 Poster: A snowHead
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On our recent trip to Kaprun, we were very impressed by the ski bus service, which was really efficient, ran on time, had friendly drivers and the punters, although sometimes crowded onto the bus, were friendly.
Except on one occasion - the last day we spent on the glacier. We came down a little later than normal, and waited for the K2 bus that stopped outside our hotel. We slotted into the relatively informal queue in our place. Having missed a bus by about 10 minutes we knew we had a little while to wait, but didn't mind. There weren't many people waiting.
Then about 5 minutes before the bus was due, a bunch of folks from the Bosch CW Ketel Ski Team (identified by the name in big letters on their jackets) came along and slotted themselves in at the front of the queue. A few of their co-members were waiting behind us. However when the bus came, they pushed really hard to get on first, ignoring the fact that everybody else had been waiting longer than them. Also their comrades behind us started shoving so hard that those at the front were in danger of falling, and smaller people of getting crushed. We were being pushed off the kerb into the path of the bus, and with ski boots on, it isn't easy to keep balance. I managed to get a hand on the bus and protect an even smaller* Czech lady standing in front of myself, but it was very unpleasant. It was all down to the behaviour of these people, who were Dutch.
Part of me feels that complaining would make no difference to this bunch of arrogant people, but part of me says if you wear the company logo on your clothes, you have a responsibility to behave properly, and a small complaint might improve their behaviour in future.
I had seen some of them skiing on the glacier. A couple of them were handy skiers, but quite a few were in the "jacket open, muscle the skis round, flail the arms, snowplough some of the time, go really fast down the piste but without being in control" category.
So, should we complain to Bosch CW Ketel, presumably a Bosch outfit in the Netherlands? They didn't do their company image any good at all.
* Those who have met me know that being smaller than me is unusual, unless you are under 10 years old!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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docsquid, complain to stanton. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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docsquid, may as well complain - but you may come across a culture clash which causes incomprehension. I fear you have discovered the Austro/German queuing system.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| achilles wrote: |
| docsquid, may as well complain - but you may come across a culture clash which causes incomprehension. I fear you have discovered the Austro/German queuing system. |
Is pushing and shoving (read: trampling from the description) also part of that "Austro/German queuing system" as well?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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docsquid,
I think you should, if you can find the right place to complain to. Even if it is the Austro/German queing system (?) there is no excuse for such poor behaviour. Are you sure they were Dutch - I've never come across such behaviour from the Dutch either in Holland or any other country
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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docsquid, yes. Bosch customer relations if no-one else.
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| Quote: |
I think you should, if you can find the right place to complain to. Even if it is the Austro/German queing system (?) there is no excuse for such poor behaviour. Are you sure they were Dutch - I've never come across such behaviour from the Dutch either in Holland or any other country
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mmm not so sure. My Wife is Dutch and I have many friends who are from Holland, they are all exceptionally nice people, tolerant, polite, intelligent BUT they can't queue for toffee. Some kind of genetic change takes place as soon as two or more people try and get through the same door, possibly the red mist descends and thats it all hell breaks loose. In Holland I've held doors open for people and people often just stare at me incredulously that I hav'nt simply tried to dash in before them. I'd complain, an e-mail would take no time to fire off but I probably would'nt waste much time on it.....
