Getting a refund from a tour op....

A snowHead

Afternoon all,

I could do with some advice on the best way to claim a refund from a tour op. I suppose a bit of background is needed first...

Back at the end of Januray, myself and 5 other mates went on a week long snow boading trip to Flaine. We booked a last minute, allocated on arrival deal that consisted of 2, 5 bed apartments and we were pretty sure that based on this description and other deals on the net at the time that we would be staying in the Residence Du Flaine Foret. (I may have got the spelling wrong there!. As we were effectively booking 10 beds we each paid a £70 supplement for under occupency, but we were happy with having 2 apartments as half the group were smokers and we could stay away from them!. Our booking details confirmed the fact that we had booked 10 beds in 2 seperate apartments.

Anyway, when we get the resort, we find that we are not in the the apartments that we thought, but in a single room with 6 beds. We managed to find the rep and explained the situation and after 2 hours of faffing about at the tourist office type place, they decided that the tour op had called us the week before and we agreed that we were happy with the change of location...this was un-true.no-one had spoken with us since the booking. No other apartments were available.

We decided that we'd just lump it with the single apartment ( i got stuck with the sofa bed!) and we'd claim the £70 supplement back when we got home. ( we filled out a complaints form at the time).

so, 4 weeks weeks have now passed and we've after making the initial claim on the Monday we have got back, we have been offered £100 voucher (between us). Which I think is unacceptable.

Do you think we have a valid claim to a £70 cash refund? if so, what tactics should we use?...Is there anyone we should speak to eg ABTA etc...or maybe go the small claims route?...any advice would be grateful. I know £70 doesn;t sound a lot, but it could pay for our flights for our next holiday!

A snowHead

joydivision, I'm in the middle of a comparable claim. Have written off and am waiting for an initial response.

I paid £196 single supplement on a £349 holiday (including flights and accomodation). The supplement was for "Double room for single occupancy". I stayed in a tiny single room which was 8 feet by 5 feet. This was the only single room in the hotel, which explains why there was no "single room for single" supplement available.

My argument is:
- I've paid for a double room and got a single.
- As I've paid for something and not received it a cash refund is appropriate.
- I stated that a refund of £144 to £196 would be an acceptable outcome. I came up with this rather random sounding figure by looking through the tour ops brochure at a handful of "single supplements for single rooms" and noting that the spread of costs was 0->15% of the total holiday cost.

So in response to your question....I think you have a valid claim. I think we should certainly get the same outcomes from our claims so I will let you know how I get on.

In your position I would go back to the tour op initially, but perhaps making a case for the amount of money you believe is due (as I've tried to do). Perhaps cost up what you received and request the difference. I'm sure I've read other snowHead

's accounts of getting better tour-op settlements by rejecting a first offer.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

joydivision, Prima facie , you have a valid case. I assume all invoices and receipts tie up with what you have said, including original advert.

Who did you book with , the TO or an agent? If the Tour Op then you are probably best going through ATOL. This willl make it easier - dealing with both agent and operator may get in a finger-pointing exercise about who said what ..... Advise them that you will be contacting 'Watchdog' and all the relevant industry organisations and Advertising/ Trading Standards if there isn't an immediate refund as they misrepresented / obtained through deception/ lied ( if a Big Name this will get their attention) ! Was there any telephone con the week before as mentioned - did you get a name ?

Feel free to PM details of the company if you like and I'll see what I know about them .. although you might as well 'name-and-shame' here!

You need to Login to know who's really who.

joydivision,

sorry to hear about your troubles.

I think you definitley have a case for getting your under occupancy supplement back.

If your invoice says you booked 2 x 5 bed apartments, then that's what you shoudl have got in which case I'd push for compensation in addition, if it doesn't (i.e. says "accomodation for 6) then it will be more tricky (just noticed you have said your booking details does confirm).

Ask if the tour operator has a tape of the call they say they made to you then they could prove they called you (someone). If they don't have a tape then how than they prove it? Who did they speak to? They must have someones name otherwise how do they know they were speaking to the right people?

