 Poster: A snowHead
|
This is a long one, but I am at a bit of a loss and am looking for an expert opinion. For reference, I am about 190cm, 90kg, and am happy skiing red runs reletively agressively, skiied about 10 days this year and am hoping to ski most of next season somewhere in France.
When I was in Val D'Isere I bought a pair of boots from Nevada in Tignes Le Lac (Head RS80, size 28.5, toes were touching the front of the boot when i purchased, some stretching of the shell was done on the 1st and 2nd day) and he made custom footbeds 2 days later (the kind where you stand on something that feels sorta like gel inside something, which forms around your foot, before heated footbeds are put between this device and your feet). Before I had the footbeds made, I was getting an incredible amount of pain on the balls of both feet. The footbeds seemed to help slightly, although the pain was still so bad that I would occasionally have to stop and take the boots off on the side of the piste (it was some of the worst pain I have ever felt).
After a full day with the footbeds, the pain was slightly better (I could usually ski a few runs before I had to stop and take them off), but was nowhere near comfortable and I was still occasionaly taking them off on the side of the piste they hurt so bad. The next morning the weather was pretty bad (couldn't get to Tignes), so I stopped in Surefoot in Val D'Isere, where they said the boot was completely too wide for my foot and also a full size too big (which seemed odd, as my toes were touching the front, until I flexed, when it became comfortable and they had been worn for 3 days by this point and there were still no areas where my foot was moving). The girl at Surefoot told me that the pain on the balls of my feet was from my foot shifting all around the boot and rubbing, although I could barely move my heel. This didn't seem right (and they were really trying to push their system, saying that stock liners were no good, as well as footbeds that were not made by them), so later in the day I went to Precision in Val (first of 2 trips).
I saw 3 different people at Precision (including the head bootfitter), all of whom said that the shell fit my foot well (and that the liner was a bit agressive and would probably take a week to ten days to fully pack down) and after doing a shell test that volume was not an issue at all, but that the custom made insole was not providing support under my arch when I moved from side to side, which was concentrating all of the pressure on the balls of my feet. They also looked at my foot and said that there were no dropped metatarsal heads or anything else that would be causing the pain.
They told me to go back to Nevada and see what he could do, but they thought that the footbed would need to be replaced. I went back and the bootfitter at Nevada said he doesn't like over-building the arch area, as it can lead to pain in the inner-leg, but he agreed with Precision and added some foam to the insole, which seemed to be a slight improvement (although the pain was still so bad that I would have to stop after an hour and take them off, but don't think I stopped on the side of the piste to take them off again). He also tried adding cork shims under my heels (maybe a canting adjustment?), but that caused more pain, so he took them out. Each time he did something, I would try them around the shop for about 10 minutes (now I understand why it is so important to buy next to in resort) and they never hurt in the shop, it was only when I would get on the mountian and would be in an incredible amount of pain. The Precision people had told me to stop back if I wanted a second opinion, which I did. They said adding more foam could work, but that a new footbed was still their recommedation. The link to Tignes was closed the next 2 days and I couldn't make it back to Tignes before I had to leave.
Anyone have any input on what I should do now? I will be back in Tignes for a week of skiing this July and Nevada is open, so if his solution of adding more foam seems plausable, I can stop in and he can finish fixing them for free. I will be in Geneva all summer, so a trip to Chamonix or even Sidas in Grenoble is possible (although I would rather not if I don't have to, since I would have to buy new insoles). What I am trying to avoid is another week in complete pain, especially since Nevada will probably be the only decent bootfitter open during the summer (it seems that they are the only good one in Tignes to start with). Do you think it is possibly something with my feet that I need to see a podiatrist to get examined? Is it just that I need to lose a bit of weight (I probably gained about 7kg since my ski trip last year)? Anything else you need to know about me, the boots, footbeds, etc, that will let you make a more informed judgment.
