable to their activities. May be the risk level does warrant wearing a helmet in Canada if one ski in a big area without groomed/marked pistes but skiers running into each others directions and doing the 30ft gap drops.
We now have statistics from veeeight of wearing helmet will reduce head injuries. There is more than 50% head injuries from snowboard than from Alpine skiing. So play safe and forget snowboarding?
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 12-04-07 15:25; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i dont wear a lid boarding nor for cycling.. i wear a motorbike helmet on my motorbike, they are of course a legal requirement .. if they wernt i would happilt poodle around town on a sunny day without one ,, if your really serious about protecting your bonce on the slopes wear a motorbike lid.. tho you may get sued by soemone if you hit them and your lid knocks their block off 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| saikee wrote: |
I am merely showing what compulsory helmet wearing has done to the motorcycling.
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No, you merely came out with an assumption claiming that, but were unable to factually back it up!
There is NO (that's ZERO, ZILTCH, NADA) direct link between compulsory helmet use and the performance of an internal combustion engine. If there was, Vauxhall Corsa drivers would all put on helmets instead of fog lights.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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veeeight, Do you have any figures for head injuries sustained by helmetless skiers who have been head butted by helmeted skiers?
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If the law permits it I would probably leave the helmet at home if I ride my motorbike to work but pick it up for a run down the country roads.
Wearing a helmet is to guard agsinst hitting someone or an object. There is no safety against being hit by another skier. A person is likely to sustained a higher injury when being crashed into by a skier with a helmet than one without.
A skier wearing a full face motorcycling helmet to the Class A crash Bristish Standard is obviously a lot safer than the normal open face skiing helmet but I don't see it catches on.
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| saikee wrote: |
If the law permits it I would probably leave the helmet at home if I ride my motorbike to work but pick it up for a run down the country roads.
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I don't understand this at all. Surely there's a huge chance of being knocked off your motorbike in town - cars pullign out, overtaking, etc?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suspect (by way of observation here in Whistler) that the higher incidence of head injuries amongst snowboarders is due to the terrain park, I regularly see and wince at some awful head cracks on rails, boxes, features etc.
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i seem to recall a great row on here last year about the manufacturers of these lids ramping the scare stories of not wearing one ..
..'how could you possibly let your 13 yr old ski without a lid , you nasty parent you.. buy NORTH FACE!!! or whatever..
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FAQ