Allocation on arrival does mean that you just have to wait and see what you get (although it shoudl be clear the type of accomodation of have booked), you sometimes get lucky and get higher spec than you were expecting.

Speak to ABTA first, small claims is the next step if they cannot get you your refund.

Good Luck

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

joydivision, I think you have a good chance of getting said refund, but as a word of warning never ever assume you're getting anything out of the brochure! Most tour ops source random rooms in (sometimes dodgy) places that would never get in the brochure. Also with regards to proving it- they record everything- if they "cant find it" then they havent got it.

You'll need to Register first of course.

When on refunds has anyone got a refund on their ski pack that they didn't used because of injury or mistake in booking it in the first place? My brother told me today he booked a ski pack for me but I don't want it, haven't contacted the travel agent yet.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Peter Ross,

When do you go? It might (probably will) be regarded as a change of booking so they will charge a fee. What do the T&Cs say?

After all it is free

Peter Ross, who did you book with?

I go at the weekend, I haven't seen any terms and conditions although I see www.skiset.com refund up to 3 days before departure.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

joydivision, as I read your first post you had paid for 2x5 bed apts; presumably all that was to be allocated at the TOs choice was where those 2x5 beds were. If that is the case, it seems t ome that you should be refunded more than the supplement, since you were only given 1x5 (OK, 6) bed apt.

Good luck. Take home message has to be; don't use TOs if you don't have to.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

joydivision, All contact regards change of T+C of the contract will be documented and have to be in writting. I'd say you should push for more!

snow reports

joydivision, the fact that they've offered you anything means that they are expecting to compensate you and £100 is merely their opening bid. Tell them you want cash, not vouchers, and hang on for twice as much.

Call ABTA.

They are a trade body that can settle disputes, if you went with an ABTA-bonded firm.

You know it makes sense.

Waht's wrong with making a small-claims court claim - after giving the TO a final chance, with the threat of court action?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

blimey, what a response, thanks for all the replies guys (and gals)...its seems like we have a good case then.

I'll try and respond in a bit more detail when I get home from work, but in answer to some of your questions:

Agenterre, yes the invoice says that we booked 2 x 5 bed apartments and we booked through the Travel Agent ( Thomas Cook). So far we have only had communication with Ingams...and there was no call made to us before we went ( as the claimed).It's my mate who actually booked it, so he's dealing with the complaint. I'm going to get a bit more involved now!

Nadenoodlee, We didn't really assume we would be in those apartments, it was just a process of elimination, it was the only place left in Flaine that week to be offering 5 bed apartments....also, we didn't mind not getting in there, but it was the fact that we paid for 10 beds and 2 apartments, and got 6 beds in one apartment.

richmond, That pretty much sums up our arguement.....actually, the only reason we went with a tour op was because it was last minute after we cancelled out DIY trip to Andorra due to lack of snow. We haven't used a tour op for the previous 6 trips...I wonder why! Mad

I'll try and keep you all updated with my progress....going by what some of you said, we might push for more! Very Happy

A snowHead

joydivision, OK; that information helps a lot.

I can see no point in going through Cooks' as they will just say they acted as agents - and based upon what you have said there is no case of misrepresentation.

Inghams ( part of Hotelplan and Migros ( Swiss food chain!!) IIRC) are also a big name so a Watchdog and/or Small claims threat and talking to the boss will help. They have admitted something was wrong .. now just the price is under dispute

( FWIW - I bet this says 'Client contacted' on their files, they have good systems there.. someone just didn't do what they said they did! ) .. Get the name of the person ( they WILL know who) and say that the individual will be expected to provide evidence to Small Claims. Do stick at it though as you will get there - I suspect it will however take a very long time! )

Edit - Who did they say contacted you TC or Inghams ??

A snowHead

It wasn't Inghams was it? The only reason I ask is that SEVEN of us were away and I've complained about several things.
Their openning bid of compensation was - £100.
Split between seven of us that's a sum total of just over £14 each.
In vouchers! (Actually the voucher thing isn't a problem because we've already booked for next year with them)

The letter arrived at the end of last week, so I've just finished drafting a 'go away and think about it. The holiday cost £7000, so I don't think £100 will cut it!' letter to put in the post. I'll let you know how I get on.