So, as you can see, not exactly what I was expecting when I bought my own boots. The control is definately better and I don't get any odd pressure spots anymore, but the pain is worse than any pair of rental boots I have ever had. Even old rental boots that didn't fit great never caused me enough pain to stop skiing and unbuckle them or take them off, other than maybe at lunch. Also, if anyone was wondering, trying to get your boots back on in the powder on the side of the piste is incredibly difficult, usually leading to snow in the boots and considering renting boots for the rest of the trip (shows how much they hurt).
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
jml, Is the pain you're experiencing like a burning sensation under the balls of the feet? If so this is usually a result of a lack of flexion in the achilles tendon. Our approach to this problem is to use the cork heel lifters as it relieves the pressure on the tendons in the base of the foot. You said the pain increased when this was tried before, was it the pain in the balls of the feet that increased or did you experience pain elsewhere with the addition of the heel lfters?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
How do you mean? Is it in a cage?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
CEM, SMALL is on his mornings off, apparently he's going skiing..........
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
David Goldsmith, whilst you where 'away' CuteZookeepers computer and log in was 'borrowed' by others in the Zoo 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, apparently....... very discriptive 
how is the weather in paradise?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
CEM, Perfect, of course........ 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, now we seem to have hijacked jml's boot thread what do you reckon he should do....chamonix, bicester, grenoble, tignes
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
CEM, I think he should take himself along to whichever of the above he is nearest to. Without seeing the foot, boot and footbed its hard to give definitive advice. From whats been said so far I would be led to believe that the footbed isn't supporting his feet properly and the shape of the boot in relation to his foot may be causing problems once the cork lifters are added.
So, one of us needs to have look
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| NAKEDZOOKEEPER wrote: |
So, one of us needs to have look |
Do you ever feel it might be useful to have CCTV inside the boot for this?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, It wasn't really a burning sensation at all, rather just intense pain. The cork lifters caused more pain in the same spot on the balls of my feet, although he also had already built up the insole so that the heel part is probably 1/2 cm high, while the part around the balls of my feet and toes is paper thin. I have never had this type of pain in rental boots, in fact before I bought boots on this trip I skiied in a pair of rental Head boots for a couple hours that were the same size, but were of a lower standard, with no real pain.
I will be in Geneva starting May 4th, so a trip to Chamonix is definately possible, although I am worrying that with the season coming to an end that I will not be able to try them out on the snow, where the pain actually occurs. Since I don't get much pain in the shop or wearing them around the house, I am a bit concerned that a trip to a bootfitter without somewhere to ski nearby would be a bit in vain. What do you think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
How tightly do you buckle your boot?
I also got new boots this season. I also opted for custom footbed. The first day skiing, my arch hurts bad. So, I backed off on the buckles (the boot fitter actually suggested that but I wasn't listening). The pain was gone and the control was still fine.
Because a well-formed footbed should craddle your feet nicely, you don't really need to crank down on the buckle as much to get the same feet-to-ski connection.
I don't know if it'll help your situation. But just a thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
jml, I belive that will be the last day this winter you'll be able to see the 'NAKEDBOOTFITTER'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
... unless you want to go and see him in the River Arve
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
jml, This problem often doesn't occur in rental or 'excessively' fitted boots because the extra space means it is possible to stand upright and relieve the pressure on the tendons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, You've progressed well young Jedi.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
jml, If you were to come visit and we were able to identify what the problem is then hopefully the trip wouldn't be in vain. At the very worst you'll probably get a few beers out of it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
abc, Started out with them all loosely tigntened. The guys at Precision said that the top two should be as tight as they would go, with the bottom 2 just finger tight (at least until the liner is packed out).
NAKEDZOOKEEPER, How late is Chamonix open for skiing? I am thinking of making a day or weekend trip out of it if I could get in a bit of skiing to try out any modifications. I know you guys are good, so it is probably worth the trip (do you work on appointments or is it just walk-in?) I am a bit worried about ending up with the B team anywhere I go, as the first guy I saw at Precision said it must be a volume issue and wanted to expand both of the boots quite a bit.