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Frosty,
Maybe they know I'm a hard case from Sunderland 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman, 1 and 3 would be my favourites too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| abc wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| docsquid, may as well complain - but you may come across a culture clash which causes incomprehension. I fear you have discovered the Austro/German queuing system. |
Is pushing and shoving (read: trampling from the description) also part of that "Austro/German queuing system" as well? |
Yes. Love Austria and Germany - and have been charmed by the hospitality there. But they simply don't understand the queuing concept for buses and chairlifts, in my experience. I remember on holiday trying to sit down on a chairlift - only to find that someone had come into the same slot behind me, and had sat down on the chair first! On the same holiday I was staying with a predominantly American group. Great folk, but they could not understand the jostling involved in a lift queue - and kept complaining about it at dinner time - which became tedious.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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docsquid, you should have hit the biggest one as hard as you could, then you would either have died or got on the bus first  do not waste your time and get on with life I say
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brian
brian
Guest
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Are you sure they were Dutch - I've never come across such behaviour from the Dutch either in Holland or any other country |
Hmmm, in the L2A funicular last summer, some Dutch blokes crowded in around us. We requested they move up a little to give us a bit of breathing space and explained that my son is autistic and can get a bit anxious being squashed. The reply was that if he couldn't cope with the lift we shouldn't be taking him skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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Bloody Dutch ! Even the Dutch Bar owner in La Plagne didnt like the Dutch Holiday makers!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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docsquid, Im going to Holland in May- find the address and a rough physical description of each git and I shall seek to have a word. I will have them in tears.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Frosty the Snowman,
Or do as we did when bumped to back of the queue. we waited in for the 1st bus and couldn't get on, fair enough, we'll wait until the next one as we were pretty much the only ones left. Next bus comes along and the crowd has grown..but hey, we are in the front of the queue and position ourselves at THE bus stop. Bus arrives, doors open and these Germans come out of nowhere to jump the bus. I see red and grab this guys hat just as he is getting on board, and throw it to the back...( I might have said a few choice words as well ) he has to get off ...curses, lots of posturing...blah blah... nearly came to blows, but by that time, I didn't care much.
I think a few people appreciated it tho'
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JT, Excellent  We are too nice us Brits and rudeness of this type should be stood up against every time.
brian, Excellent self control. Chucking a hat is fine, but smashing someones face in (and i am sure you wantted to do it) is always a bad move.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow. Lots of comments. Yes, I'm sure they were Dutch, I don't speak Dutch, but have been there are recognise the language and can manage a few words, so I'm certain of their nationality. It seemed to me that all the other nationalities at least had the basics of queuing, even the Austrian/Germans. The place was full of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks and a few Russians and Brits. All of them managed to queue more or less properly (there's always one or two). Better behaved as a group than the French/Italians/Russians/Brits in the 3V earlier this year.
I'll see if I can find the right place and fire off an e-mail.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was pushed off the bus as I was stepping onto it by a big bloke behind me! He just put his arm in front of me stuck out his elbow and caught me in the face. I fell backwards onto the pavement,ski's poles scattered ,made a hell of a din .He rushed on and found himself a seat. Two French guys helped me up ,got me on the bus , asked if I was ok . (Bless) They then went and had a few choice words with the aforementioned Chappy , ( didnt know what they said as it was in fast French). I dont know if this man understood them as he said, not a word! Praps he wasnt French ,anyway Im sure he got the drift As JT, said
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I think a few people appreciated it tho'
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I have to say it shook me up a bit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Frosty the Snowman,
and they call us arrogant...priceless...!!!
And the Americans, well, saw a few in Engelberg and they just can't cope.... damn locals, damn conditions are nowhere near as good as the stuff they left back back home on their local hill that no one has never heard off. Ice, language, etc etc etc..but at least they understand the concept of a queue, so we taught them that one well.
Most continentals see a gap and its almost a point of pride to get there first...re, Italians and southern continentals at a roundabout
and the odd looks you get when you wave a pedestrian across... they almost expect you to floor it and take them out..such is the look of surpise on their faces...ha.
I'm pretty laid back about all this as mostly I am on holiday and can't be bothered, but...sometimes, they push it too far and its a big GRRRRRRRR...!!! But you can't do this with your son.....so Brian's self control showed who was the bigger man, in this respect. I'd back the Jocks against the Dutch tho'
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Well, I'm American and I nearly blew my top in Engelberg. I ended up shoving my pole into the side of a 70 year old man as he tried to pass me. We were well into the singles line, metal bars on either side, and he still tried to slide past me. I sincerely hope I caused internal damage. The man no longer deserves to live. Period.
I was on a bus in Innsbruck that nearly went into full mutiny because my fellow countrymen were so angry at the Euro's behaviour.
