 Poster: A snowHead
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Just back from my fifth week of skiing and never had or seen any collisions on a slope. Then on one day I got hit twice by other people.
First was when going down a black slope another skier hit me at the back side, but wasn't too bad an impact as I was able to stay on my feet after being out of control for a while. When i looked round the guy that hit me was on his back sliding down the slope.
Then that afternoon on not too steep a bit of a red slope, we had stopped and I was about to go off again when I got hit from behind by a snowboarder. This time i got left in a pile on the slope. My initial reation was of rage and to go after the guy, he was on the ground a bit further down the slope and put his hand up, but thought better of it. Fortunately no bad injuries from it, bar a sore spot on my back - either a pulled muscles or spot of impact.
Does this type of thing happen often on the slopes?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never been hit, nor have I hit anyone, but I imagine it could be on the increase. Some bloke on "Airline" today (an old repeat) was hit but a skier on the first morning and ended up with a seriously broken leg (bone through skin and all that). He was uninsured and was left with a £15,000 bill to get home. Dumb_ss.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We've lost 2 instructors by being hit. Both were standing at a lift station. the first one, in Verbier, broken collar bone and concussion, thankfully she had a helmet on, hit by a skier. The second,in Val D'Isere broken leg in 2 places, hit by a boarder.
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Mmmm, just back from Kitzbuhel and I hit a skiier for the fist time in over a decade. Thing is I still think it was his fault. It was on a mogully black and we started on different sides of the entrance to a narrow shute by the time we were 4/5 down he was about three feet in front and then veered over into my line as it flatted out, I pushed him out of my way, we both stayed on our feet but both ended up shouting at each other. Him in Italian me in English.
Appartenly as I was behind him It was my fault. Though given his sudden swerve off his line he was skiing I assumed he was going he continue along that way and I could safely overtake him.
Is it my fault or should he have been aware of me right behind him?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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killian, sorry - close call - but probably your fault. Other peoples lines can be really really annoying, but the person behind has a clear advantage in being more easily able to avoid the skier in front. Rules are rules.
It is a shame we don't have rules like those in sailing where whilst the overriding duty is of all to avoid collision, there are at least rules about who turns which way in impending impacts. I have certainly been in a similar situation to your experience where two of us skiing bumps side by side crossed and hit each other because we both turned uphill to avoid each other.
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In about 70 weeks of skiing over half a lifetime I've had two collisions. One abot 20 years ago when I and another in our group turned towars each other at the same time (he was fractionally behind me and I didn't know he was there. Two days off skiing required.
Then 6 weeks ago this one .
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killian, you were at the back - your fault.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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MhicEasmuint, I collided with another skier last year, in Meribel, and my view is that it was neither of our faults, but that of two other skiers who "buzzed" us, and who caused us both to swerve - the only problem was we both swerved together. The faster skiers were part of a race club. We were skiing gently down to the lifts at the end of the day. We were running parallel to each other but the piste was wide enough, and we knew each other were there, and I had moved very slightly ahead of the other French gentleman.
The race club came blasting by, and one of them actually brushed my left arm causing me to turn right to avoid him. At the same time another skier came brushing close to the gentleman to my right, on his right, causing him to turn left to avoid him. We both collided head-on, fortunately slowly, and neither of us were hurt, and he was a true French gentleman and helped me up and was very charming and apologetic, even though it could not have been his fault. The fault clearly lies with the racers who, in my opinion, should not have been schussing fast and close to other skiers on the approach to a lift.
Now I am more experienced, I would either have sped up or slowed down to avoid running parallel to another skier, but in relatively crowded areas I am always worried about collisions.
I am also very concerned on narrow blacks or steep reds which are tricky because they have bumps or ice, because there are quite often a lot of skiers who are not competent to ski that particular run, and are unable to maintain control of their speed. In general, I am more worried about skiers than boarders, because the latter seem to just sit down if they have a problem. Many skiers seem to have an ego problem and feel they must ski down a slope that they can't ski. If I am concerned about maintaining control where there are other skiers or a collision risk, I will sideslip, or wait until the road is clear before having a go. It isn't pretty or fluent, but I don't put others at risk by trying something I'm not sure I can do.
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I don't know how I'd get on if I skied somewhere busy - I won't set off if there is anyone remotely near me and spend the whole time worrying about making sure that I don't inconvenience other slope users - I feel terrible if anyone even has to swerve to go round me (though its infinitely preferable to them ploughing straight through me) just because I'm so slow.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, that's their problem, not yours. Everyone is responsible for avoiding people below them on the slope. It's also incumbent on experienced skiers/boarders to give beginners a bit of leeway - everyone starts off being slow and nervous.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hyweljenkins,
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killian, you were at the back - your fault.
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Yes at fault. Mitigation, the other party was Italian. 
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| Spyderman wrote: |
hyweljenkins,
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killian, you were at the back - your fault.
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Yes at fault. Mitigation, the other party was Italian. |
Further mitigation - if he was a good enough skier to zipline a black mogul field he should also have been aware enough not to change lanes on someone who he knew was there.
