When I posted the last snippet - which was probably the better bit - one or two mentioned that it was too short to give much comment on. So seeing as I was posting the Megakids on the other thread I thought I would find a bit more of me if anyone was interested - this is quite a bit longer and is me free from the influence of the instructor on the last Saturday morning.
Now - I know I'm atrocious at the top - but somehow I always am. What I want to know is can I say that I am getting any parallel turns in yet, and after two weeks of lessons - one each this year and last year should I be making better progress than I am? 's instructors and experienced folks - am I a lost cause?
Megamum,
I think the boarder at 1:35 has issues with you
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'd say they're coming - the "pizza slice" is getting much smaller, especially on the right hand turns from about 34 seconds onwards in that clip. The right turn at 34 seconds I didn't notice any pizza slice at all. You're far from being a lost cause - at the end of the day you're getting down the hill and staying up. I think you could do with a bit of a steeper slope though, and a bit more speed (less traverse) to help you carry through turns easier. The parallel should then come easier.
Megamum,
Looking good, maybe a little tense as you start your run, but as you got into your flow your skiing improved. A bit more extension at the start of the turn on your new downhill ski would help lighten the inside ski and bring the matching of the skis earlier. Well done, something to work on at MK.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nice hands.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum, once you relax and appear to stop thinking about it because you're concentrating on other things, your turns seem to get better. Nice stop at the end too! You are getting there - it takes time and patience. You have done well, given that your weeks of skiing are separated by a year. You ski with good control, which is more than many do. I can't see anything wrong with what you are doing. The suggestion about more extension is helpful, but don't get hung up about it. I've found that as you get used to sliding down a slope and not dying each time, you simply relax and the parallel turn starts to happen.
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Megamum, Well! after two weeks I would be thrilled , Im about the same level and I'v done about 8 weeks
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Thank you all for your kind and constructive comments. What's the slope at MK like - I guess steeper than that slope I've been working on - I do hope I can get down it? I've already told folks here that I'll probably spend a day there in the summer - I'll ask for B-day contributions towards the trip as its in June.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum,
MK is not steep at all, very similar to the slope in your video.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Spyderman, Phew!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Megamum, as comprex points out your hands, although a bit wayward at times, are generally wide and quite low which is very good (ie unusual!) for someone at your level. The hand position is consistent with your general posture, being upright and over your feet rather than "sitting back". You are a little "stiff" and that tenseness is evident in some turns where your shoulders tend to lean into the hill as you come round, and also in the tendency to "rush" the turns a little. You need to learn to love the fall line and loosen up (see here for some old-schoolers relaxing and imagine yourself there )
When you relax because you've reached the "end" you do a snazzy little turn to a stop - do that a bit more on the way down without actually stopping
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, I am megaimpressed! Hope I can get to that stage soon!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Let 'em run!
Don't be afraid of the fall line, and never stop turning. In other words, continue your turn uphill until you're ready for more speed, then turn downhill, but don't traverse--ever! A traverse is the surest way to kill your momentum and sap your strength. To start up from a traverse, you have to manually move into the new turn. If you link your turns instead, the previous turn provides the forces necessary to begin the next turn.
A suggestion: find a slope that has a runout with an up-slope. Then, run straight down it and up the runout to a stop. Do this until you get comfortable with more speed. Ideally, do it and begin to move a bit on your skis (hops, skips, shuffles) to get the sensation of moving at a higher rate of speed while you are moving your body, as well. Then, take that back out to the slope and use it in your skiing.
But, mostly, let 'em run. Enjoy the sensations. And remember that forces are actually your friends in skiing.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yoda, comprex, I wonder if the hands are a legacy of horse riding - I think I've made the point before that I believe the riding position and the skiing position as not dissimilar. It is good to know that at least something comes a bit naturally.
The funny thing about that little turn at the end to stop is that I can do it 10 times better in that direction than I can in the other - despite forcing myself to practice it the other way . I guess it will come in time.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, as said ....more speed. Stop polling and aim a bit more down hill
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, one of the keys to that movement is to get your legs turning within the hip sockets instead of trying to rotate your hips to move the skis. If you stand in stocking feet on a hardwood floor and rotate your feet without moving your hips, you'll get the idea. That the movement you use to turn your skis, not a movement from your shoulders or torso or pelvis. As you get that, the stop to each side will even out.
Megamum, well from where I'm looking falling off a durn great horse doing 30 mph onto solid ground is a heck of lot more scary than taking a tumble on nice soft snow from 3 in above it (if you avoid the fences of course )
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Megamum - you're far from a lost cause and there's much to be pleased with there. The key things are that you're controlling where you're going, when you're going there and your speed. Which is more than some of my more experienced ski buddies can say!
As yoda and comprex say, your posture and hands are very, very good for someone of your level. (If I were a suspicious chap I'd start wondering about your ski level )
Megamum wrote:
Now - I know I'm atrocious at the top - but somehow I always am. What I want to know is can I say that I am getting any parallel turns in yet, and after two weeks of lessons - one each this year and last year should I be making better progress than I am?