Thanks assorted zookeepers for your advice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jml I really sympathise as it sounds as if your problem is exactly the same as mine.... and I wish I had the answer but I havent!
I too have an intense ball of foot pain.. and like you say - it is not friction.
Obviously you need to check boot/shell size (but it sound as if this is probably ok and I am sure mine is)
Had loads of advice from snowheads but no joy yet.
Some options that have been suggested to me by ski instructors and that I am currently working on:
a) Bad technique - i.e. putting too much weight constantly on the balls of your feet rather than over the middle of your foot. I have got "better" over the last year - but that means I am doing steeper stuff and am often tense and am so determined to get my weight forward I often over do it! Could this be you?
b) perhaps footbeds that are not exactly right - i.e. throwing the weight too much on the front of the foot. Next season this is what I am going to try to suss out.
But at the mo I just surivive by stopping when I am in agony - taking off my boot (even at the side of the piste) - putting it back on and then getting home!!
Good luck and if you get the answer - please let us all know !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
the zookeepers definately have a point. 3 heel lifts, 3 sets of insoles and a lot of boot work didn't fix my issues, but having the back of the boot ground (by lockwoods) until I can stand upright in it did. Although whoever it was did it (colin?) made me promise to stop wearing heels so that I'd get some tendon flex back too...
If comfort is more important to you than performance it's worth a shot. I still have troubles but can now often go all day without flinging myself down and throwing the boots off.
aj xx
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jayne durham, I thought about technique, especially since the week I was there, the weather was really bad and I tended to sit back a bit too much. But, I have about a half dozen private lessons over the week and he would tell me my technique looked really good, but I was still getting pain. So, I guess technique may be a small part of it, especially in bad weather when everyone says they get some pain, but even when my technique was good, I was still in pain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
jml, Im not entirely sure how late Chamonix is open- the Compagnie du Mont Blanc aren't the most informative of operations. Currently there is enough snow around, its raining in town this evening so hopefully we're getting a bit more higher up.... If you were to get a last minute deal in the next week or two I reckon you'd be pretty unlucky not to get a ski in. Keep an eye on the webcams on www.compagniedumontblanc.com or just ask us nearer the time for our personal snow reports (although asking SZK may get a report that is a few weeks out of date )
If you were to come then it would be best to make an appointment, this way you can be guarenteed a certain amount of our time. Best to PM either me or SZK to do this...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Sore-foot's assessment appauls me. But doesn't surprise me either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
veeeight, That is why I got a second opinion, the bootfitter I bought from came well recommended on here and from the racers who were in his shop, so I did have a bit of confidence in his fitting (especially since my toes were touching and he wouldn't even try a bigger size when I asked).
Surefoot told me that a good fit means that there is space for only one finger in the back during a shell test (mine could fit at most two) and that their electronic computer measuring device said that I needed a full size smaller (and much narrower, even though I got pressure on the sides of my feet until the liner packed out). They were certian that no boots except theirs could ever be comfortable (stock liners, non-computer made insoles, etc. would never work) and that I was destined to pain forever.
NAKEDZOOKEEPER or SMALLZOOKEEPER, Hopefully the last question, until I can get a chance in May to come out to Chamonix and get them looked at by one of you. Is there a chance that this is being caused by something that couldn't be fixed by some skilled bootfitting and that I should see a doctor/podiatrist over here before I head to Geneva for the summer? Based on everything I told you, do you think this is something that I should be worried about? I do like the extra precision/control from having good fitting boots, but I would almost rather go back to rentals than deal with this pain.
Thanks again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
You'd probably rather have your feet amputated than go for that solution
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
jml,
I suspect the chances of a doctor taking you seriously if you went and told him that you have just bought some tight ski boots and you now have sore feet are just about zero. You may have better luck with a podiatrist and your foot beds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