I usually raise a stink at the time of the offence. I've got 'and just why do you think you're better than the rest of us here' down pretty well in German.
As for complaining now, go ahead if it will make you feel better. A therapeutic exercise. But do not expect and real consequences. Even if you receive a polite email in response, be sure that nothing will be done. They probably won't understand, and if they do they won't care.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| docsquid wrote: |
| Yes, I'm sure they were Dutch, I don't speak Dutch, but have been there are recognise the language |
That will be the spittle, then. 
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no offence meant to our European cousins in general though
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rayscoops, love 'em to bits!
(not that they're my cousins - they all live in the good ol' US of A!)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rayscoops,
Love em. In fact am missing the Queens Day party in London on 28th April cos will still be travellign back from the EoSB. Had a fab time last year
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That appears to be the point, they don't understand the concept of queuing so put them straight and they see they have offended someone which MOSTLY, they don't really mean to do. Even the kids pushing their way thro' lift queues get the jist if you let them know you don't appreciate it. And the Brits know how to skate quickly through a lift queue as well...
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You know it makes sense.
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Q: How do you recognise a lone English(wo)man?
A: (S)He forms an orderly queue of one!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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GrahamN, I forget who said that communism would have worked in Britain, because we know how to form an orderly queue!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've nearly had a fist fight in the St Anton taxi queue before. And it was very satisfying.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
they don't understand the concept of queuing
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That's very true - in Italy at the airport check-in an Italian guy just wandered into the middle of the queue in front of us. My wife who is fluent in Italian (Italian parents) gave him what for. He was mortified, the Italians take it badly when they are told off, especially by a woman. He promptly went to the back of the queue.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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JT,
No, I apologised in French, don't want to let the side down 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| I've nearly had a fist fight in the St Anton taxi queue before. And it was very satisfying. |
I've come pretty close to that when trying to get onto the bus in Lech. 5pm bus back to Stanton, Shove the board on the back then run round the front, and don't get on. Nip back to the back and end up swinging from the board rack trying to get my board out before the bus departs. Oh well couple more van chaud over the road then ready for the 6pm fight..sorry queue.
board on the back then round to the front - elbows out and get stuck in - no other way of getting on board, but I felt if you can't beat em join em and be damned. Luckily having close cropped hair and a being a big lad probably helped. There were lots of people that didn't make that bus too..
Why thiey don't more frequently I don't know - unless it's all a scam to get the taxi drivers rich(er)
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There is an element of 'if you can't beat em join em' though isn't there, even if you start out with good intentions....
I remember when I was a student in London, and from being all polite and patient when I first arrived, after a while I became like a proper local, whizzing down the left hand side on the escalators on the tube, with all those signs everywhere telling you to stand on the right, I used to find myself getting all stressed if some ignorant tourist dared to stand on the left..
Cutting off the paths of encoraching skis by a well planted pole works well at lifts, though only for those in your immediate vicinity, and not the general chaos
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I had a similar experience recently on the lift up Montenvers. Those of you that know it, will know it can be a walk of death to get there. I was with a young inexperienced group whom had been blown away by the Vallee Blanche. We all crammed into our 'Bubble', followed by a 55 or so year old Frenchie with a huge rucksac, adorned with axe etc. He was bouncing around to see the view and doing all but taking out each and every eye of all others in the 'Bubble'. I tapped him on the shoulder and asked him to remove his pack until we arrived at the Train station. To which he 'Grunted' and did nothing. I asked again, he did the same. I called him a son of dubious parentage and wished Karma to act upon him next time on the Glacier and enable him to find the deepest cravasse. I than decided to enact my own revenge. At a cost of 20 odd euros, i work in a gear shop, i hitched a sling to the support strut in the lift, and clipped a Krab to the other end and then to the said rucksac. How we laughed, when he struggled to disembark the lift in time for the doors to reshut and carry him back down to the end of the Vallee. Wavey Davey" Bye bye, see ya!" 
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