Most people's first turns are far from good. You should see mine sometimes
The turns aren't yet parallel.
I hesitate to say this, because I'm going to disagree with both ssh and yoda - both of whom are instructors, but...
...the traverse and "rushing" aren't really the problem here. (IMHO)
From what I can see, the biggest thing stopping you acheiving parallel turns is captured clearly in this frame - you're turning towards the left as we look at the picture here:
Your weight is on the inside ski when you go around a turn, rather than the outside ski.
In order for your turns to be parallel you need the inside ski to be "light", so that you can steer it. In order for it to be light it needs to have little weight on it. And in order for it to not have weight on it then the weight needs to be on the other foot - the one to the right as we look at this picture.
Ok, so that's great. So how do you acheive that?
Well, as your speed increases in skiing you'll start to feel a build up of pressure as you go around the turn. From what I can see in the video then that's already happening with you.
The key is in how you deal with that pressure.
As you go around the turn and feel pressure build up then "accept" the pressure and "settle" onto the outside (right in the picture above) leg, rather than the inside leg (left in the picture above). If you do that then you'll give the inside leg the chance to start coming parallel - which it'll usually start doing of its own accord.
Once you've got that sussed you can start worrying about losing the traverse.
(If you'd have seen me on the "bobbly concrete" today, you'll have seen hardcore traversing in action - we all do it!)
(More than happy for ssh, yoda or anyone to disagree here...)
PhillipStanton, I don't see any real disagreement - I mentioned the tendency to "lean into the hill" but didn't follow that through with more analysis as you have (and I should have done ). ( Probably also worth mentioning the dread disease of "parallelitis" now and again, but nobody ever listens when I talk about that )
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Don't look inside the turn, look downhill.
(and past the horse's ears)
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 26-03-07 23:05; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
PhillipStanton, Thank you for the analysis - that's what I like about snowheads lots of constructive comment.
Although not captured I think I do understand what you're on about with where the weight should be. There were the odd turns - on days when the snow was good! where I felt the outside ski really bite into the snow with its edge and even kick some into the air* - in fact sometimes I then cheated and slightly lifted the inside ski off the snow to more quickly move it to the parallel position (I bet that's a dreadful thing to admit to - but it seemed to help sometimes to get the inside ski round quickly) - I'll examine the video footage when I have a moment and see if there's any where DH caught me doing it.
* the biting ski generated sound to and it actually sounded like I was skiing! Does that make sense as a concept, i.e. it made the 'right' noise in terms of sounding like the skis of other more experienced skiers who also seemed to kick up some powdered surface as they went along.
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This is a really interesting and useful thread. Can someone experienced maybe find a bit of video of someone doing slow but good parallel turns and put that on Youtube plus a commentary here, with some stills like PhillipStanton, has extracted here, explaining critical parts of technique?
I was watching a Level2 lesson at Castleford the other week and as they were doing their 1st turns their arms were doing the aeroplane bit, with the downhill (outside) arm touching the thigh and the other up in the air - is this a drill to try to weight the o/side leg from early on? It was not part of my lesson at that stage.
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Quote:
but it seemed to help sometimes to get the inside ski round quickly
hmm - a BIG problem with many folk is that they do not give the inside ski time to come round properly - resulting in "Z" turns not "S" turns
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NewSkier, we were advised some years ago to avoid any drill which involved "dropping" a shoulder, although I saw the Andorran ski school doing that a couple of weeks ago. Fashions seem to come and go
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
resulting in "Z" turns not "S" turns
Oh...good analogy - instantly understood and easy to remember - Esses not Zeds.
NewSkier, I got a funny look (metaphorically) when I mentioned doing the aeroplane drill last time I did it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Yoda wrote:
Quote:
but it seemed to help sometimes to get the inside ski round quickly
hmm - a BIG problem with many folk is that they do not give the inside ski time to come round properly - resulting in "Z" turns not "S" turns
Completely agree. Glad we agree on the other point.
The airplane drill is still in "the manual", but I think is something that needs careful management because, like other drills, it introduces unwanted side effects. We were doing the "spit roast" today - which requires you to keep your hands near your pelvis - the last thing you want them.
Megamum - if the outside ski is "biting" then you're being a tad too agressive. For the turns your doing then you should think more about "riding" the outside ski around the turn.
Megamum wrote:
NewSkier, I got a funny look (metaphorically) when I mentioned doing the aeroplane drill last time I did it.
The aeroplane drill is incredibly easy to get wrong - primarily because people have a tendancy to "swoop" into the inside of the turn - just like when we were kids. Make sure that you're swooping to the outside of the turn.
NewSkier - what you really need is video of the stage(s) before parallel. I've got some very good video of BASI Trainers doing snowplough turns. I'll see if I can get it posted. (Don't expect this to be quick though!)
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
The aeroplane drill is incredibly easy to get wrong
I use that drill, I get the 'wings' parallel to the slope, so it's always the downhill arm lower. Good for creating some angle at the hip too.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
[quote="Spyderman"]
Quote:
so it's always the downhill arm lower. Good for creating some angle at the hip too.