Given some conditions I have experienced this season I am only surprised I did not see more collisions. Certainly I wouldn't like to be a nervous skier on the "crux" of the Engelberg home run for example (read only part of a long run with any pitch to it)
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I got crashed in to from behind by a skiier (i did not fall though). I was boarding on my heel on a steepish quite empty piste and did not see the skier, who I am told had loads of space but was doing these neat little turns and did not seem able or want to change his direction. I did not change direction or anything to cause the crash and my mate said he could not believe that the guy did not simply turn away to avoid me. The skier ticked me off for not riding 'more down hill'.
Also had a skiier slide in to me on his a*rse, but I saw him coming and managed to stay upright.
Also bumped into a border on a bit of off piste tree area, quite funny really becasue we were coming together from opposite sides of the run and every turn I made to avoid here she made a similar but opposite turn, we just clipped boards and sat down in the powder and laughed, no harm done.
Bad year really  !
People who speed on family/slow zones is my pet hate
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've only been hit once - by a boarder while I was boarding. Hurt a lot.
I did once bump into another skiier myself, although that was back when I was learning and we were both barely moving, but I think that collisions of that nature are compulsory for novice skiers anyway.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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told him he was a beginner and didnt know what he was doing
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No excuse at all, and I speak from first hand knowledge. As a beginner boarder, if you are approaching a collision situation, you deck it. The fact that I am now going down some pistes faster than others, and actually have just about enough skill to steer around 4 year olds and their parents, is a cause for celebration. But that's on nice wide pistes. If in doubt, deck it.....
The same should quite obviously apply to beginner skiers, but unfortunately they are often mortally petrified of ever falling over, so they totter on, hoping everyone else will get out of the way. I saw a good boarder from a chairlift the other day, doing his best to avoid a small child who was all over the place. He eventually took to the side of the piste when the child did a sudden swerve towards the edge where the boarder was overtaking. He fell quite heavily, but it was an object lesson in how to do it - kept his hands in, rolled and took it on his shoulder/hip etc. A good demonstration for me.
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Spyderman, bada-boom!
rayscoops, did you get her number.?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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In St Anton I was skiing very slowly and wanted to get over to the side of the piste and wait for the traffic to ease up a bit. It was one of the main runs down and very icy. Just before I got to the side a family set off like ducklings each behind the other. I turned as sharply uphill as I could so I would miss the girl at the back of the line. She saw me panicked and twisted her skis uphill. Our skis clipped each other and one of her's came off. If she hadn't of panicked and turned her skis our skis would not of touched. I stopped checked she was OK, put the ski back on for her and helped her up.
5 mins later the father turns up (skiing a lot faster than I was) and just after I'd set off tells me to ski slower 
As a learner it's easier said than done but the following might save you from being hit
a) Look up hill before setting off (other wise you are at fault).
b) Skiing in a line one after the other without ample space inbetween makes you a bigger target. It's expected with ski instructors but not other groups.
c) When someone ski near to you then ski predictably, it's more likely for you to get hit if you do something unexpectedly. Hold your nerve, just ski as usual.
d) When someone skis very near to you concentrate/look on where you want to go to get out of trouble, not on the other skier.
e) If a skier/boarder hits you and you are the downhill skier they are normally at fault, if you turn uphill into them it's debatable.
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I got taken out last year on a flat cat-track by someone going in the opposite direction (culprit middle aged Brit duffer (much like myself)). Very amusing actually as I saw it coming and his ski ejection was spectacular.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In legal terms the FIS rules on skiing are a reference in settling liability when collisions take place. It's as well to know them, because the skier above/behind is always responsible for avoiding a collision, unless the skier below set off without looking up:
Source: http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/rulesandpublications/fisgeneralrules/10fisrules.html
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10 FIS RULES FOR CONDUCT
1. Respect for others
A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he does not endanger or prejudice others.
2. Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding
A skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt his speed and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
3. Choice of route
A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead.
4. Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
5. Entering, starting and moving upwards
A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.
6. Stopping on the piste
Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. After a fall in such a place, a skier or snowboarder must move clear of the piste as soon as possible.
7. Climbing and descending on foot
A skier or snowboarder either climbing or descending on foot must keep to the side of the piste.
8. Respect for signs and markings
A skier or snowboarder must respect all signs and markings.
9. Assistance
At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
10. Identification
Every skier or snowboarder and witness, whether a responsible party or not, must exchange names and addresses following an accident. |
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Even if the downhill skier skis uphill?
Does this mean I can carve back up the hill and take out the skiers wearing polo necks but standing at the side of the piste without losing my no-claims bonus?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When suitable I apply the UK driving highway code on the pistes.
1) Slow down when approaching dense traffic( many skiiers) - match speed to the road (piste) conditions.
2) Be wary of learner drivers (skiiers who look inexperienced) and allow them plenty of room
3) Is it safe to over take(the skiier/boarder)? Allow plenty of room to overtake safely
4) when driving past a row of parked cars be ready to expect a child to suddenly walk out or a car door to open. On the piste this translates to be ready for stationary skiiers/boarders to suddenly set off.
so on and so forth.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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monster77
monster77
Guest
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
killian,
It is a shame we don't have rules like those in sailing where whilst the overriding duty is of all to avoid collision, there are at least rules about who turns which way in impending impacts.. |
Can you imagine the looks you would get shouting "My wind" as you headed down a busy run.