Monarch haven't offered anything yet!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I persoanlly think you should push for more than your £70 each.

If they had appologised and refunded the supplement in full upon your first raising the issue in resort I would have been inclined to leave it at that in the interests of fairness and goodwill.

However, they have fobbed you off not once but twice. Dishonesty like their phone-call story really riles me and, after that, the offer of a £100 voucher is just a bit insulting (IMO).
You had a very good reason for making the booking that you did (the smoking thing) and they have not provided you with what you paid for. I think that on those grounds you should really get a full refund.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Agenterre,

You'll need to Register first of course.

alex_heney, I thought you were a lawyer wink

Time to brush up on agency law Shocked

??

Seriously , think you'll find that the contract is with the provider in this case, they were acting as agents of Inghams ... willing to learn how it can be done though !

edit - actually thinking about it TC might have bought it in ( although unlikely) , I assumed that was clear in the previous post Embarassed

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

joydivision, Give them one more chance only to refund what you want and tell them you will refer matter to your solicitor if not willing to settle. On bottom of letter, put "cc" and name of a local firm of solicitors along with ABTA contact. You can either send a copy of the letter to the solicitor and ABTA, or just give the impression that's what you're doing. They may well then settle imediately to avoid the hassle. This has worked for me with insurance claims. If they still refuse to settle, then either refer the matter to a solicitor and ABTA to check if you have a valid claim OR go straight here https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp and fill in an on-line claim form for the small claims court.

alex_heney, how do you get "over-occupancy" out of that?
I mean, if you have a 2 bed room with 1 person in it, then there is under occupancy. If there is 2 people in it, it is not over-occupancy!
(oh, and when did 70 become 75?) 6x70 = 420, 6x75 (your figures) = 450.

==========================================================

joydivision, did you book 10 beds, or did you book 6?
I mean, you say there were 6 of you, but then you talk about booking 2x5 beds?
I'm just trying to understand what you actually booked.
Check your booking. Does it say 10 rooms or 6?
If you booked 6xsingles (i.e. 6 rooms, paying single supplement on each), that may explain their action, and under those circumstances what they would owe would be 2x single supplement refunds, i.e. 140GBP.

So, the first thing to do, before going after their blood, is to check what is on your booking - not what you sent them, but what they sent you. After that, work out the difference between what is on that and what you got. Then go for it!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I'm with alex_heney on asking the max. Then you may settle for just the cash refund of the single's supplement.

Personally, I never accept voucher in place of cash because it limits my choice for the next trip. And since the TA gets a profit for every penny you pay, cash of voucher, they come off ahead. But since you're going with them again next year anyway, you should get the full VALUE of the cash in voucher, which should be (10-20%?) higher than the cash amount.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

snow reports

Wear The Fox Hat,

alex_heney, Wow, mega impressed, I'd lose loads of pub arguments with you wink

.. but suspect that disclosure doesn't apply here. Inghams have already accepted something is 'wrong' and they have not said 'mis-sold', and would appear to have accepted the 'booking' ...

You know it makes sense.

Nadenoodlee, I don't know the TO, it's in Ireland and my brother booked the ski pack, I think he's getting the tickets today or tomorrow so I'll know more when I read the terms and conditions.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Just a quick update, We've decided to try and go for a full refund!...why not, you don't get if you don't ask!

Wear The Fox Hat, we booked 10 beds (2 x 5) and paid a total of £420 pounds in supplements. The booking confirms this.

Also, my mate who booked the holiday says that the T&Cs say something about a full refund if they change the holiday within 21days of the departure date. We need to confirm that exact wording of this though.

Going by what has been said on here I think we've got a decent chance of getting at least some money back, so we'll push for as much as possible.

I'll keep you updated with what happens.

thanks again,
Richard.

A snowHead

joydivision, excellent! If you've got it in writing, then it's hard for them to argue against!

Help!!

Getting a refund from a tour op....

snowHeads Forum Index >>> The Piste