I am by no means an expert, like so many on here giving good advice-- but I'd like to add a small tip I got some years ago from an Ali Ross video:
"If you think of touching your boot on the downhill leg--especially as you get onto steeper slopes, you seem to get into a good position with your arm lower, and your hip at an angle.."
I do always use this...and it works for me!
MEGAMUM, you're doing great for only two weeks of skiing!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Julieanne, I would suggest touching the outside ski in the turn as a drill, not the downhill one.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
PhillipStanton, we do disagree on cause and effect. I do not like to force a lot of movement at those speeds, believing that the forces produced and the design of the skis will do most of the work. You certainly can move out over that outside ski, but I'd rather see that happen as a result, not a cause.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ssh wrote:
PhillipStanton, we do disagree on cause and effect. I do not like to force a lot of movement at those speeds, believing that the forces produced and the design of the skis will do most of the work. You certainly can move out over that outside ski, but I'd rather see that happen as a result, not a cause.
I don't think there's too much disagreement ssh - although teaching systems, and personal preferences for teaching, do vary. And I'll be the first to acknowledge that I've just come through the system - so am a child of that system.
Any movementshould react to the forces. And, yes, the forces and skis will do most of the work.
Megamum seems to be experiencing and reacting to the forces. If she were to remain in a neutral stance in the turn then the forces would push her over the outside. But being on the inside of the turn will prevent the inside ski coming around (IMHO).
I'm genuinely happy to discuss and understand viewpoints. I too am continuing to learn.
(Although, apologies, I'm away ski touring for a couple of days so can't respond until Thursday.)
"Megamum - in fact sometimes I then cheated and slightly lifted the inside ski off the snow to more quickly move it to the parallel position (I bet that's a dreadful thing to admit to - but it seemed to help sometimes to get the inside ski round quickly)
I saw someone at Castleford (yes I spend ages watching from the bar with my post-ski coffee, trying to learn from others' good/bad examples!) apparently practising this as a technique. First he was going down the slope from half way completely straight, lifting each foot in turn, then he would come down doing turns, deliberately lifting the inside foot as it turned.
When I mentioned it in casual discussion to an experienced friend and an instructor she was chatting to, they said it was an old technique that some still teach but that I shouldn't bother about trying to do it. It made me think though, and when I next tried turning I noticed, in those that went well, that the inside ski did turn round a lot easier if I consciously reduce the weight on it by lifting my knee just a fraction.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ssh wrote:
Julieanne, I would suggest touching the outside ski in the turn as a drill, not the downhill one.
Don't know if anyone else finds this but, being a bear of little brain, I always think in terms of (new/old) uphill and downhill ski, not inside and outside, because uphill/downhill is perfectly obvious to me but I always have to think which exactly is the inside/outside ski. Likewise, I realise the term isn't used much now, but counter-rotation always "speaks" to me in that I immediately know what is meant. Flex is another one on which I have a mental block - I have to think "bend" (and I'm a professional linguist ). I guess it's whatever word rings the bell with the particular individual
I think that it is much better to focus on what the outside ski is/should be doing, and the inside ski will look after itself. In most circumstances it is the outside ski that does most of the work of steering you around the curve, so that is the one which you should be most concerned about. In my limited experience I think new skiers pay far too much attention to getting the inside ski "parallel" when it would be much better for them to have a solid snowplough with which they are confident to increase their speed until the point at which the inside ski instinctively parallels the outside ski.
eng_ch, how do you cope with situations when the downhill ski is initially the inside ski, then becomes the uphill ski as you follow the curve around? Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms depending on where you are in the turn, whereas inside and outside skis are always absolute terms no matter what stage of the turn you are in.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Such good advice 's I have learned such a lot this lovely Tuesday Morning. I read and re-read these posts and they realy are helpful. I cant wait to put some of these ideas into practice Only 24 days to go SSH "In other words, continue your turn uphill until you're ready for more speed, then turn downhill, but don't traverse--ever!" I find I traverse too far and sometimes go from one side of the Piste to the other ,cos I cant seem to then get a turn in, I feel I have to force myself ! Either that or hit a tree . YODA , as Megamum says S not Z is a good thing to have in your head as a reminder.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Can I ask how you Lassoo just a little bit of the previous Post ??? Or do you use all of it and edit by deleting ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
ssh, of course--OUTSIDE is a better term for ski/boot etc
I do find simple tips one picks up from various instructors at various stages of one's skiing evoution (is that a good word? ) can be a huge help-- and so become good habits....
I personally found that I needed lots of re-instruction about my bad habit of pole position, too low or too far back---until an instructor/friend recently realized my poles were too long and he adjusted them for me by cutting them down to the right length for my height. From then on, I think I am better at pole planting and position---though it's a while since I've seen myself on video...Hope to make it to the EoSB!
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moon, that's what I do--- about using quotes-- use all of it--- then delete what is not relevant!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
's instructors and experienced folks - am I a lost cause?
(see 
)
. I guess it will come in time.
)
)
). I guess it's whatever word rings the bell with the particular individual