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You know it makes sense.
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PisteHead, wise words, especially
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Is it safe to over take?
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many slope users seem to think it their right to ski as fast as they want, and to squeeze past people. Sometimes you just can't pass safely. If it's busy, or the piste is narrow, we should all just be prepared to ski slowly, not blast past (especially whilst annoyingly clicking poles.... ) If the slope is full of parents going home slowly and protectively behind their little kids, just slow down and enjoy the view. One advantage of our very middle aged ski area is a general absence of boy racers (except during the French half term holidays, when we booger off and lend our apartment to unfortunates with school aged children). Generally people skiing faster are pretty competent, and the pistes are wide. I have only been involved in one collision in four seasons - a young French lad following a more competent mate down a steep but wide red slope skied into the front of my skis whilst I was making a very predictable identical set of turns. He catapulted out of his, but I just plopped gently to the ground, completely unhurt and without losing my (DIN setting 3...) skis. He was shaken, and very polite and apologetic.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
many slope users seem to think it their right to ski as fast as they want, and to squeeze past people. Sometimes you just can't pass safely. If it's busy, or the piste is narrow, we should all just be prepared to ski slowly, not blast past (especially whilst annoyingly clicking poles.... ) If the slope is full of parents going home slowly and protectively behind their little kids, just slow down and enjoy the view. |
The cororally of this is that more inexperienced, nervous skiers or parents with kids need to take reponsibility for ensuring they have the skills to get down the particular run they have chosen or else download. I am thinking specifically of many places with a single long home run or connector which would become a logjam if everyone followed the "no overtaking on a narrow run" maxim.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, rayscoops, whats with the "clicking poles"? Is this a "let me by" signal from skiers?? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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moon, yes. I'd say it's gone out of fashion though - or maybe I've speeded up!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| moon wrote: |
| pam w, rayscoops, whats with the "clicking poles"? Is this a "let me by" signal from skiers?? |
I'd say that its more of a "be aware that I'm here and will be passing" rather than a "let me past" or an indicator signal rather than a flash of full beam.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, "but there again the scrape of death noise a boarder makes behing a learner skier must be a bit off putting " OOOOHHH yes thats a defo wobbly knee moment 
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Re pole clicking I have been told (more than once) by instructors that it's just an 'announcement' i.e. 'I'm here, coming by on your right, please don't swerve into me' and as such is polite. I am not offended if someone comes past me and lets me know they are there.
Re bumps, the only ones I've had have been of the embarrasing 'you both know it's going to happen but you can't avoid it' sort when another skier and I have somehow ended up coming towards each other reletaively slowly and finally met head on. On one occasion we both grabbed each other for support and laughed about it. It helped (my enjoyment) that she was gorgeous! 
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| pam w wrote: |
PisteHead, wise words, especially
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Is it safe to over take?
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many slope users seem to think it their right to ski as fast as they want, and to squeeze past people. Sometimes you just can't pass safely. If it's busy, or the piste is narrow, we should all just be prepared to ski slowly, not blast past (especially whilst annoyingly clicking poles.... ) If the slope is full of parents going home slowly and protectively behind their little kids, just slow down and enjoy the view. One advantage of our very middle aged ski area is a general absence of boy racers (except during the French half term holidays, when we booger off and lend our apartment to unfortunates with school aged children). Generally people skiing faster are pretty competent, and the pistes are wide. I have only been involved in one collision in four seasons - a young French lad following a more competent mate down a steep but wide red slope skied into the front of my skis whilst I was making a very predictable identical set of turns. He catapulted out of his, but I just plopped gently to the ground, completely unhurt and without losing my (DIN setting 3...) skis. He was shaken, and very polite and apologetic. |
It's a bit of a judgement call. And sometimes the passing skier's judgement doesn't agree with that of the skier being passed.
I felt quite bad when I passed my mates while going down as a group last week. Some in my group likes to traverse a good part of the piste while I simply zip down a more narrow path near the edge of the piste. So, I pass one or two of them on the edge of the piste but they didn't expect anyone there! So I basically startled my mates.
No collision whatsoever. But it's a matter of expectation really. I ski as PisteHead, the same way as I drive. I tend to stay in my "lane" and only pass when *I* think it's safe. So far, I've never ran into anyone from behind. Still, startling my mates was something I didn't set out to do.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have never been hit on the slopes. Folks musn't fancy the prospect.
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Frosty the Snowman, I have but they just bounce off. 
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FAQ
Then on the way back to Flaine on a really busy piste between villages (which I hated everytime we had to go there) I got really taken out (but not hurt luckily). 50/50 that one but the boarder who wiped me apparantly didn't stop to check I was OK. 
Some lessons/instruction ? It does seem wrong, and quite frankly dangerous , that you can get on a piste and fly down it with no idea what you are doing? Do you think there are many skiiers/boarders who just go for it? Also are you allowed to ?? Dont know how it could be monitored . 
I was knocked off the piste. 
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